Topics

mails not getting through -- only to me


Frank Lekens
 

A weird thing is happening to my subscriptions on several Groups on Group.io (most of which I'm not the moderator of): I simply don't receive any e-mails anymore.

The last messages I received in my e-mail inbox where from yesterday afternoon around 13.00 or 14.00 (Central European Time). When I go to "Most Recent Successful Delivery" I see that listed. There's nothing under "bounce' and the last  "Most Recent Unsuccessful Attempt" is always a lot older.

Yet I haven't received *any* e-mails from any of the lists since yesterday afternoon. My settings have *not* changed from individual e-mail to digest or anything else. I just don't get the e-mails. (There are new messages, of course, as I've checked on the message-pages for those groups.)

What can be causing this? (I've read references to tags somewhere on this group, but I never use tags nor do the people in the few groups I follow, as far as I'm aware.)

Oh, also: I *can* still send messages to the groups from my e-mail account. So I'm not blocked or anything. It's just that nothing gets through to me. (And it looks like I'm the only one at least on the lists I'm subscribing too. Unless of course we don't hear from the others because they don't bother to check the website...)

 


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:22 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
My settings have *not* changed from individual e-mail to digest or anything else. I just don't get the e-mails.
Does that mean that you haven't changed the settings, or that you have gone and checked that they are as they should be?

Next thing... have you checked your mail provider's spam box (assuming that it isn't forwarded to your email client) to make sure that the messages haven't been diverted there for some reason?

Chris


Frank Lekens
 

As to the first: both. I never changed any settings, and I checked them before posted this message. (I've also considered the possibility of someone hacking into the account since last afternoon and changing the settings; but I *still* don't receive any e-mails now, after having checked the settings -- and, incidentally, having changed my groups.io password).

I use a dedicated mailbox for all of these groups (and for next to nothing else), and regular e-mails (from my own account) still do get through. Nothing seems to be wrong there. The mailbox's spambox is entirely empty.


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 01:00 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:22 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
My settings have *not* changed from individual e-mail to digest or anything else. I just don't get the e-mails.
Does that mean that you haven't changed the settings, or that you have gone and checked that they are as they should be?

Next thing... have you checked your mail provider's spam box (assuming that it isn't forwarded to your email client) to make sure that the messages haven't been diverted there for some reason?

Chris


Frank Lekens
 

Let me add this info: I hear that on one of the groups there is at least one other member that seems to have the same problem, and she has the same ISP I have (xs4all). However, other users from the same ISP have already reported they had no problems. 
Also, I'd expect to see a bounce if the ISP is bouncing it. 
(If I hear from my ISP -- I've put out a question via Usenet -- I'll report back.)



On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 02:08 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

As to the first: both. I never changed any settings, and I checked them before posted this message. (I've also considered the possibility of someone hacking into the account since last afternoon and changing the settings; but I *still* don't receive any e-mails now, after having checked the settings -- and, incidentally, having changed my groups.io password).

I use a dedicated mailbox for all of these groups (and for next to nothing else), and regular e-mails (from my own account) still do get through. Nothing seems to be wrong there. The mailbox's spambox is entirely empty.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 01:00 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:22 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
My settings have *not* changed from individual e-mail to digest or anything else. I just don't get the e-mails.
Does that mean that you haven't changed the settings, or that you have gone and checked that they are as they should be?

Next thing... have you checked your mail provider's spam box (assuming that it isn't forwarded to your email client) to make sure that the messages haven't been diverted there for some reason?

Chris


Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:11 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
Let me add this info: I hear that on one of the groups there is at least one other member that seems to have the same problem, and she has the same ISP I have (xs4all). However, other users from the same ISP have already reported they had no problems. 
Frank -- Peculiar. Have you checked your "recent bounces" page at https://groups.io/account?page=bounces ?  

Another thing that sometimes happens is a mail filter you set up a long time ago to reject spam of some kind is now inadvertently deleting group messages (typically all messages of one topic). You might want to check for that, too.

Also, I'd expect to see a bounce if the ISP is bouncing it. 
A bounce will come back to your inbox if groups.io rejects a message you sent. A bounce will not come back to your inbox if xs4all is bouncing groups.io messages. You have to check that online.

