Long Term Members Bouncing #bouncedemails


Sandra <sancole827@...>
 

Hi, 

There are two long term members on our group and they have been bouncing since 2019 and 2020. (both red bouncing members).

1. The first member has a charter.net email. We reached out with our personal emails to enquire, sent another bounce probe and they finally received the bounce probe email. However they said it is too complicated to follow (I don't know what the message says as I have never bounced). They would like to remain in the group, and occasionally sign in and read information, which I believe is possible. 

Can I give them the option to be removed, and then send them an invitation to rejoin the group? If they rejoin, will they still be bouncing (red bounce) or will this solve the bouncing issue?

2. The other member has a cox.net email. They eventually signed up with a new account (gmail). I have sent them the information to merge accounts. If they can't access their cox.net account, with their permission, I believe I can access their member page and change the cox.net email address to the new gmail account. A link to merge accounts will be sent to the gmail account. I just want to confirm the bouncing will not follow through to the gmail account?

Thanks, 

Sandra


 

Sandra,

Before doing anything yet, first find the reason they have red-bounced.  I'm saying that because some percentage of the red-bouncers happen because their mailbox fills-up, because (a), they read stuff online, and (b), used some throwaway address to sign-up to the group (because one has to have an email address for groups.io) but they forget about it and never check those inboxes.  [if you don't know how to check for that, click on their name in the bouncing list, then click on Email Delivery History, and that will give you the reason they have red-bounced.]


>>>
They would like to remain in the group, and occasionally sign in and read information, which I believe is possible. 
Can I give them the option to be removed, and then send them an invitation to rejoin the group? If they rejoin, will they still be bouncing (red bounce) or will this solve the bouncing issue?
<<<

It depends on the reason they red-bounced; if due to filled-up mailbox as mentioned above, removing them and re-adding them with the same address won't help, they'll go back to red-bounce status very quickly, if not right away, not sure.


>>> However they said it is too complicated to follow (I don't know what the message says as I have never bounced).

Per the user manual, I personally don't think it's complicated at all ...

- If you received a "Your Groups.io Account is Bouncing" email notification, click the link in the email to unbounce your account.
- Or, go to the Groups.io website (and log in if necessary). In the red banner at the top of the page, click the link to unbounce your account.

... but then again, computer users come in all knowledge shapes & sizes. If they think either of the above is too complicated, they either have to get a new email address for group membership or give you their groups.io password so you can log in as them and do it for them, I don't personally know how else it could be done.


>>> I just want to confirm the bouncing will not follow through to the gmail account?

Correct, to any different email account for that matter, but keep in mind that if they forget/forgo checking and cleaning-up their new account, it will also eventually go to red-bounce when it fills up.  One way to help avoid that is to set their group subscription to Special or NoEmail, depending on your groups setup.


>>> I believe I can access their member page and change the cox.net email address to the new gmail account.

If you're talking about their group member page, yes, as long as you have a paid group, free groups don't have that capability.


Also in general, Charter & Cox have been known to be a bit problematic for causing email delivery problems which cause bouncing.

Cheers,
Christos



 

Sandra,

They would like to remain in the group, and occasionally sign in and
read information, which I believe is possible.
If they log in to the site with the same email address that is subscribed to your group then there will be a banner on site informing them about their bouncing status.

It has been too long since I've tried it, I don't recall if they can ignore the banner and navigate on to your group's messages, or if they will be required to follow the instructions to unbounce their address first.

Can I give them the option to be removed, and then send them an
invitation to rejoin the group? If they rejoin, will they still be
bouncing (red bounce) or will this solve the bouncing issue?
No, that won't solve it. The bouncing status is attached to their email address, not their group subscription.

Or, maybe in the process of rejoining they might incidentally unbounce their address. But if the member finds the bounce probe too complicated to follow I've little hope of them following this path.

More to the point, rejoining won't resolve the underlying problem if their email service continues to reject messages from the group: they'll eventually regain bouncing status.

2. The other member has a cox.net email. They eventually signed up
with a new account (gmail). ... I just want to confirm the bouncing
will not follow through to the gmail account?
I don't think it would; logically the status goes with the email address so I don't think the merge would be coded in a way that transfers that status to the new account. If it does, I'd call it a bug and report it.

Shal


--
Help: https://groups.io/helpcenter
More Help: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list


Sandra <sancole827@...>
 

Thank you both for your replies. 

1. The member who has the charter.net account started bouncing November 2019. The message was:

mx0.charter.net: 550 5.1.0 ESMTP server temporarily unavailable AUP#I-1150

From reading GMF it seems like there were problems in this time period? I had hoped if she was removed, and it is not due to a full mailbox, that the bouncing status would go away and I could invite her back. I will see if she can forward the bounce probe email to me and see if there is anything I can assist the member with. The member was on plain digest and when she stopped receiving the digests she thought the group was finished...

2. The second member's had the following final bounce message:

550 5.1.0 66.175.222.12 blocked. Refer to Error Codes section at https://www.cox.com/residential/support/email-error-codes.html for more information. AUP#CDRBL

I am glad to know the bounce won't follow if the cox.net and gmail accounts are merged. 

Thanks for your help. 

Sandra


 

Sandra,

mx0.charter.net: 550 5.1.0 ESMTP server temporarily unavailable
AUP#I-1150
I concur with Christos that charter (and Cox) have had a history of problems receiving group messages from Groups.io.

