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Comparison to FB & BAND groups

Dan Dudley
 

Hello, I've managed a Yahoo group site for a number of years, now we are exploring the possibility of using groups.io.

My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as opposed to Facebook and the BAND group platforms. Is there anyone here that has done a study of the main advantages of groups.io compared to the two other solutions mentioned?

My proposal is this coming Saturday morning, 3/07/2020.

Thanks!
Dan Dudley, Roger's Rangers, Inc.
www.rogersrangers.org

Frances
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 07:11 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as opposed to Facebook and the BAND group platforms. Is there anyone here that has done a study of the main advantages of groups.io compared to the two other solutions mentioned?

My proposal is this coming Saturday morning, 3/07/2020.
I belong to a couple of Facebook groups and quite a few Groups.io (Gio groups). 
There is no search on Facebook. The responses are all useless. No email notification about posts. No archive of messages. No files or database areas.

Not at all a replacement for Groups.io.

Frances
 
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Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

Dan Dudley
 

Thanks for your timely response!
Do you have any experience with the BAND group platform.
Dan

Frances
 
Edited

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 08:30 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
Do you have any experience with the BAND group platform.
No, but it seems to be aimed at the mobile user.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_(software)
Groups.io is in the beta testing stage of an iOS app, but use is through email and some through a group website.

Also some BAND groups are secret, according to the Wikipedia page.
That isn't possible in Groups.io. However you can choose not to be listed in the publicly accessible list of groups. And of course, you can require people to request to join.

Also Groups.io has terms of service that precludes some types of groups - 
https://groups.io/static/tos
Safe guarding intellectual property is important too. See types of groups not permitted:
https://groups.io/static/help#notpermitted

You might want to look at this wiki page on setting up a group. Quite a bit of customization possible. 
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Quick-Start-for-Group-Formation

And see overview of features - https://groups.io/static/features

Also there is the possibility of collecting dues, donations if you have a premium account.
Account types - https://groups.io/static/pricing

Frances


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Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

Dan Dudley
 

Do you like groups.io the best over all?

On March 5, 2020 8:40:08 PM "Frances" <frances@...> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 08:30 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
Do you have any experience with the BAND group platform.
No, but it seems to be aimed at the mobile user.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_(software)
Groups.io is in the beta testing stage of an iOS app, but use is through email and some through a group website.

Also some are secret - whatever that means in this context.

That isn't possible in Groups.io.

Also Groups.io has terms of service that precludes some types of groups - 
https://groups.io/static/tos
Safe guarding intellectual property is important too. See types of groups not permitted:
https://groups.io/static/help#notpermitted

You might want to look at this wiki page on setting up a group. Quite a bit of customization possible. 
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Quick-Start-for-Group-Formation

And see overview of features - https://groups.io/static/features

Also there is the possibility of collecting dues, donations if you have a premium account.
Account types - https://groups.io/static/pricing

Frances


--
Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers


Frances
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
Do you like groups.io the best over all?
I have not used BAND. However I find that Groups.io is flexible and works for a variety of my uses - several committee groups, an extended family group and a large travel forum migrated from YahooGroups. 

I like that I can go back to the message archive so I don't have to save messages in my email. I like that I can automate reminders of calendar events. I like the hashtags for organization of content. I don't use the database function but I do save files and write a wiki. 
And I use the polls. Haven't used the chat function yet. 

There are a couple of things still needed - an easier way to delete old messages, for example. But Mark is responsive and has a long history in this area. See this post - https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29653

But do check to see the previous links, especially about types of groups, pricing, features, etc.

Frances


--
Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers

Steve Hayes
 

On 5 Mar 2020 at 15:43, Dan Dudley wrote:

My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as opposed to
Facebook and the BAND group platforms. Is there anyone here that has done a
study of the main advantages of groups.io compared to the two other solutions
mentioned?
Quite a long time ago some members of a newsgroup, rec.arts.books decided to
migrate to Facebook. Newsgroups are not the same as mailing lists, as the
method of transport is slightly different, and they don't have subscribers --
anyone can find them and post in them.