(If I hear from my ISP -- I've put out a question via Usenet -- I'll report back.)
It could be that xs4all has groups.io blacklisted. If so, any report from you (to the effect that groups.io is a legitimate vendor of group email services) should help to lift the blacklist.

The peculiar part is that some folks who are using the same email provider aren't reporting the problem.
 
Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Frank Lekens
 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 06:04 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:11 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
Let me add this info: I hear that on one of the groups there is at least one other member that seems to have the same problem, and she has the same ISP I have (xs4all). However, other users from the same ISP have already reported they had no problems. 
Frank -- Peculiar. Have you checked your "recent bounces" page at https://groups.io/account?page=bounces ?  
The page is empty.

Another thing that sometimes happens is a mail filter you set up a long time ago to reject spam of some kind is now inadvertently deleting group messages (typically all messages of one topic). You might want to check for that, too.
I have, but I haven't set up any filters. I did have filters in Thunderbird (to sort the mails of the groups into separate folders for each group), but I've disabled all of those in the course of this afternoon, and messages sent since have not arrived. In fact, I know the problem can't be on that end, since as I say, in the email delivery history for my account on each group it lists no message later than yesterday afternoon 14.30 (CET).

Also, I'd expect to see a bounce if the ISP is bouncing it. 
A bounce will come back to your inbox if groups.io rejects a message you sent. A bounce will not come back to your inbox if xs4all is bouncing groups.io messages. You have to check that online.

(If I hear from my ISP -- I've put out a question via Usenet -- I'll report back.)
It could be that xs4all has groups.io blacklisted. If so, any report from you (to the effect that groups.io is a legitimate vendor of group email services) should help to lift the blacklist.

The peculiar part is that some folks who are using the same email provider aren't reporting the problem.
 
Regards,
Bruce
Indeed that is strange. Also, someone with another ISP reported having some problems with one group yesterday, because, he said, the 'from" address of all the e-mails in the group had changed to <group name>@groups.io instead of the actual sender. He said everything was back to normal for him now .But I'm not sure what that was about; just reporting in case it rings a bell for someone. If I find the time I'll try and e-mail my ISP to see whether they've blacklisted anything anywhere. But they certainly don't seem to have done so across the board.


Frank Lekens
 

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

The headers seem to indicate, to me, that the delay is on the side of groups.io, not my provider.
I wonder what's wrong.

This is the header:

Return-Path: <bounce+18720+11440+1033320+2603612@groups.io>

Delivered-To: fmlijst

Received: from imapdirector4.xs4all.net ([194.109.24.72])

    by userimap8.xs4all.net with LMTP

    id +EIAKeb3ZF//FwAA7vd3+w

    (envelope-from <bounce+18720+11440+1033320+2603612@groups.io>)

    for <mymailboxname>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:09:42 +0200

Received: from mxdrop301.xs4all.net ([194.109.24.72])

    (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))

    by imapdirector4.xs4all.net with LMTPS

    id QO24KOb3ZF8oBQAArPMgOg

    (envelope-from <bounce+18720+11440+1033320+2603612@groups.io>)

    for <<myalias>@xs4all.nl>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:09:42 +0200

Authentication-Results: xs4all.nl; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=groups.io;

    dkim=pass header.d=groups.io; dmarc=fail header.from=gmail.com

Received: from web01.groups.io (web01.groups.io [66.175.222.12])

    by mxdrop301.xs4all.net (8.14.9/8.14.9/Debian-xs4all~5) with ESMTP id 08II9dIZ015567

    (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO)

    for <<myalias>@xs4all.nl>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:09:41 +0200

X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 with SMTP id rKqsYY1034655x2vTBFDLvcY; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:09:38 -0700






On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 06:53 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 06:04 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:11 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
Let me add this info: I hear that on one of the groups there is at least one other member that seems to have the same problem, and she has the same ISP I have (xs4all). However, other users from the same ISP have already reported they had no problems. 
Frank -- Peculiar. Have you checked your "recent bounces" page at https://groups.io/account?page=bounces ?  
The page is empty.