I had hoped if she was removed, and it is not due to a full mailbox,
that the bouncing status would go away and I could invite her back.
Nope.

Removing bounce status is a matter of demonstrating that you can now receive messages from Groups.io. The bounce probe is designed to provide that proof by prompting you take an action (reply, or click a link). If you don't take action Groups.io presumes that you would still not receive messages from your groups either.

I will see if she can forward the bounce probe email to me and see if
there is anything I can assist the member with.
That might be worth a shot, but the action might fail if taken by you rather than her.

That is, if you follow a link it probably won't unbounce her account if you are logged in to your account at the time. If you log out first it may prompt you to log in (as her); hence Christos' statement about having her give you her Groups.io password.

Likewise, if email reply to the probe is an unbounce action then that reply would have to come from her email address, not yours.

550 5.1.0 66.175.222.12 blocked. Refer to Error Codes section at
https://www.cox.com/residential/support/email-error-codes.html for
more information. AUP#CDRBL
The 66.175.222.12 in that message is (one of) Groups.io's outbound email servers. The code CDRBL suggests that Cox found Groups.io's address on a Real-time Black List, and rejected the message as being from a source "known" to send undesirable messages (Spam, fraud, malicious, etc.). Some of these lists are notoriously unreliable, and they are a frequent source of trouble receiving group messages.

I disagree with Christos on one point: a full email Inbox is seldom the root cause of bouncing in most email services these days. And in particular won't be a problem with Gmail as their storage limit is enormous, and I don't think I've ever heard of them bouncing messages for lack of inbox space.

Shal


--
Help: https://groups.io/helpcenter
More Help: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list


Erikag59
 

If you manage to keep 15 GB of emails in your Gmail account, they will bounce messages after that. I found this out when trying to reach the incommunicado moderator of a Yahoo group for trading NSFW pictures.

--Erik

On Sat, Jul 10, 2021 at 3:13 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
...: a full email Inbox is seldom the
root cause of bouncing in most email services these days. And in
particular won't be a problem with Gmail as their storage limit is
enormous, and I don't think I've ever heard of them bouncing messages
for lack of inbox space.

Shal


 

Shal,

I also had a couple of red-bounced gmail accounts being over-quota in the past couple of years, plus other services too, big/small/well-/not-well-known/here/abroad ones.  I haven't done an actual statistical analysis or percentages, but if one excludes the flurry of yahoo/ymail/y-associated red-bouncers which can be 3/4's or so of the total, the full-mailbox bouncer percentage is indeed very low.  But it does happen, especially for folks who belong to high attachment-traffic groups, which is where those two accounts I mentioned were members of.

What compounds this is that group is set to Single as the default (which I think is GIO's setup default), so if the user doesn't setup their subscription to special or NoEmail and is not checking & cleaning their inbox, 15 gigs can surprisingly be filled up relatively quickly.

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-07-10 16:23, Erikag59 via groups.io wrote:
If you manage to keep 15 GB of emails in your Gmail account, they will bounce messages after that. I found this out when trying to reach the incommunicado moderator of a Yahoo group for trading NSFW pictures.

--Erik

On Sat, Jul 10, 2021 at 3:13 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
...: a full email Inbox is seldom the
root cause of bouncing in most email services these days. And in
particular won't be a problem with Gmail as their storage limit is
enormous, and I don't think I've ever heard of them bouncing messages
for lack of inbox space.

Shal


 

Christos,

I also had a couple of red-bounced gmail accounts being over-quota in
the past couple of years, plus other services too,
Ok, I'll stand corrected.

As Erik pointed out I was overlooking the large storage usage of photos (and other types of attachments) carried in email. Images can consume multiple megabytes each, where message text is seldom more than a couple dozen kilobytes.

I've not been in (or moderated) groups that use emailed photos or attachments extensively, so I haven't seen that issue in quite a while, back when Inbox capacities were measured in MB rather than GB.

Shal


--
Help: https://groups.io/helpcenter
More Help: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list


Sandra <sancole827@...>
 

Hi, 

The group had over 200 plus bouncing members and I slowly worked my way down to the few I have mentioned. There were gmail accounts that were over quota. The group does not allow attachments, but averages 1500 to 2000 messages per month, so the volume (if you are on individual email) can add up very quickly. I am not personally a fan of "no email", but it is not up to me. 

Thank you again for your assistance. 

Sandra


 

On Sat, Jul 10, 2021 at 11:01 PM, Sandra wrote:
The group had over 200 plus bouncing members
I've noticed that in all the groups I admin, there were more red bouncers than usual the last two months, and most of them Yahoo ... they must had a recent dead account purge.

Cheers,
Christos


Bärbel Stephenson
 

Yes, I had a couple of Yahoo addresses I no longer wanted to use.  I cleaned them out some time ago and got a few emails from Yahoo to say that I need to use them or they will be deleted (in the past couple of months).
Barbara

On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 at 06:28, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 10, 2021 at 11:01 PM, Sandra wrote:
The group had over 200 plus bouncing members
I've noticed that in all the groups I admin, there were more red bouncers than usual the last two months, and most of them Yahoo ... they must had a recent dead account purge.

Cheers,
Christos