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Can the Photo section be have a sub directory with a its own group of photo albums?


Ld Bonnie
 

Can we create a sub directory in our photo section that contains a separate group of photo albums or one album in the main section that contains several sub albums?

The user is taken to the Photo section by clicking on the link. When they get there they have all the groups photos to chose from. Is it possible to put in another link at the top of this page that will open a sub section of the main photo section containing another group of albums?

Our group is made up of users of the Mallincam Astronomy photography cameras. The photo section of our group is used by all members to display their Astro Photos. The photos were made by one of several different camera models and many of those photos have been enhanced with PhotoShop like software. The section contains hundreds of albums each containing many photos, totaling somewhere in the thousands. It can be a bit daunting to find specific photos.

We would like to make a separate page or section in the main photo section containing an album for each camera model. The album would contain a few examples of images made with the camera model. Without any additional processing done to the images. 

We could add albums like 001 Model abc, 002 Model def, 003 Model ghi but a separate section it would be easier to compare the different camera models with the knowledge that none of the images have had any post processing done to enhance them as seen in the main photo section.

Lorence


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:12 PM, Ld Bonnie wrote:
Can we create a sub directory in our photo section that contains a separate group of photo albums or one album in the main section that contains several sub albums?
Ld -- There is no provision within groups.io for nested photo albums, although it's been requested at least twice (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/34667114 and https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14625).

If you enable the "allow photos in files" setting, you can nest them there...but it does not display the photos as thumbnails, just links.

Regards,
Bruce

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Jenny E
 


If you want to group certain albums, you could title them with something like A or 0 before the actual title. That will place it/them at the beginning of the albums. Some of my doll collector groups do this for things like special issues, sales albums, etc.
Jenny


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:12 PM Ld Bonnie via groups.io <l_d_bonnie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can we create a sub directory in our photo section that contains a separate group of photo albums or one album in the main section that contains several sub albums?

The user is taken to the Photo section by clicking on the link. When they get there they have all the groups photos to chose from. Is it possible to put in another link at the top of this page that will open a sub section of the main photo section containing another group of albums?

Our group is made up of users of the Mallincam Astronomy photography cameras. The photo section of our group is used by all members to display their Astro Photos. The photos were made by one of several different camera models and many of those photos have been enhanced with PhotoShop like software. The section contains hundreds of albums each containing many photos, totaling somewhere in the thousands. It can be a bit daunting to find specific photos.

We would like to make a separate page or section in the main photo section containing an album for each camera model. The album would contain a few examples of images made with the camera model. Without any additional processing done to the images. 

We could add albums like 001 Model abc, 002 Model def, 003 Model ghi but a separate section it would be easier to compare the different camera models with the knowledge that none of the images have had any post processing done to enhance them as seen in the main photo section.

Lorence


Christos G. Psarras
 

Lorence,


On 2020-09-29 22:45, Bruce Bowman via groups.io wrote:
If you enable the "allow photos in files" setting, you can nest them there...but it does not display the photos as thumbnails, just links.

Bruce's idea works great for this specific instance of needing a special "read-only" reference area, as you can restrict write access to Files but still have the Photos available for the users. (if you still need to have Files enabled for member uploads, you can still use this scheme, you'd just have to tell folks to stay out whatever folders you use or else, and monitor to ensure folks don't mess with it)

You can get around the "awkwardness" the Files section can present to users by using the Wiki to create a more user-friendly webpage-driven camera menu and online image viewer of those images, which could then be downloaded right from therein without having to visit Files whatsoever.

You'd create the Files - whatever - camera model folder structure and populate the folders.

Then for each camera model you'd create a camera model wiki page.  It would contain whatever text info you may want to include and would also contain all the raw images for that camera as embedded images, done by Insert Image - Add by URL, and using the links that point to the camera's Files corresponding images.  Right after adding the image, you'd need to edit its options and constrain its display size to a practical page size, otherwise editing the page will be impossible, especially if you have interspersed image and text.