Another thing that sometimes happens is a mail filter you set up a long time ago to reject spam of some kind is now inadvertently deleting group messages (typically all messages of one topic). You might want to check for that, too.
I have, but I haven't set up any filters. I did have filters in Thunderbird (to sort the mails of the groups into separate folders for each group), but I've disabled all of those in the course of this afternoon, and messages sent since have not arrived. In fact, I know the problem can't be on that end, since as I say, in the email delivery history for my account on each group it lists no message later than yesterday afternoon 14.30 (CET).

Also, I'd expect to see a bounce if the ISP is bouncing it. 
A bounce will come back to your inbox if groups.io rejects a message you sent. A bounce will not come back to your inbox if xs4all is bouncing groups.io messages. You have to check that online.

(If I hear from my ISP -- I've put out a question via Usenet -- I'll report back.)
It could be that xs4all has groups.io blacklisted. If so, any report from you (to the effect that groups.io is a legitimate vendor of group email services) should help to lift the blacklist.

The peculiar part is that some folks who are using the same email provider aren't reporting the problem.
 
Regards,
Bruce
Indeed that is strange. Also, someone with another ISP reported having some problems with one group yesterday, because, he said, the 'from" address of all the e-mails in the group had changed to <group name>@groups.io instead of the actual sender. He said everything was back to normal for him now .But I'm not sure what that was about; just reporting in case it rings a bell for someone. If I find the time I'll try and e-mail my ISP to see whether they've blacklisted anything anywhere. But they certainly don't seem to have done so across the board.


Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 04:19 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

Yep, that's odd.

If you were set up to receive emails from GMF, I might be able to use that as a basis for troubleshooting. But since you're on No Email here, my hands are kinda tied.

Glad things are beginning to resolve in some fashion.

The headers seem to indicate, to me, that the delay is on the side of groups.io, not my provider.
I wonder what's wrong.

I can't make a lot of sense of it. If groups.io was having delivery issues I'd think more people would be reporting it, as they did two weeks ago (https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/76651730).

The header does say it was sent by "bounce+nmber+nmber @groups.io." On that basis my guess is that this message experienced a "soft bounce" and eventually arrived at your inbox via a retry somewhere down the line. This has been occasionally been reported to happen with other providers, but xs4all doesn't seem to have any such history.

Anyway, hopefully you'll soon experience a flood of delayed emails.

Regards,
Bruce


Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Frank Lekens
 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 04:19 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

Yep, that's odd.

If you were set up to receive emails from GMF, I might be able to use that as a basis for troubleshooting. But since you're on No Email here, my hands are kinda tied.

Glad things are beginning to resolve in some fashion.

They are trickling in very slowly. So far I've received about three or four only.

I have changed my setting for this group to receive individual e-mails now. No need *for me* to fear a barrage of e-mails flooding my mailbox, after all... :-)


Frank Lekens
 

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:25 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 04:19 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

Yep, that's odd.

If you were set up to receive emails from GMF, I might be able to use that as a basis for troubleshooting. But since you're on No Email here, my hands are kinda tied.

Glad things are beginning to resolve in some fashion.

They are trickling in very slowly. So far I've received about three or four only.

I have changed my setting for this group to receive individual e-mails now. No need *for me* to fear a barrage of e-mails flooding my mailbox, after all... :-)

And no message gets through. (Yesterday neither; I hadn't set it to 'no e-mail' right at the start, I think some messages were exchanged before I did that, but I've never received any e-mail from this group whatsoever. So far.)

Under "email delivery history" it says "none" for each category for me. If there isn't something wrong with the groups.io mail handling, I don't know what it can be.


Frank Lekens
 

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:53 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:25 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 04:19 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

Yep, that's odd.

If you were set up to receive emails from GMF, I might be able to use that as a basis for troubleshooting. But since you're on No Email here, my hands are kinda tied.

Glad things are beginning to resolve in some fashion.

They are trickling in very slowly. So far I've received about three or four only.

