Duplicate Attachments


Barry
 

We are seeing duplicate attachments created here and there in our forum. Such duplicates occupy more space than needed and use up what space is available to us. At present I cannot see a way of removing such duplicate attachments without deleting the topics themselves, in which the attachments appear. This is not what anyone would wish to see take place. Regretably we now have a number of such duplicate attachments in the attachment list. Hopefully it might be possible for the service provider to resolve this problem. Currently this is not a major issue for us - but it does need looking into for sure, because it could easily become a problem in the future. IO rules surrounding (space constraints) apply to attachments as we know, which is the ludicrous situation we face.
 
I am concerned about this. One thread we have had recently was called "Winter Flying" . There are not many words in the thread but a number of excellent photos and one short MOV video. The thread with all its 4 attachments runs to 13Mb. It was great little thread and one we do not wish to lose. Having said this - we dont need 4 such attachments of this in our records. What can be done ? Asking members to trim each and every one of their replies before posting is not the answer. I need a way of deleting duplicate attachments when they occur or if a member adds, to an attachment (with another photo for instance/text) then instead of making another "fresh attachment" - the system should recognise the existing one is being added to and just add the next sequential photo into the order.

Who needs multiple attachments about the same topic ?

Barry.


Duane
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 05:26 PM, Barry wrote:
We are seeing duplicate attachments created here and there in our forum.
This is a long standing request that hasn't been addressed yet.  I suspect mainly because it's so difficult to be sure that the only attachments that are deleted are those that should be.  The current, and preferred, way to handle it is to teach members to remove an existing attachment when replying and/or adding another.

You can also set maximum sizes for images and/or resize them when they get uploaded, https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/viewing-and-managing-your-group-s-storage/managing-your-group-s-storage-space  This can be extremely useful for a group where the members don't reduce the file size before sending.  Some assume that everyone has unlimited bandwidth and/or storage, so don't pay any attention, even though most email programs/clients have the capability of "resizing for email" to reduce the problems.

If you search the messages here on GMF and on the beta group, you can read the discussions (and add your support on beta so that Mark will see it.)  There is information on how to delete the extraneous copies in the Owners Manual.  Start at https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/viewing-and-managing-your-group-s-storage/deleting-message-attachments-manually

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 06:26 PM, Barry wrote:
Asking members to trim each and every one of their replies before posting is not the answer.
Why not? 

A software solution to this problem is not as straightforward as it may first appear. Even a duplicate can be intentional ("Hey Jack, I lost the email with that file you sent earlier...can you resend?"). 

I need a way of deleting duplicate attachments when they occur or if a member adds, to an attachment (with another photo for instance/text) then instead of making another "fresh attachment" - the system should recognise the existing one is being added to and just add the next sequential photo into the order.
You can delete the dupes by editing the message containing it (you'll see "Delete" checkboxes next to each one). See https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-group-topics-and-messages/editing-the-content-of-messages-in-the 

Attachments may also be found directly via Admin>Billing (or Upgrade)>View Attachments. See https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/7120 

Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


 

Barry,

This has been discussed before and unfortunately having a way to automatically do this is not very reliable at best, for various technical reasons I won't get into here, you can search GMF or beta for "duplicate" and you'll find the previous posts.

>>> Asking members to trim each and every one of their replies before posting is not the answer.

Unfortunately it is.  Either that, or place the group in moderation (only for messages that have attachments) and have the mod(s) manually deleting the duplicate attachments before they approve the message.
 
You can notify the group that storage is at a premium so please don't do this, and notify repeat offenders that if they don't get their stuff together and keep on doing it, they will be placed on 100% moderation (regardless of whether their message has attachment or not) which will result in a delay before their messages get posted, which (usually) gets their attention; sometimes when dealing with certain problems in groups, tough love is really the only answer :)

>>> At present I cannot see a way of removing such duplicate attachments without deleting the topics themselves

Also, you don't have to delete the whole topic (or message for that matter) in order to remove the attachments, you can edit the message and delete the duplicate attachments leaving the message otherwise intact.

Cheers,
Christos



Barry
 

Bruce - no disrespect to my members, but their interest is not in replying in a way that does not complicate matters to do with any imposed storage limits. They are not interested in storage - they want to talk about their chosen interest/play with the kids/deal with their other halves etc etc. I think this is poor on IO architecture to design something to use up space and then holds groups to account, for using up space according to limits set in stone.

Duane - it doesnt seem as though there is an easy answer to this problem which is what I had hoped I had missed. I will look into all your referrals but if such referrals make too much work for me - then never mind my members, it will cause me an issue.