When that wiki page is viewed, the images will render scaled down to fit the size you selected or if not, scaled to fit the screen if oversize, but the user can then right-click on those images and select Save Image As and it will save the actual fullsize JPEG or RAW file locally to their computer, same as if they were in the actual Files section.  (or right-click and display/open image for a full view online)

If you wanted to get fancy and save the users from having to right-click, after adding the image you could then select it, click on the toolbar URL link and assign the same URL filename you used as the link's URL, so when the page is now viewed, the images are active and pointing to themselves so the user can click on the image for the full size and either see it onscreen right away, having it auto-saved, or asked, depending on settings.  They can still right-click and save of course.

Then you'd also need one last page that is your camera model catalog structure, and each model links to its above model page.  IIRC you can also create TOC two frame wikis, the camera on the TOC frame and their links opening on the other frame, and use it for this wiki.

If you already have a top level home wiki page currently that has other stuff, you'd also need to add the text and link in there to the camera catalog wiki.

The advantage is that using the Wiki to encapsulate the Files is more user friendly.

The disadvantage is that it's more work for you or whoever does it.  It could take a while to get it all done if you already have lots of existing camera images and models to document; if you were just starting up more or less, it would be less upfront time but more downstream, but in either case, you'd then have to stay on top of both places to ensure stuff (and especially the links) don't get out of sync.

Cheers,
Christos


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 11:16 AM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
You can get around the "awkwardness" the Files section can present to users by using the Wiki to create a more user-friendly webpage-driven camera menu and online image viewer of those images, which could then be downloaded right from therein without having to visit Files whatsoever.
I set up an alphabetical index of Photo Albums in the wiki in the Group I co - own, with links to the individual albums. (I would much prefer there to be an owner - configurable index provided in the photos section, but that's another story...) Trying to find a specific album by trawling through the photos section is tedious at best, and the wiki index with links gets around that.

Although I am reluctant to comment directly about the use case in question (having no experience of it on which to draw) adding thumbnails seems a lot of work for perhaps limited benefit. It will also eat into a group's storage allowance although for a paid group (which I suspect might be the case here) the additional space needed by the thumbnails might not present too serious a problem.

I would certainly suggest trying a linked index without any bells and whistles bolted on in your wiki to see if the idea works well enough to remain that way or to establish if further refinements are necessary. Don't lose sight of the fact that your members will want all sorts of refinements adding knowing full well that they themselves won't have to do the work to set it up.

Chris


Ld Bonnie
 

Thanks for the advice.

Perhaps a sub directory structure will be available in the Photo section. For now it looks like the only practical solution is to structure the album names.

Maintenance required by the group is all volunteer based. Following the KISS principle is always the wisest choice.   

Lorence


Christos G. Psarras
 

Chris,

adding thumbnails seems a lot of work for perhaps limited benefit. It will also eat into a group's storage allowance ...
They are not real thumbnails hence wouldn't require any extra space; they would be the actual images themselves, or a link to them more accurately, because you are adding them through the "Add by URL" method, not though the Browse/Upload/Drag-n-drop method which will upload and create a local .io file and count against your storage.

As to extra work, it's really not if you think about it, because if you are adding a linked image on a wiki page to begin with, it just takes a few extra seconds to also link it (to itself) and constraint its display size and turn it into a active "thumbnail".  Obviously we are talking about a few references images per camera model (wiki page), if there were 10s of images per camera then it would indeed be lot of work.

Cheers,
Christos


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:35 PM, Ld Bonnie wrote:
Perhaps a sub directory structure will be available in the Photo section.
And perhaps there won't. FWIW (having thought about it) a "tree" of albums and sub albums will be of limited help without an index of some sort. Finding a specific album by dead reckoning is IMHO rather difficult.

For now it looks like the only practical solution is to structure the album names.
It might well help, but finding a specific album is still likely to be troublesome. without a lot of tooing and froing to track down the "right page" of albums... unless continuous scroll is used, and that might still be messy.

Maintenance required by the group is all volunteer based.
Quite, but I suspect that rationalising your photo albums can only be done by one person at time; too many cooks will spoil the broth (as ever!) and in the context of rationalising a filing system of any sort even two is likely to be one too many!

Following the KISS principle is always the wisest choice.   
Agreed; and the simplest way is an alphbetical index with links to the relevant albums. I'm not sure why you haven't commented on what you think of that idea but you don't seem keen to try it. You seem to be awaiting a solution (that might never come) from Groups.io and I'm far from certain that if it did come about that it would provide what you seem to want.