The result of the migration was that both died. The newsgroup died because
some of its best members were no longer there, while the Facebook group died
because of the nature of Facebook. In Facebook you only see the messages that
Facebook wants to show you according to its algorithms, and so you can miss
important discussions. It also depends on the nature of your group and what
people are communicating about. If you don't mind seeing a random selection
of messages and relies, chosen be Facebook, then it shouldn't be a problem.
But if you ever want to refer to them again, you can search for hours and
never find them.

I have moved a couple of genealogy forums from Yahoo to groups.io, and a
couple from Rootsweb, a genealogy list server that closed a few days ago.
Some of them have equivalent Facebook groups, and the same thing applies.
Serious genealogists use mailing lists, because there are archive, and you
can keep copies of important messages on your own computer to refer to later
-- I have some going back to 1999 and even earlier.

In genealogy people often ask about a particular person or family, and
sometimes you can come across information that will help them years later. On
Facebook the chances of their seeing it would be virtually nil. In a mailing
list they are somewhat greater, and you can also e-mail them directly,
provided their e-mail address hasn't changed in the mean time. I have done
that quite often, and others have done it for me.

So a lot depends on the nature of your group, and what you discuss.

I know nothing about BAND groups -- this is the first I have heard of them.
What are they?



--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@...
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525

Glenn Glazer
 
Edited

On 3/5/2020 15:43, Dan Dudley wrote:
Hello, I've managed a Yahoo group site for a number of years, now we are exploring the possibility of using groups.io.

My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as opposed to Facebook and the BAND group platforms. Is there anyone here that has done a study of the main advantages of groups.io compared to the two other solutions mentioned?

My proposal is this coming Saturday morning, 3/07/2020.

Thanks!
Dan Dudley, Roger's Rangers, Inc.
www.rogersrangers.org

I know nothing of BAND, but I do manage several Facebook groups.

The main advantage to Facebook is the ease of inviting other Facebook members to the group and that Facebook is more visual in that in lends itself more to images, videos and weblinks. If I post a URL here, you will see just the URL. If I post it on Facebook, they will automatically unfurl a preview.

In every other way, groups.io is superior.

Best,

Glenn

--
[ad and political sig removed by moderator]

 

Dan Dudley
 

 BAND Groups is not based in the USA, it is owned by a private company in Korea. They have a very extensive contract including a disclaimer that they reserve the right to delete any of our content at their will. Being that they are not in the USA & have extremely limited customer service capabilities, I do not recommend this one no matter what small advantages they may have.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_(software)

Nivard Ovington
 

re the downsides of facebook

to add to what has already been said, someone can take exception to an individual or group and end up having them blocked or banned

facebook do not look into if it was a malicious reporting and getting your log in back can be impossible

I have never heard of BAND

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 06/03/2020 00:26, Frances wrote:
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 07:11 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as
opposed to Facebook and the BAND group platforms. Is there anyone
here that has done a study of the main advantages of groups.io
compared to the two other solutions mentioned?
My proposal is this coming Saturday morning, 3/07/2020.

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 06:11 PM, Dan Dudley wrote:
I've managed a Yahoo group site for a number of years, now we are exploring the possibility of using groups.io.

My task is to explain (to our group) why this is the best choice as opposed to Facebook and the BAND group platforms.
For those familiar with YG, pre-neo, GIO should be a good fit.  Some things are done differently, a few not at all, but the site is always changing, usually for the better.  Mark Fletcher, the site owner, is open to new features and improvements, as well as giving us feedback and updates on a regular basis.  Bugs are normally squashed in a day or two instead of weeks or months.  His originally stated goal was to make GIO the best groups site in the world.  Maybe a bit presumptuous, but certainly gaining a little every day.  I've been here with my groups a little over 5 years and have seen things grow tremendously - photos, databases, files, and a lot of small, but important, improvements.

I don't have (and never will) a FB account.  Too many security and privacy problems for me.  I was unaware of BAND, but it looks like an app which I couldn't use since I don't have a smart device that I'd be willing to use it on.

A couple of the seemingly lesser known selling points of GIO are that there is NO tracking and NO ads.  And sign up is a breeze compared to FB or YG, just enter an email address and confirm it.  In fact, sign up is so simple that some folks figure they must be missing something!

It should be obvious, but I'm a fan of GIO.  Yes, there are some things that I would like to see changed or improved, but I haven't found anything better (or even close any more.)

