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Joining the subgroup directly still not possible?


Samuel Murray
 

Hello

I thought that this issue was resolved recently, but I tested it and got this result:

A test user (i.e. me) tries to subscribe to my test group's subgroup directly, via e-mail.  Groups.io replies (from the subgroup), saying that one should reply to confirm the subscription (to the subgroup).  The reply from Groups.io mentions the subgroup specifically and not the main group at all.  After replying to the message, the moderator receives a message from Groups.io that the test user wants to join the *main* group (not the subgroup). The moderator approves the membership.  The test user is now a member of the main group, but not of the subgroup.  After a few minutes, the test user receives a welcome message from the *main* group, and the moderator receives confirmation that the test user joined the main group.  The test user is still not subscribed to the subgroup.

Is this still what it supposed to happen?  Is there no way to make the test user join both main and subgroup simultaneously?

Samuel


Jeremy Harrison
 

I don't know as to whether it is what is supposed to happen, but it is certainly not what I expect to happen.

Having done a bit of playing around (aka testing) in this area, as I wish to have a largely inactive main group (but to which membership must be approved), with an active sub group (or several of them), without necessarily sub-group membership needing specific approval (i.e. beyond main group membership), I found that there are several things that don't happen as I expect - in particular members mysteriously appearing on (or disappearing from) the list of members, without associated e-mails or activity log entries. 

Having confirmed Samuel's experience, I found a second subscription request to the sub-group did enrol me to the sub-group, as expected.

Let me set out my expectations:

For joining (or leaving) a main group (only), or a sub-group (when already a main group member), however triggered - as normal, with appropriate sequence of e-mails, approvals and activity log entries.

For joining a sub-group, when not a member of the main group:
  • on application (by e-mail or web), confirmation e-mail should say that joining sub-group means also joining the main group; on confirming, the main group joining process be gone through first (with appropriate e-mails, approval, and activity logs); then the sub-group process (likewise). If two approvals are needed, perhaps both should be done first, before any other part of part of the joining processes.
  • on invitation, if the inviter is not a main group moderator with appropriate permission, then first that approval (to invite to main group) be obtained, then invitation e-mail should state to both main and sub-group, and on accepting the joining processes for both, as above.
  • on direct add, likewise.
On leaving a main group, when also a member of sub-group(s) - confirmation e-mail should state '...and any sub-groups that you a member of', or list them; and then leaving e-mails and activity logs for the sub-group as well as the main group (currently is main group only).

So that all concerned ((putative) subscriber and moderators/owners) are aware/have a record of what has happened, for both main and sub-group.

Jeremy
   


June Genis
 

I'm just getting started on all this but from what I've been reading here I'm not sure if I can get things to work the way I want.  My main group is for the senior community where I live, a CCRC for those who know what they are.  I would like all members to get announcements of general interest but expect most of the activity to be on the subgroups organized by continuing interest groups.  I don't want members of the main group to get any subgroup messages unless they are also subscribed to that subgroup.  Is that the way things work by default or am I going to have to change some default parameters? Do I have to tell people they need to subscribe to the main group before they can join a subgroup?
 
June

 


Frances
 

On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 05:27 PM, June Genis wrote:
I'm just getting started on all this but from what I've been reading here I'm not sure if I can get things to work the way I want.  My main group is for the senior community where I live, a CCRC for those who know what they are.  I would like all members to get announcements of general interest but expect most of the activity to be on the subgroups organized by continuing interest groups.  I don't want members of the main group to get any subgroup messages unless they are also subscribed to that subgroup.  Is that the way things work by default or am I going to have to change some default parameters? Do I have to tell people they need to subscribe to the main group before they can join a subgroup?
 
Members of subgroups must be members of the main group.

You can direct add main group members to subgroups. Or invite them to the subgroup (they will be added to the main group too, if they accept the subgroup invitation.)

What you want is the default, but do check the settings for your subgroup.
You can decide on settings for the subgroup, i.e. be different than the main group.
Do consider whether you want the subgroups to be visible to the main group. 
See 
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Subgroups
and
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Why-use-a-Subgroup

Members of the subgroup can make different subscription choices for each. For example, just get a full text digest for the mail group (or special notices only). And get every post right away for the subgroup.

See https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Quick-Start-for-Group-Formation
for settings and choices.

Frances


 
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June,

I don't want members of the main group to get any subgroup messages
unless they are also subscribed to that subgroup. Is that the way
things work by default ...
Yes.

As Frances said you've got controls (in each subgroup's Settings page) to control whether primary group members can see that the subgroup exists, and whether they can read it's messages. But only subgroup members will receive its messages by email.

Do I have to tell people they need to subscribe to the main group
before they can join a subgroup?
That would be the safest approach, at least until the investigations in this topic are resolved and maybe bug-fixes or improvements implemented.

They must be primary group members in order to be in a subgroup, there's no question about that.

But, depending on how they join the subgroup, subscription to the primary group might happen automatically. I believe it works that way with Invite; I thought it worked that way with both Join and +subscribe, but this topic exists because some have found that it doesn't work that way. I haven't tested this myself in quite some time.

Shal


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Jeremy Harrison
 

Based on my testing, of joining sub-group:
Invite causes them to be joined to the Sub Group (with e-mails to them and group owner, and an 'accepted invite' activity log), and the Main group - without any notification (e-mail or activity log) - they just (mysteriously) appear on the list of members.
Subscribe+ e-mail results - if not already a Main Group member- in them joining the Main group (only), without any indication to them that they will - first they know is the Welcome to Main@~ email.

Neither is to my mind correct behaviour.

Jeremy