Christos; I won't argue with most of what you said, although I will stand by my earlier assertion that adding thumbnails is a "lot of work" for not that much benefit. I think there other potential drawbacks but I won't elaborate for now; other things are calling for attention.

The only drawback that I can see in using the wiki for a photo (album) index is the inability (AFAIK) to have two columns, which means that the index is a long page with a lot of unused space on the right hand side. Potential solution: prepare the index off - line and upload it as a pdf into the Files section of a group. As I said previously Oh for a configurable index as the front page in Photos... I ought to suggest it on beta but my suggestions have a habit of vanishing without trace.

Chris


Christos G. Psarras
 

Chris,

 
The only drawback that I can see in using the wiki for a photo (album) index is the inability (AFAIK) to have two columns ...
 
You can have columns in a wiki page, it's (more or less) an html web page, and it does support tables, so you can have 2 or more columns by using a table:



The weird thing is that the wiki editor does not provide a button for inserting a table in its toolbar, maybe Mark has not enabled it, I don't know, I should ask on beta I guess.  Anyway, you'd have to create the table in an external html page editor or word processor that can support html, then copy and paste into the wiki page.

I did a quick test using MS Word.  Here's the test table I created in it and pasted in the above:



As you can see, the wiki editor, while supporting the table structure and text themselves plus the text attributes, it does not (seemingly, see more below) support the color attributes for the table, whether through copy+paste directly into the wiki editor windows or going through the html code way and pasting the code text for it.  The first time I pasted it into the wiki page, it showed as in Word, but after I saved it, it shows as above, and if I edit it again, it looks like this:




The other weird thing is that if you click on the table, the wiki editor recognizes it as a table and it gives you options for it, including properties where you can set stuff like column width, border style, background color, etc:




I tried to see if I could adjust some of those table properties, like the background color and border line style, but it didn't seem to retain the settings, that's why I think Mark has not enabled some functionality in that wiki editor software, not sure.

But the bottom line is you can have columnar text using a table, for now at least, you'll have to use an external editor to create it, so you may want to create your master index document in Word or whatnot and use that file for modifications, and just copy and paste the whole thing into the wiki page.

Cheers,
Christos


 

Chris, I've read your comments below.
 
First, I would never be so foolish as to suggest what Mark will or won't do, or is capable of doing.
 
You response suggests a system that would, in itself, would require a lot of bouncing back and forth between photos and an index. That's no gain as far as I'm concerned and would be dependent on a lot of users having to do a lot of extra things to build that index. It doesn't take much imagination to understand that just isn't going to happen on my groups. And as the primary moderator and owner, I don't have the time to do it either.
 
I am one of that group that feels that a subdirectory system in Photos would be quite beneficial. Aggregating images into logical general groups (as is done now) and then subgroups below that would certainly help save time in finding things. All too often people don't exactly know enough about what something might be called to even search for it, but limiting the search to logical groups could reduce that a lot. If you can't imagine a need for that for your groups, I can assure you that other groups would quickly put them to good use.
 
As you may surmise, I am in favor of some kind of subdirectory system for Photos and have expressed that in the past. I may have even been in the first thread to suggest them. I have been patient, but I will also be persistent and won't give up.
 
Dano
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...>
To: <GroupManagersForum@groups.io>
Sent: 10/1/2020 8:44:59 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Can the Photo section be have a sub directory with a its own group of photo albums?

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:35 PM, Ld Bonnie wrote:
Perhaps a sub directory structure will be available in the Photo section.
And perhaps there won't. FWIW (having thought about it) a "tree" of albums and sub albums will be of limited help without an index of some sort. Finding a specific album by dead reckoning is IMHO rather difficult.

For now it looks like the only practical solution is to structure the album names.
It might well help, but finding a specific album is still likely to be troublesome. without a lot of tooing and froing to track down the "right page" of albums... unless continuous scroll is used, and that might still be messy.

Maintenance required by the group is all volunteer based.
Quite, but I suspect that rationalising your photo albums can only be done by one person at time; too many cooks will spoil the broth (as ever!) and in the context of rationalising a filing system of any sort even two is likely to be one too many!