Duane
--
GMF's Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Help: https://groups.io/static/help
A few site FAQs: https://groups.io/static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions

Dan Dudley
 

Thank you Duane, Your input it is most appreciated! We are a small (but venerable) French and Indian War living history group, we've not got very much computer savvy amongst our older membership. We need something that replaces Yahoo, works with ease with as few unpleasant surprises as possible, groups.io seems to be it.
This forum has been such a pleasure to work with and the members are top shelf! Wish there was something I could do to reciprocate.
Thanks to all who responded to my request for support.
Dan 🙂

 

Dan,

comparing group sites, different folks set different priorities. And for me the following were the most important ones:

1. The possibility to store enormous amounts of information in files and databases in an orderly and systematic manner
2. The search function - finds subjects, members, messages
3. The systematic archiving of messages and the possibility to retrieve them at any time
4. Data security - no tracking, no collecting of data
5. No harassment by advertising
6. A continuous improvement of functions in exchange with the provider

There are innumerous more features I really appreciate about GIO, and for me it Is the best group site in the world, and I really took a good look before I moved from yahoo to GIO. I really liked yahoo as well, because it had some features like the first one I mentioned which other group sites don´t have. In some regards yahoo set standards which most former yahoo group owners seem to expect from GIO, and Mark, the provider, is working hard to comply.

What I really consider a drawback with GIO is the fact that it isn´t international like Yahoo was. Hopefully it will become multilingual one day.
--
Victoria
https://groups.io/g/cushinghundevital
https://groups.io/g/siebenkatzenleben

Marv Waschke
 

A fundamental advantage of groups.io is Mark Fletcher's straight forward business plan. He makes his living from premium subscriptions, not selling advertising or data. For me, a service with a transparent business plan that does not monetize itself through background activities buried in its Terms of Service is a breath of fresh air.
I observe that gio seems especially well suited to discussion and information sharing among members with a modicum of mutual trust. Gio is not a good platform for groups who want or need to be anonymous to other members.
Marv

Glenn Glazer
 

On 3/6/2020 08:38, Marv Waschke wrote:
A fundamental advantage of groups.io is Mark Fletcher's straight forward business plan. He makes his living from premium subscriptions, not selling advertising or data. For me, a service with a transparent business plan that does not monetize itself through background activities buried in its Terms of Service is a breath of fresh air.
I observe that gio seems especially well suited to discussion and information sharing among members with a modicum of mutual trust. Gio is not a good platform for groups who want or need to be anonymous to other members.
Marv

To your first point, I could not agree more. To the second, anonymity could be arranged by creating a new email account (e.g., through gmail) and subscribing to the list via that.  I have an alias that I use in a particular community and I only use that gmail address for those activities. Nobody there knows who I actually am.

Best,

Glenn

--
[political sig and ad trimmed by moderator]

 

The Review Crew
 

Another drawback to FB groups is that content AND THE GROUP ITSELF is subject to deletion by FB without notice. Also, the group admin can be blocked from posting without notice if a member complains to FB about something.
 
I used Yahoo groups for years, and am fairly new to io, but I think this platform seems superior in every way.
 
Kimberlee

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 6:41 AM Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@...> wrote:

re the downsides of facebook

to add to what has already been said, someone can take exception to an
individual or group and end up having them blocked or banned

facebook do not look into if it was a malicious reporting and getting
your log in back can be impossible

I have never heard of BAND

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)
[excess quote trimmed by moderator]

Marv Waschke
 

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 09:35 AM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
To the second, anonymity could be arranged by creating a new email account (e.g., through gmail) and subscribing to the list via that.  I have an alias that I use in a particular community and I only use that gmail address for those activities. Nobody there knows who I actually am.
That works, I have done it myself, but there are more convenient ways to set up anonymous forums. For a person to remain relatively anonymous in a gio forum, the individual has to make an effort to be anonymous. If you want a forum that is by default anonymous, setting up a website with anonymous comments is one way that is relatively easy and doesn't require as much effort by the individual participant. I have to say, that in general, anonymity can have nasty side effects and I would think seriously before setting up an anonymous forum. That being said, total anonymity in this day is a difficult task. Ask any convicted hacker.
Best, Marv