Topics

Members left and rejoined


David Grimm
 

Yesterday, I had 3 members that left the group via web. Not removed for reporting spam. Today, those same three members rejoined via the web. I didn't approve them, nor was I notified they re-applied (Restricted Membership). Wouldn't they have been considered new applicants that needed approving? Or is there a boilerplate Goodbye message for someone leaving the group with a rejoin link? If so, is the link good for as long as their copy of the Goodbye notice exists? I don't have a custom Goodbye notice created.

Dave


Frances
 

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 11:09 PM, David Grimm wrote:
Yesterday, I had 3 members that left the group via web. Not removed for reporting spam. Today, those same three members rejoined via the web. I didn't approve them, nor was I notified they re-applied (Restricted Membership). Wouldn't they have been considered new applicants that needed approving? Or is there a boilerplate Goodbye message for someone leaving the group with a rejoin link? If so, is the link good for as long as their copy of the Goodbye notice exists? I don't have a custom Goodbye notice created.
Did you check their activity?
https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/reviewing-the-group-s-activity-log

Is it possible they were bouncing? See https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-members/checking-for-bouncing-members
And https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/additional-information/groups-io-bounce-handling

About Goodbye notices - see https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/goodbye-notice
About creating notices - see https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/creating-editing-or-deleting-member-notices
 
Frances
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David Grimm
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 02:23 AM, Frances wrote:
Did you check their activity?
https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/reviewing-the-group-s-activity-log
Yes. Each one shows this: 
w...............p@... resumed membership via web Dec 4
w...............p@... left via web Dec 3
Is it possible they were bouncing? See https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-members/checking-for-bouncing-members
And https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/additional-information/groups-io-bounce-handling
The list of bouncing members makes no reference now to them bouncing, but I wouldn't have had any reason to look there if the original message was they left via the web. 
About Goodbye notices - see https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/goodbye-notice
About creating notices - see https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/creating-editing-or-deleting-member-notices
I read there: "To be sent automatically, the notice must be the active notice (set to Active Message). If no Goodbye notice is set to Active Message, none will be sent." I have other notices created, but not a Goodbye notice, so that's not the issue.

Any other ideas?

Dave


Duane
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 09:10 AM, David Grimm wrote:
Any other ideas?
It nearly has to be a message reported as spam.  Go to the members record, then select the Activity History at the top.  That will probably show "reported message #xxxxx as spam and was removed via email" followed by "resumed membership via web".  See also https://groups.io/helpcenter/faq/1/group-member-faq/q-i-got-a-message-that-i

Duane
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David Grimm
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 10:17 AM, Duane wrote:
It nearly has to be a message reported as spam.  Go to the members record, then select the Activity History at the top.  That will probably show "reported message #xxxxx as spam and was removed via email" followed by "resumed membership via web".  See also https://groups.io/helpcenter/faq/1/group-member-faq/q-i-got-a-message-that-i
That's what I'm particularly trying to stress. It does NOT say that. It says they "left via web". I've been owner of this group long enough and had enough members come and go for spam reporting to know the difference. I've looked through the wiki and searched the message archives here and have not been able to find anything about members rejoining after voluntarily leaving, which is what I see here.

Dave


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 05:23 PM, David Grimm wrote:
I've looked through the wiki and searched the message archives here and have not been able to find anything about members rejoining after voluntarily leaving, which is what I see here.
Have you contacted the individuals concerned to ask them the sequence of events from their perspective?

Seems like a potentially useful thing to do.

Chris


David Grimm
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 01:09 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Have you contacted the individuals concerned to ask them the sequence of events from their perspective?

Seems like a potentially useful thing to do.
In the process of that. That's not my question, though. My question is how did they rejoin without approval. I know that's possible for spam reporters, but I'm trying to find out if it's possible for members who voluntarily leave.

Dave


Bruce Bowman
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 01:40 PM, David Grimm wrote:
That's not my question, though. My question is how did they rejoin without approval.
David -- I've searched several of my own activity logs in response to your inquiry, and I've yet to find a "resume membership" happen except in the context of a previous "removal for reporting spam." Could you share your Spam Control settings with us? Perhaps Restricted in combination with something else could lead to this sequence of entries. Please also report whatever feedback you get from those who actually experienced this. 

To be clear, you *do* want these guys to be in your group, right? If so, I suggest we avoid getting too excited over some peculiar log entries.

Regards,
Bruce

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Duane
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM, David Grimm wrote:
I know that's possible for spam reporters, but I'm trying to find out if it's possible for members who voluntarily leave.
As far as I can find,m it's ONLY possible for those removed for spam.

Duane
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Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 07:12 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I've searched several of my own activity logs in response to your inquiry, and I've yet to find a "resume membership" happen except in the context of a previous "removal for reporting spam."
Interesting; I've carried out the same exercise and have identified 2 who "left via the web" and then "resumed membership". I daresay if I looked further I would find more, but finding a couple is sufficient to suggest that "leavers" are immediately given the chance to come back, presumeably on a do you really want to leave? basis. These do not seem to trigger moderator notifications unless the "leaver" really means it.

So I suspect that what has been reported is a feature, not a fault.

IMHO part of the overall problem is that moderators have no sight of system generated messages to members so we have no idea what is said in them.

David; from your activity log find someone who "resumed membership" and then look at their individual activity history to see a fuller sequence of events; it's a lot easier than trying to piece things together from the global activity log and its constituent possibilities.