Following the KISS principle is always the wisest choice.   
Agreed; and the simplest way is an alphbetical index with links to the relevant albums. I'm not sure why you haven't commented on what you think of that idea but you don't seem keen to try it. You seem to be awaiting a solution (that might never come) from Groups.io and I'm far from certain that if it did come about that it would provide what you seem to want.

Christos; I won't argue with most of what you said, although I will stand by my earlier assertion that adding thumbnails is a "lot of work" for not that much benefit. I think there other potential drawbacks but I won't elaborate for now; other things are calling for attention.

The only drawback that I can see in using the wiki for a photo (album) index is the inability (AFAIK) to have two columns, which means that the index is a long page with a lot of unused space on the right hand side. Potential solution: prepare the index off - line and upload it as a pdf into the Files section of a group. As I said previously Oh for a configurable index as the front page in Photos... I ought to suggest it on beta but my suggestions have a habit of vanishing without trace.

Chris
 


Christos G. Psarras
 

>>> I am one of that group that feels that a subdirectory system in Photos would be quite beneficial.
 
I don't think Chris was arguing against that; a well-designed and -named folder structure, combined with the built-in Search, can act as a self-index, so this is of definitive help to the Photos section.

I also can see the benefit of having some single-page index which opens albums (or images) in a separate browser tab; many users know how to use tabs so it can be of value when researching something let's say.  A roundabout way of doing it is with a wiki page currently.  But having some similar thing/capacity in Photos could be useful, even if it all entailed adding just a link to the wiki.

Cheers,
Christos


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:22 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
I don't think Chris was arguing against that; a well-designed and -named folder structure, combined with the built-in Search, can act as a self-index, so this is of definitive help to the Photos section.

Quite right! I wasn't trying to "put words in Mark's mouth" either, just pointing out that in any situation where "something might happen" then "something might not happen" was also possible.:) I did send a message to that effect late last night (UK time) but it seems to have got lost somewhere in the Atlantic...

I have to be honest... I cannot see how a more complex Folder / Album structure can work satisfactorily without an index with embedded links to help users find the album they want; perhaps I have missed something obvious. A further point is that it is possible to construct an index that gives the appearance of a folder / subfolder or album structure without that structure actually existing anywhere beyond the index itself.

I'd post a section of "my" group Photo Index here but without being members of the group concerned no - one would actually see the Albums...

Chris


Ld Bonnie
 

Hello Chris

Our group's Photo section has over 1300 albums made by 2500+ members with over twenty different camera models. The Albums likely average about 10 photos in each one. Some of the albums go back to 2004. The term "Willy Nilly" bests describes the Album naming nomenclature. Our Search function should be labeled "Good Luck"

What would be very usable would be another link at the top of the Photo section page that simply drops the user into a second Photo section. The second Photo section would be independent from the main section in function but it could only be accessed by going into the main photo section first. Like the directory structure of a PC.

All up to the Powers That Be. Maybe if a few of us say "Please."  :)

Lorence


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 09:33 PM, Ld Bonnie wrote:
The term "Willy Nilly" bests describes the Album naming nomenclature. Our Search function should be labeled "Good Luck"
Now that scenario sounds familiar... :)

Are you a "paid" group? If not I would have thought that you would have run out of space years ago.

One point; if you had a second "independent" photo section would it not finish up looking like the existing one?

Chris


Ld Bonnie
 

The owner is paying for the account but I never asked how much, or how much space we have.

The new Photo section I would like to create is for a specific group of albums, each album will contain a number of photo examples of one camera model.
The purpose of the albums is to demonstrate the capabilities of each camera model and for people to make comparisons. In this case the new section would be under a moderators control. Mallincam makes about twenty different camera models. We will make one Album for each model.

Our main Photo section will continue along as it always has unless we can agree on some sort of standardization of the albums titles and information. Then to convince the group to use them.  That may prove to be "interesting."