We are in a position where we have a bunch of people who basically want to talk about their interest (me included) and not have something in the background about to go ping on them because it has not been designed properly.

Be interesting to see what others have to say on the subject,

Barry. 


Duane
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 06:06 PM, Barry wrote:
because it has not been designed properly
I think it was designed properly for people that observe standard email protocol, such as trimming unnecessary clutter and/or only quoting the pertinent part of the original.  Unfortunately, there are too many people that aren't even aware that email etiquette exists.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 07:06 PM, Barry wrote:
No disrespect to my members, but their interest is not in replying in a way that does not complicate matters to do with any imposed storage limits.
Barry -- If this is your primary concern, groups.io can be set to automatically delete old attachments as you approach your storage limit. It's the last entry in the Message Policies tab in your group settings.

Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Barry
 

Christos - your last line sounds a useful way forwards. If deleting attachments in duplicates does not effect the original attachment (the one we wish to keep) -then this is a way forward. I run this forum on my own and time is at a premium for me and my members. Thanks also for the input of Bruce and Duane - barry. 


 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 07:06 PM, Barry wrote:
I think this is poor on IO architecture to design something to use up space and then holds groups to account, for using up space according to limits set in stone.

This is not GIO-specific architecture, as far as I know that's what everyone else also does, other group sites or email client software.

Cheers,
Christos


 

Barry,

>>> If deleting attachments in duplicates does not effect the original attachment (the one we wish to keep) -then this is a way forward.

Yes, it will not affect the original (thread/topic starter) message's attachment, not any other message's same attachment(s) for that matter; a duplicate attachment is only saved on the group's pages because it was physically attached to a separate message, and because GIO keeps track of which message a particular attachment belongs to, when you edit a message and delete the attachment(s) there, you are only deleting the copy of the attached file that was saved from that message, you won't be affecting the thread/topic starter which contains the "master" copy (if you will).

Of course that does mean that if let's say 10 people didn't bother to trim their reply and replied, hence sending back a copy of the same attachment(s), you'd have to edit each one of those 10 reply messages in order to remove the 10x duplicate attachment(s) ... that's why user education and some nagging and policy enforcement will help.  At the very least, you could work with the people who do this a lot and see if you can get them to change their reply settings in their email app to NOT include the original stuff, some apps have it on by default.

Cheers,
Christos



Barry
 

Christos - Regarding these multiple attachments - have tested out your suggestion of deleting them by clicking on one of the multiple attachments and making some changes. I edited one duplicate attachment and deleted the photo within it. "Yes" - the attachment has gone altogether from the listing (which is good news) but sadly we have lost the photo for good in all the other duplicates. In all the other duplicates we retain the narrative because I did not disturb that. Back to square one as I see it - one change effects all. Delete one photo - deletes attachment from listing (success) but also removes the photo form elsewhere (not a success). barry


Nivard Ovington
 

Hi Barry

I am unsure what you did as deleting a duplicate attachment does not alter the original

If you go to Admin > Upgrade it shows the amount of storage and how much you have used, see in brackets [View Attachments]

Which lists all the posts with attachments, its fairly easy to look down and check any that are more than one attachment, it may be a post had more than one but its easy to check

If you find one with multiple attachments of the same image, select the reply with a duplicate, under the reply select More (they call it a hamburger I believe) then Edit Message

Under it is a tick box for the attachment, tick it and under it select "Save without sending" (that does not send to the group but does inform the poster of the reply) or you can save and send to the group if required

above the tick boxes is a field to enter a reason for the edit

That does not effect the original post or any other duplicates but leaves the text of the reply

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 22/09/2020 08:51, Barry via groups.io wrote:
Christos - Regarding these multiple attachments - have tested out your suggestion of deleting them by clicking on one of the multiple attachments and making some changes. I edited one duplicate attachment and deleted the photo within it. "Yes" - the attachment has gone altogether from the listing (which is good news) but sadly we have lost the photo for good in all the other duplicates. In all the other duplicates we retain the narrative because I did not disturb that. Back to square one as I see it - one change effects all. Delete one photo - deletes attachment from listing (success) but also removes the photo form elsewhere (not a success). barry


Barry
 

Nivard - thankyou for coming back to me on this. Everything you say is correct including the fact, that by doing what you say, it leaves the text of the reply.
However this action removes the image from all other duplicates also and also from the original, even though the text remains intact on all. barry - lichfield uk


 

Barry,
 
Christos - Regarding these multiple attachments - have tested out your suggestion of deleting them by clicking on one of the multiple attachments and making some changes. I edited one duplicate attachment and deleted the photo within it. "Yes" - the attachment has gone altogether from the listing (which is good news) but sadly we have lost the photo for good in all the other duplicates. In all the other duplicates we retain the narrative because I did not disturb that. Back to square one as I see it - one change effects all. Delete one photo - deletes attachment from listing (success) but also removes the photo form elsewhere (not a success). barry
 
I don't know exactly what you did but you either didn't something quite the right way, or if you did things right, the only other explanation I can think of is you just happened to find a newly-introduced bug of some sort in this scenario.
 
