Email rejection #smtp510


Malcolm Austen
 

I have a subscriber this morning reporting that he cannot reply to sender. That is to say that when he replies he gets an smtp 510 error report sent back.

I will continue to scan for old instances in the archives but just in case this is a newly arisen overnight error ...

This is an AOL customer trying to reply directly to a 'munged' address and getting back:

-----Original Message-----
From: MAILER-DAEMON@...
To: aaaaaa@...
Sent: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 11:23
Subject: Failure Notice

Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.

<bbbbbb@...>:
510: The group 'bbbbbb=btinternet.com' does not exist. You are subscribed to the following groups: KFHS-members@groups.io.

My observations on this:
  1. That email (which is what Groups.io sent out as the from address) should be forwarded to <bbbbbb@...>.
  2. '=' is a valid character in a group name, so how does groups.io decide whether to forward outwards or submit into a group?
  3. Maybe it's an AOL issue but I can't (yet?) see how.
Malcolm.

-- 
Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...>


Malcolm Austen
 

My pasting if the rejection message has suffered in the rendering here in the web interface so I';; repeat it with some 'escaping' of '@' as --at-- and '=' as --eq-- ...


-----Original Message-----
From: MAILER-DAEMON--at--aol.com
To: aaaaaa--at--aol.com
Sent: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 11:23
Subject: Failure Notice
 
Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.
 
<bbbbbb--eq--btinternet.com--at--groups.io>:
510: The group 'bbbbbb--eq--btinternet.com' does not exist. You are subscribed to the following groups: KFHS-members--at--groups.io.
 
My observations on this:
  1. That email (which is what Groups.io sent out as the from address) should be forwarded to <bbbbbb--at--btinternet.com>.
  2. --eq-- is a valid character in a group name, so how does groups.io decide whether to forward outwards or submit into a group?
  3. Maybe it's an AOL issue but I can't (yet?) see how.
  4. I failed to add the first time round that I have evidence that the subscriber can repl,y just fine when the original address (mine) is not munged on the way through groups.io
Malcolm.


Duane
 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 07:10 AM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
  • That email (which is what Groups.io sent out as the from address) should be forwarded to <bbbbbb--at--btinternet.com>.
  • --eq-- is a valid character in a group name, so how does groups.io decide whether to forward outwards or submit into a group?
GIO doesn't do any forwarding.  A Reply to Sender should go directly from the person replying to the original poster same as any other email they'd send, not via GIO.  When this error occurs, it's because the email client/service isn't properly observing the headers for From:, Reply-To:, etc.  The only solution I'm aware of is for the person to 'unmunge' the address properly before sending.  That would be bbbbbb--at--btinternet.com in this case.

Duane
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Jeff Coleman
 

Malcolm

It is quite straightforward to post a message to your list every now and again.

 

“If you wish to reply to the sender off-list, rather than to the whole list, make sure that any = sign in the apparent email address of the sender is replaced by @”

 

A quick sampling of recent messages I have received on Groups.io suggests that the replacement of @ by = in senders’ email addresses seems to occur when the email provider is based in UK, such as btinternet and btopenworld, but this may not be a general rule.

 

Jeff

 

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Malcolm Austen
Sent: 19 February 2021 12:34
To: groupmanagersforum@groups.io
Subject: [GMF] Email rejection #smtp510

 

I have a subscriber this morning reporting that he cannot reply to sender. That is to say that when he replies he gets an smtp 510 error report sent back.

 

I will continue to scan for old instances in the archives but just in case this is a newly arisen overnight error ...

 

This is an AOL customer trying to reply directly to a 'munged' address and getting back:

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 11:23

Subject: Failure Notice

 

Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.

 

510: The group 'bbbbbb=btinternet.com' does not exist. You are subscribed to the following groups: KFHS-members@groups.io.

 

My observations on this:

  1. That email (which is what Groups.io sent out as the from address) should be forwarded to <bbbbbb@...>.
  2. '=' is a valid character in a group name, so how does groups.io decide whether to forward outwards or submit into a group?
  3. Maybe it's an AOL issue but I can't (yet?) see how.

Malcolm.

 

-- 

Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...>


Malcolm Austen
 

Thanks Duane, I must be recalling some other system that does relay replies to munged addresses.

Headers include:
  • To: KFHS-members--at--groups.io
  • From: "Display Name via groups.io" <bbbbbb--eq--btinternet.com--at--groups.io>
  • Sender: KFHS-members--at--groups.io
  • Reply-To: KFHS-members@groups.io,bbbbbb--at--btinternet.com
It's evidently an AOL thing, the member with the problem is using AOL webmail and the emails go out through yahoo servers, so high risk all round there! AOL is ignoring the Reply-To header. So on to Plan G where I just say "go get a free gmail address" :-)

Malcolm.


CHARLOTTE ARMSTRONG
 

This may be a silly question, but if he has more than one email address in the app he is using, is he replying from the correct email address?

Charlotte in Texas
 

On Feb 19, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Malcolm wrote:

I have a subscriber this morning reporting that he cannot reply to sender. That is to say that when he replies he gets an smtp 510 error report sent back.


Malcolm Austen
 

On 19/02/2021 17:11:44, CHARLOTTE ARMSTRONG via groups.io <armstrca@...> wrote:

This may be a silly question, but if he has more than one email address in the app he is using, is he replying from the correct email address?
Malcolm Austen: 
Not a silly question Charlotte but not the right one eitjher I'm afraid. This was actually an attempt at a direct 1-to-1 email where the client software (AOL) had insisted on using the munged From address instead of the Reply-To address. It only became a groups.io question because that's where the smtp 510 error was generated - legitimately as it turns out.

Malcolm.


 

Malcolm,

I have a subscriber this morning reporting that he cannot reply to
sender.
... later ...

Reply-To: KFHS-members@groups.io,bbbbbb--at--btinternet.com
Your group evidently has its Reply To option set to "Group and Sender".

If the member is using his email system's Reply function that Reply-To field ought to cause his reply to be addressed to both, as shown.

AOL is ignoring the Reply-To header.
Possibly, though I'd expect a lot more messages about it.

Is it possible that the member, not wanting to reply to both, is attempting to copy the From field of the message and pasting that into the To field of their reply? Hence the 510 error when he sends to the invalid address.

Ideas:

1) Ask the member to use the normal Reply function, but then delete the group address from the To: field before sending.

2) Ask the member to use the _Reply To Sender_ link in the footer of the message.

3) Ask the member to use the normal Reply function, but then copy the email address from the _Reply To Sender_ link and paste that into the To field.

Shal


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