Topics

Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website


Pamela Tatt
 

I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.
I noticed that the other symbols have links when you put your cursor on them but the 3 solid 'hamburger' lines do not.
I believe this is the problem there would be no prompt from the screen reader to do anything???

Has anyone else found this to be a problem?  I have no experience whatsoever with screen readers so really do not know exactly how they work.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated so that I can help this very valued member of our group.

Pamela Tatt
Knit4Charities


 

Hi,

Can you ask your member which screen reader she is using? I might be able to forward her concerns to the right screen reader user forum so members can give her advice.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Pamela Tatt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:01 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website

 

I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.
I noticed that the other symbols have links when you put your cursor on them but the 3 solid 'hamburger' lines do not.
I believe this is the problem there would be no prompt from the screen reader to do anything???

Has anyone else found this to be a problem?  I have no experience whatsoever with screen readers so really do not know exactly how they work.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated so that I can help this very valued member of our group.

Pamela Tatt
Knit4Charities


Erik Burggraaf
 

Hi,  I have not been able to find this using NVDA.  I also have mac voiceover here, but I haven’t tried.  I noticed the menu was gone, and wondered where it went, but I thought if I kept banging away I might find it.  If you can let us know what screen reader we’re dealing with, that would be a big help, but it may be that a tag is missing in the site itself.

 

Best,

 

Erik

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Pamela Tatt
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:01 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website

 

I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.
I noticed that the other symbols have links when you put your cursor on them but the 3 solid 'hamburger' lines do not.
I believe this is the problem there would be no prompt from the screen reader to do anything???

Has anyone else found this to be a problem?  I have no experience whatsoever with screen readers so really do not know exactly how they work.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated so that I can help this very valued member of our group.

Pamela Tatt
Knit4Charities

 


 

Hi,

Which menu is this – the one under your name where you can change accounts and such,. Or groups list? Under Edge 88, NVDA sees them as buttons.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:32 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website

 

Hi,  I have not been able to find this using NVDA.  I also have mac voiceover here, but I haven’t tried.  I noticed the menu was gone, and wondered where it went, but I thought if I kept banging away I might find it.  If you can let us know what screen reader we’re dealing with, that would be a big help, but it may be that a tag is missing in the site itself.

 

Best,

 

Erik

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Pamela Tatt
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:01 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website

 

I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.
I noticed that the other symbols have links when you put your cursor on them but the 3 solid 'hamburger' lines do not.
I believe this is the problem there would be no prompt from the screen reader to do anything???

Has anyone else found this to be a problem?  I have no experience whatsoever with screen readers so really do not know exactly how they work.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated so that I can help this very valued member of our group.

Pamela Tatt
Knit4Charities

 


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 07:01 PM, Pamela Tatt wrote:
I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.
Pamela -- There was a change in the breakpoint between desktop and mobile in the groups.io web interface. It was previously around 770 pixels wide and is around 1237 pixels now. This occurred a little over a month ago.

I stumbled across this and asked about it, and Mark responded that it was done to improve the experience of iPad users viewing the site in portrait mode (see https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/27844). Frankly, I was not impressed with this explanation...but it's not affecting me, so wasn't in any position to argue about it. If you want it changed back you'll have to present your case in the beta group.

Meanwhile, the left-side menu is not gone...if you try a lower zoom setting on your display (or a higher resolution, which amounts to the same thing) the interface should toggle back to desktop mode.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


 

Hi,

In theory, a website in various presentation modes will work with screen readers – screen readers are interested in how to interpret and format information based on what the web browser, operating system, and accessibility infrastructure says. In practice, because not all web browsers support latest (and sometimes not so great) accessibility standards, and even if they do, may present information differently, screen readers include workarounds to support different web browsers + standards implementation combos. Making matters more interesting is that different screen readers treat the same web element differently and presents different ways to navigate and interact with them- for example, the concept of touch interaction makes sense on iOS and Android, whereas it makes more sense on PC’s with touch support (for this reason, mobile screen readers such as VoiceOver on iOS and Talkback on Android are touch-centric, whereas screen readers for Windows, macOS and desktop Linux are keyboard centric).