Lorence


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 08:16 PM, Ld Bonnie wrote:
The purpose of the albums is to demonstrate the capabilities of each camera model and for people to make comparisons. In this case the new section would be under a moderators control. Mallincam makes about twenty different camera models. We will make one Album for each model.
Aha! From what you have now said I think I can see an immediate solution to this. What you have just described would not work without further "changes" because photo albums cannot be split between those to which Members can upload and those to which only Moderators can upload.

You seem to be proposing a sort of "Reference Photos" collection. Would it be worth your considering setting up a sub - group to your entire group, rather then requesting a rework of the way albums currently work? You could easily call it Mallincam Reference Sub-Group or something of the sort; you then have the photo albums in that sub - group set up to be Moderators only.

Chris


Pat Pratt
 

And also, if you just want to work without a subgroup, make up your 20 albums and start their titles with a letter A or number 0. You can set these "A" or "0" reference albums on your different cameras to be moderated. Sort by name. Set up all personal albums to start with the letter P or something else. Then your camera reference albums will show up first ahead of the personal albums. 
--
Pat P


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 03:21 PM, Pat Pratt wrote:
if you just want to work without a subgroup, make up your 20 albums and start their titles with a letter A or number 0.
That may work, but such an approach is vulnerable to users having a sort order other than "Title ↑". There are 3 other sort orders available and they are an account - wide setting so for reasons that might perfectly legitimate, or perhaps completely accidental, users may not find albums that are "engineered" to be at the front of the pack actually at the front of the pack.

I hesitate to carry on beating the same drum but having an alphabetical index page set up with links to the relevant albums is the way around this; it matters not where the indivdual albums actually are, the links will find them.

An entire sub - group for "reference photographs" will work provided that the ability to upload photos is restricted to moderators, and probably to have it as an Announcement Group as well. However it would still be vulnerable to the choice of sort order which of course moderators cannot control. A second layer of photo albums would also have sort - order limitations, and would also require additional settings to prevent members using it rather than just moderators.

The idea of setting up an index page (which can be done now) seems to attract little support; I just wish someone would tell me what is actually wrong with the idea. Yes; it requires work to set it up, but it works.

Chris


Tony Moody
 

See Below:

On 4 Oct 2020 at 9:41, Chris Jones via groups.io wrote about :
Subject : Re: [GMF] Can the Photo section be

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 03:21 PM, Pat Pratt wrote:

if you just want to work without a subgroup, make up your 20 albums and start their titles with a letter A or number 0.

That may work, but such an approach is vulnerable to users having a sort order other than "Title ↑". There are 3 other sort orders available and they are an account - wide setting so for reasons that might perfectly legitimate, or perhaps completely accidental, users may not find albums that are "engineered" to be at the front of the pack actually at the front of the pack.

I hesitate to carry on beating the same drum but having an alphabetical index page set up with links to the relevant albums is the way around this; it matters not where the indivdual albums actually are, the links will find them.

An entire sub - group for "reference photographs" will work provided that the ability to upload photos is restricted to moderators, and probably to have it as an Announcement Group as well. However it would still be vulnerable to the choice of sort order which of course moderators cannot control. A second layer of photo albums would also have sort - order limitations, and would also require additional settings to prevent members using it rather than just moderators.

The idea of setting up an index page (which can be done
now) seems to attract little support; I just wish someone would tell me what is actually wrong with the idea. Yes; it requires work to set it up, but it works.

Chris

_______________________________________

Hallo Chris,

I am interested in the process.

Do you have a sample we could have a look at?

Some time ago I tried to do this and could not work out how to make links from File or Database to, say, attachments in the Photos section.


OK,

Tony

  


Ld Bonnie
 

I made several new Albums with alpha numeric titles. 001 Title, 002 Title, 003 Title etc. When members enter the Photo Section, by default, they see the camera Albums on the first page. From there on they are on their own.

As simple as this "Fix" is, it is a big improvement. Some will be grateful, some may be annoyed.

Some may be annoyed by the following question. :)

In making the new Albums I inadvertently put the wrong Photo in one of them. 

I'm embarrassed  to ask this, but how do you remove one Photo from an Album? Believe me, I tried. I can delete the entire Album but regardless of where I looked I could not find a link to delete one Photo. I suppose I could create a temporary Album, move individual photos into it, then delete the Album. 

Lorence