I have changed my setting for this group to receive individual e-mails now. No need *for me* to fear a barrage of e-mails flooding my mailbox, after all... :-)

And no message gets through. (Yesterday neither; I hadn't set it to 'no e-mail' right at the start, I think some messages were exchanged before I did that, but I've never received any e-mail from this group whatsoever. So far.)

Under "email delivery history" it says "none" for each category for me. If there isn't something wrong with the groups.io mail handling, I don't know what it can be.

And let me add that I am pretty sure I am not the only one. But some of the groups I am in only have a medium to low volume of traffic, so in many cases people won't even be aware that e-mails don't reach them or only do so with an immense delay.

Still, it's not really conducive to having an online discussion if ever there is something to discuss.


Frank Lekens
 

Nobody has any explanation for this? I'm on "individual mail" for several lists, but nothing gets through since Thursday (and the four or five messages that did get through had an immense delay, seemingly originating at groups.io). How can one user's account (but who knows how many more) suddenly be frozen like this?

How does Groups.io work in terms of support, anyway? Is there a helpdesk, a support group, other than this one? Who takes care of the technical side of things? What to do? Should I just give up on Groups.io?

I mean, it's really weird: for this group itself also, my "email delivery history" says "No email deliveries" and "no bounces", even though I've changed my settings to "individual mail" sinds yesterday morning (CET). Surely that's not normal? What's going on here?


On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 02:40 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:53 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:25 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 04:19 PM, Frank Lekens wrote:

Well, it looks as though the message might now start to trickle in -- the backlog since yesterday.

I suddenly received one message dated yesterday 15:50 (it arrived in my mailbox today at 20.09).

Yep, that's odd.

If you were set up to receive emails from GMF, I might be able to use that as a basis for troubleshooting. But since you're on No Email here, my hands are kinda tied.

Glad things are beginning to resolve in some fashion.

They are trickling in very slowly. So far I've received about three or four only.

I have changed my setting for this group to receive individual e-mails now. No need *for me* to fear a barrage of e-mails flooding my mailbox, after all... :-)

And no message gets through. (Yesterday neither; I hadn't set it to 'no e-mail' right at the start, I think some messages were exchanged before I did that, but I've never received any e-mail from this group whatsoever. So far.)

Under "email delivery history" it says "none" for each category for me. If there isn't something wrong with the groups.io mail handling, I don't know what it can be.

And let me add that I am pretty sure I am not the only one. But some of the groups I am in only have a medium to low volume of traffic, so in many cases people won't even be aware that e-mails don't reach them or only do so with an immense delay.

Still, it's not really conducive to having an online discussion if ever there is something to discuss.


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 11:18 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
How does Groups.io work in terms of support, anyway? Is there a helpdesk,<snip>
Yes; try support@groups.io

a support group, other than this one?
This is a peer to peer group with no official standing. There is also this group: https://groups.io/g/Group_Help

Who takes care of the technical side of things?
Support, as detailed above.

What to do?
Be patient in the first instance,and perhaps try to keep this topic in a single thread rather than the two it has become.

Should I just give up on Groups.io?

No.

Chris


Duane
 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 05:18 AM, Frank Lekens wrote:
Nobody has any explanation for this?
I did notice one unusual thing about your subscription to GMF, you have multiple aliases.  That shouldn't make any difference as far as message delivery, but may be something that isn't as well tested as some other features.  Since emails should only be delivered to the main address, there may be a glitch that's causing nothing to be sent to any of the addresses.  If it's not too much trouble for you, you could try removing those aliases temporarily to see if your email delivery resumes.  If it does, then a bug report on the beta group should get Mark's attention and get it fixed.  Actually, I'd try removing one every few hours to see if it's because there are so many (some sort of limit that's undocumented, leading to the problem).

Duane (GMF Moderator)


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 01:02 PM, Duane wrote:
I did notice one unusual thing about your subscription to GMF, you have multiple aliases.
I cannot resist the temptation to ask why. And have you done the same with other groups?

Chris


Duane
 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 07:47 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
And have you done the same with other groups?
Aliases apply to the account, so are effective across all groups.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Frank Lekens
 

As to the two topics: I've only discussed this thread (forcibly) on the website and I'm not aware of it having split into two topics, I always click on the single discussion.and everything is displayed in one single thread here for me. Unless you're referring to some other thread I'm not aware of.