Speaking as a screen reader developer, what I am interested in are:

  1. Which screen readers are in use. If the member uses NonVisual Desktop Access (NVDA), please tell her to contact me and I’ll bring this up with other developers and users.
  2. Web browser in use. Different browsers (technical: web rendering engines) present things differently.
  3. How she is trying to access the unseen menu. If it is what I think it is, then perhaps it would be best to advise her to use the web navigation commands provided by screen readers she’s got to select the correct element.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph (certified NvDA Expert, 2019; NVDA code contributor, 2012 to present)

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Bowman
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 4:49 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout #website

 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 07:01 PM, Pamela Tatt wrote:

I have a group member who is totally blind and relies entirely on her screen reader to navigate the group pages.
Since the change to the layout with the menu being removed from the page view and made accessible from the links at the bottom of the page, she has not been able to find the menu.

Pamela -- There was a change in the breakpoint between desktop and mobile in the groups.io web interface. It was previously around 770 pixels wide and is around 1237 pixels now. This occurred a little over a month ago.

I stumbled across this and asked about it, and Mark responded that it was done to improve the experience of iPad users viewing the site in portrait mode (see https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/27844). Frankly, I was not impressed with this explanation...but it's not affecting me, so wasn't in any position to argue about it. If you want it changed back you'll have to present your case in the beta group.

Meanwhile, the left-side menu is not gone...if you try a lower zoom setting on your display (or a higher resolution, which amounts to the same thing) the interface should toggle back to desktop mode.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Pamela Tatt
 

Hi Bruce,

Yes thank you I know all that -- the problem is how does one get to the side menu using a screen reader?

I will contact the person concerned and ask what 'reader' she uses.  Once we know that perhaps I can get some help for her.
I will also suggest she changes the zoom setting -- perhaps that will solve her problem -- it wont matter to her how small the font is :)

Thanks for all your help,
Pamela


Erik Burggraaf
 
Edited

Another thing that helps me is, I don’t bother with zooming.  I press f11 for full screen.  This is the same on most browsers but I’m particularly using chrome for this.  When I do this I get things like an expanded my groups table with more information.  Still looking for the main menu though.  I can’t find the administrater panel for my list settings anywhere.

Best,

Erik

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From: Pamela Tatt
Sent: February 16, 2021 11:46 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout#website

Hi Bruce,

Yes thank you I know all that -- the problem is how does one get to the side menu using a screen reader?

I will contact the person concerned and ask what 'reader' she uses.  Once we know that perhaps I can get some help for her.
I will also suggest she changes the zoom setting -- perhaps that will solve her problem -- it wont matter to her how small the font is :)

Thanks for all your help,
Pamela

 

 


 

Hi,

It’s a link – it is labeled “Admin” (at least this is with Edge).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:19 AM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout#website

 

Another thing that helps me is, I don’t bother with zooming.  I press f11 for full screen.  This is the same on most browsers but I’m particularly using chrome for this.  When I do this I get things like an expanded my groups table with more information.  Still looking for the main menu though.  I can’t find the administrater panel for my list settings anywhere.

Best,

Erik


Erik Burggraaf
 

Thanks for that,  I thought I was being careful, but I probably outsmarted myself using heading or table navigation.  It works in chrome as well as edge.

 

Best,

 

Erik

 

[ad removed by moderator]

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: February 17, 2021 11:48 AM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout

 

Hi,

It’s a link – it is labeled “Admin” (at least this is with Edge).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io <GroupManagersForum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:19 AM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Possible Screen Reader problem with new page layout#website

 

Another thing that helps me is, I don’t bother with zooming.  I press f11 for full screen.  This is the same on most browsers but I’m particularly using chrome for this.  When I do this I get things like an expanded my groups table with more information.  Still looking for the main menu though.  I can’t find the administrater panel for my list settings anywhere.

Best,

Erik

 

 


Pamela Tatt
 

Thank you everyone for your insights.
We have now solved the problem.

After I told my friend of the comments and suggestion you had all made she spent some time exploring her screen.  
She uses JAWS with Google Chrome.

She hadn't realised that Chrome was only using a half screen and when she found the button to expand it to Full Screen it, of course, included the Left Hand menu again.
So all is well, thanks to your suggestions.

Kind regards, 
Pamela Tatt
Knit4Charities Inc