Each mailed-in attachment in a message is separately-saved as a unique filename, so the deletion of one duplicate attachment in one message shouldn't delete all the other ones.  This is how it's supposed to work and as late as a month or so ago I did do this dupe-removing on a group I own and it worked just fine, so I don't know what else to tell you.
 
The only further help I can offer is for you to temporarily add me as a mod in your group, and then we can select a topic that has this duplicate problem and do the troubleshooting and see what happens.  If you want to go that route, please contact me off-list so we can set it up and find a time where both of us are available to test.
 
Cheers,
Christos


Barry
 

Christos and Nivard - have carried out the same exercise again with the same result - attachment duplicate photo deleted with the result of losing the photo in all duplicates and the original attachment with just the narrative remaining. Two photos now lost forever !! Cant carry on like this much longer - members will get upset with me deleting their material.

One point however was - when I ticked the duplicate attachment photo (under the photo) - I then went straight to "save without sending". I did not press the lower tab in red "Delete". 

Barry


Nivard Ovington
 

Hi Barry

There must be something odd about the photos you have or the way they are attached ?

Today I tidied up a few posts with duplicated (in one case seven repeats) from subscribers replying *with* the attachments

In all cases I deleted the duplicated attachment and saved without sending, in all cases it *only* deleted the one attachment, leaving the text of all replies and the original with the attachment

*Without* using the red delete which I believe deletes the whole reply

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 22/09/2020 20:14, Barry via groups.io wrote:
Christos and Nivard - have carried out the same exercise again with the same result - attachment duplicate photo deleted with the result of losing the photo in all duplicates and the original attachment with just the narrative remaining. Two photos now lost forever !! Cant carry on like this much longer - members will get upset with me deleting their material.
One point however was - when I ticked the duplicate attachment photo (under the photo) - I then went straight to "save without sending". I did not press the lower tab in red "Delete".
Barry


 

Barry, would by any chance those two messages you edited were both the 1st reply to each thread, in other words the second message on the list onscreen?

Cheers,
Christos


Barry
 

Christos - Yes, this could well be the case. There were 4 attachments in this case building up to become the largest. Two were large in content/two were smaller. I carried out the process on the two smaller ones each in turn and as best as I cuold maake out they were the first entries in each case. I am frightened to delete the third now because both of the remaining attachments contain much more which means more to lose. The idea you have put forward could be the answer but I have not yet worked out how to test this. I might make up a ficticious thread to test this (and tell the membership what is going on in the process) to establish the position - unless someone else such as you can say - "YES - BARRY THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN TAKE PLACE". barry   


Barry
 

Christos - If you think about this a bit deeper - it isnt as easy as it sounds on the basis of your logic/thinking. If you are correct that there are attachments here which are in effect are originals (which I have deleted but should not have been touched/deleted) . The photos at least have disappeared altogether. On this basis I agree that it is logical to delete only complete duplicates not partial ones in this way. In the case we are considering - we started with one small original thread with a photo - this was the starter. Then we had a second small one (appparently a duplicate but with another photo) but this duplicate did not have the first photo as part of it. Then we had the large one (call it the 3rd duplicate) with several new photos and an MOV video (albeit video quite small) . It was this point that the 2 previous replies/photos were all to be seen together for the first time. Finally we had another small reply created with no additional photos this time just narrative but all there to be seen again. This final duplication did not add much at all over the 3rd except for narrative.

For my money the only one I could have possibly deleted and not lost anything would have been (all the photos) in No4 . Do you agree ? None of this explains why duplicates are created in the first place and perhaps this is down to lack of trimming. I certainly do not think that when one finds duplicated that deleting them adhoc will result in what you are looking for. In my case had I deleted photos in No4 reply - I would still be looking at 3 duplicates in the stack instead of 4 - two of which would have had repeat photos.

All good stuff - hey !!

Barry. 


Barry
 

Christos - Further, I think the only duplicates that can be removed in this way are duplicates that have been created by the IO system with no photos attached in that particular reply. barry