Chris


David Grimm
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 02:59 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
David; from your activity log find someone who "resumed membership" and then look at their individual activity history to see a fuller sequence of events; it's a lot easier than trying to piece things together from the global activity log and its constituent possibilities.
I've done that and there are 6 entries -
1. w.................p@... applied for membership via web       Oct 6
2. w.................p@... sent message "Re: Your pending membership in the main@GuilfordRailSightings.groups.io group" to owners via email    Oct 6
3. w.................p@... sent message "Re: [GuilfordRailSightings] Subscription to the group" to owners via email    Oct 7  
4. David Grimm <engrdave325@...> approved w.................p@...'s membership via web       Oct 7
5. w.................p@... left via web        Dec 3
6. w.................p@... resumed membership via web        Dec 4

The other two subscriptions have the same 6 entries. 

Dave


David Grimm
 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 02:59 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
IMHO part of the overall problem is that moderators have no sight of system generated messages to members so we have no idea what is said in them.
And as to that, I just tested it with my 'regular membership' account. That address got no emails; my owner address got member 'left via web' and <address> applied for membership via web notifications. After I approved that, I got the New Subscriber notification.

Got no mention of 'rejoining' the group at either address.

Dave 


David Grimm
 


David -- I've searched several of my own activity logs in response to your inquiry, and I've yet to find a "resume membership" happen except in the context of a previous "removal for reporting spam." Could you share your Spam Control settings with us? Perhaps Restricted in combination with something else could lead to this sequence of entries. Please also report whatever feedback you get from those who actually experienced this. 
Spam control settings are:
Restricted Membership - checked
Announcement-Only Group - not checked
Message Moderation - Messages are not moderated
New Members Moderated - checked
Unmoderated After - 1 approved message
To be clear, you *do* want these guys to be in your group, right? If so, I suggest we avoid getting too excited over some peculiar log entries.

Actually, I don't think I do want them as members. Some background: back in September and October, I received a bunch of new membership applications, all from AOL addresses. The Pending Membership notice asks for a reason for them to request subscribing. I'm not too particular about what their reason is, as much as I just want a human response. After seeing more than one response that was just one line saying something along the lines of  'I'm about to graduate and my professor said I should look at this site to get information about getting a job', I started getting suspicious and began looking more deeply into these applicants. Turns out that they all were coming from the same city in India, although a few of them were from the Netherlands. So I've stopped approving them (we're a group of railfans in New England; we know nothing about hiring people from halfway around the world). These three were already approved before my crackdown. The fact that all three 'left via web' within 24 hours and 'rejoined via web within 2 minutes the next day REALLY got my attention. They haven't posted any messages so they are still NMM, and I can't see that they have caused any problems, but the whole thing doesn't seem right to me. My next course of action if they don't respond to the message I sent them is to remove them and see what happens after that. If they come back again, I will ban them. 

I guess what I'm really trying to find out is if this some function that in 3 years of ownership I had never heard about or run across or if it is a bug I should report to Mark.

Dave


 

Dave,


Actually, I don't think I do want them as members. Some background: back in September and October, I received a bunch of new membership applications, all from AOL addresses. The Pending Membership notice asks for a reason for them to request subscribing. I'm not too particular about what their reason is, as much as I just want a human response. After seeing more than one response that was just one line saying something along the lines of  'I'm about to graduate and my professor said I should look at this site to get information about getting a job', I started getting suspicious and began looking more deeply into these applicants. Turns out that they all were coming from the same city in India, although a few of them were from the Netherlands. So I've stopped approving them (we're a group of railfans in New England; we know nothing about hiring people from halfway around the world). These three were already approved before my crackdown. The fact that all three 'left via web' within 24 hours and 'rejoined via web within 2 minutes the next day REALLY got my attention. They haven't posted any messages so they are still NMM, and I can't see that they have caused any problems, but the whole thing doesn't seem right to me. My next course of action if they don't respond to the message I sent them is to remove them and see what happens after that. If they come back again, I will ban them.

There are several clues in what you just said, and my money is on that they are spammers, and they have been harvesting emails addresses all this time.

I guess what I'm really trying to find out is if this some function that in 3 years of ownership I had never heard about or run across or if it is a bug I should report to Mark.

I's personally would report it on beta, if not as a #bug, as a #misc at least, so this way you/we can get more clarification; something indeed doesn't seem 100% right here, and it could be there is some loophole somewhere which those folks may have discovered/exploited, you never know.

Cheers,
Christos


Bruce Bowman
 

FYI folks, I've posted an inquiry to beta on this. Just struggling to wrap my head around "resumed via web." I've never noticed any web feature that would allow someone to resume a vacated membership...especially in a Restricted group. Rejoin, yes.

Maybe there's something in the phone app that would allow this to happen.

Regards,
Bruce

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David Grimm
 

And to close out this thread, in the beta group, Mark said that when someone uses the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email, the system sends an email with a link to rejoin if it was done in error. Apparently, this is what happened. 

I did reach out to the three that did this almost simultaneously, asking if there was any particular reason for leaving and rejoining. Only one got back to me and his answer was "No... It Automatically got cancelled". The detective in me noticed three (there may be more) things wrong with that reply, so my suspicions taht the three were part of a group up to something nefarious was not allayed. I'll be interested to see if they re-apply.

Dave