As to the aliases: I still have them because I used those in the Yahoo incarnation of the lists I subscribe to. I no longer use them, and in any case they would pertain only to my *sending* messages to groups. As far as I can see I can only use one e-mail address to receive mail on in Groups.io, and that's what I do now. 

Also, I've just heard from another member of one of these mailing lists that she also didn't receive an a-mail that was sent today. And I am certain she doesn't use any aliases, so I don't think that's where the problem is. (I'll delete them anyway, since they're no longer of any particular use to me anymore.)


What she does have in common is our ISP, xs4all. Now the headers I've quoted here do seem suggest the delay of the few messages that finally did get through to me after Thursday last originated at groups.io, not my ISP. But of course it's still possible something goes wrong some of the time in the communication between groups.io and xs4all. I don't know. I'll try and e-mail groups.io about this.


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 02:48 PM, Duane wrote:

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 07:47 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
And have you done the same with other groups?
Aliases apply to the account, so are effective across all groups.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


 

Frank,

The headers seem to indicate, to me, that the delay is on the side of
groups.io, not my provider.
...
Received: from web01.groups.io by mxdrop301.xs4all.net
Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:09:41 +0200

X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:09:38 -0700
The fact that those two timestamps are within 3 seconds of each other (after correcting for timezones) does indeed suggest that the delay was earlier in the process: internal to Groups.io.

Some email services are handled specially by Groups.io because they've rate-limited messages from Groups.io in the past. So Groups.io attempts to keep its delivery rate below the level that apparently caused message rejection in the past. I don't know if xs4all.net is one of those and I would think that this would affect all users of that email service equally; but it is possible that it is a bit luck-of-the-draw as to which messages are affected.

Other ideas:

Do you know that that particular example had been posted to the group promptly (showing up on the Messages page, or reported by other members)? If not, is it possible it was pending moderation for that time? A long shot perhaps, but worth ruling out.

Are there any earlier X-received fields in that message's header? There might not be if the message was posted by web, but ought to be if it was posted by email.

Shal


--
Help: https://groups.io/helpcenter
More Help: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list


Frank Lekens
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 04:25 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
Frank,

> The headers seem to indicate, to me, that the delay is on the side of
> groups.io, not my provider.
> ...
> Received: from web01.groups.io by mxdrop301.xs4all.net
> Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:09:41 +0200
>
> X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:09:38 -0700

The fact that those two timestamps are within 3 seconds of each other
(after correcting for timezones) does indeed suggest that the delay was
earlier in the process: internal to Groups.io.

Some email services are handled specially by Groups.io because they've
rate-limited messages from Groups.io in the past. So Groups.io attempts
to keep its delivery rate below the level that apparently caused message
rejection in the past. I don't know if xs4all.net is one of those and I
would think that this would affect all users of that email service
equally; but it is possible that it is a bit luck-of-the-draw as to
which messages are affected.

Other ideas:

Do you know that that particular example had been posted to the group
promptly (showing up on the Messages page, or reported by other
members)? If not, is it possible it was pending moderation for that
time? A long shot perhaps, but worth ruling out.

Are there any earlier X-received fields in that message's header? There
might not be if the message was posted by web, but ought to be if it was
posted by email.

Shal

Thanks for the suggestions. I've just enquired at xs4all's support to see if they know anything about groups.io and mail from that domain. Waiting to hear from them.
The groups I am member of are all unmoderated, so nothing was held pending moderation. And I could see from the way the discussion developed on the website that other members did not experience this delay.
The headers I gave were all the headers that were in the mail.
And then this was only one of the very small number of e-mails (three or four or so) from Thursday afternoon that trickled down to me from Friday evening onwards. There's a number of e-mails sent via a number of lists since that haven't reached me at all -- including *everything* on this list.


spyderlady60@gmail.com
 

Same here...showing received in messages in Group home page...but not coming through into my inbox.Wonder
what's up with this?  Happened one other day too.  I'm owner so it's not pending moderation.
Let's see if this post to this group comes into my inbox.
Joyce Couts
Co-owner Mouseville