Topics

How to locate members with recent bounce activity #bouncingemails

John Pearce
 

We have about 900 members brought over from Yahoo with the paid move feature that are on "special only" email settings and 99% have yahoo addresses.  These used to be nomail in yahoo but I eliminated that option with groups.io.  This way people who no longer wish to belong to the group start getting emails to remind them of us.  Many mark emails from us as spam and are removed, some unsubscribe.  Many went into bounce status as the account no longer existed or are disabled.  We were sucessful in finding those disabled accounts because during the initial move we had numerous "special notice" emails explaining the move, giving non technical members instructions on how to do things, etc.  There was enough traffic in special only accounts to activate groups.io bounce processing.  However now special delivery only see's one email per month and that isn't enough to kick off the bounce process.  So as yahoo disables more and more accounts, people close accounts, etc they build up again.

I've partially gone through the member list selecting those with the special setting one at a time and looked at "email delivery history".  I located a few and removed them.  But 900?  Is there a way to find these dead accounts more easily with a more automated method?  I downloaded the member list to see if there is any field there to indicate any bounce activity but that only includes the members settings, which makes sense.  I could possibly send enough special notices in a day or week to trigger the bounce processing but I've no idea how much activity I would need to generate.  I would rather not do that so as not to bother the entire membership.

John P

Frances
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 02:07 PM, John Pearce wrote:
I've partially gone through the member list selecting those with the special setting one at a time and looked at "email delivery history".  I located a few and removed them.  But 900?  Is there a way to find these dead accounts more easily with a more automated method?  I downloaded the member list to see if there is any field there to indicate any bounce activity but that only includes the members settings, which makes sense.  I could possibly send enough special notices in a day or week to trigger the bounce processing but I've no idea how much activity I would need to generate.  I would rather not do that so as not to bother the entire membership.

Go to Admin Members. Use the drop down menu to choose Bouncing. 

There are two pages in the GMF wiki about bouncing. 


Frances
 
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Duane
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 01:07 PM, John Pearce wrote:
However now special delivery only see's one email per month and that isn't enough to kick off the bounce process.
It only takes one.  See the details at https://groups.io/static/help#bouncing  It would take much longer for them to change from Bouncing (blue B) to Bounced (red B), as well as to remove the Bouncing (blue B), but the process is the same.

Duane
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John Pearce
 
Edited

Thank you Francis,

I certainly don't explain things well enough, I seriously need to work on that.  I had read about bouncing and how that works, but the wiki does talk about 4 consecutive days of bouncing under some circumstances before they are placed in bounce status and show up in the member list under the bouncing drop down choice.  My problem is, those who are on special notices only in our group only get one email per month.  It bounces but it isn't enough to trigger the bounce status in the member list as it does not satisfy the 4 continuous days of bouncing.  So these types will build up in the list forever.  Apparently if a account is closed that would trigger bouncing but if an account is disabled it's not for 4 days.  See cut and paste from an a guy who just came on bounce status today.  This guy did take 4 days to show up and it was placed on bounce status.  However had he been on special notice it would never happen.  Any way to get this error from yahoo to be interpreted as permanent so that they can trigger bouncing status after just one, or another way to find the once a month guys without having to go through every member individually?

Message
Digest #48
Delivered
Jan 17
Response
ok dirdel

Most Recent Unsuccessful Attempt

No email deliveries

Recent Bounces

When Message Reason
2:59am Digest #53 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4266.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 21 Bounce probe mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4018.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Jan 20 Digest #52 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4362.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 20 Digest #51 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4080.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 19 Digest #50 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Jan 18 Digest #49 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4463.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

John Pearce
 

Thank you Duane, but see my response to Francis.  Sorry my question was not clear.

John

Frances
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 07:41 PM, John Pearce wrote:
Thank you Francis,

I certainly don't explain things well enough, I seriously need to work on that.  I had read about bouncing and how that works, but the wiki does talk about 4 consecutive days of bouncing under some circumstances before they are placed in bounce status and show up in the member list under the bouncing drop down choice.  My problem is, those who are on special notices only in our group only get one email per month.  It bounces but it isn't enough to trigger the bounce status in the member list as it does not satisfy the 4 continuous days of bouncing.  So these types will build up in the list forever.  Apparently if a account is closed that would trigger bouncing but if an account is disabled it's not for 4 days.  See cut and paste from an a guy who just came on bounce status today. 
I agree, with people who are Special Notices only, it is a challenge to deal with bouncing. As you say, the sticking point will be to have four consecutive days for "testing" the bounce status by the system.

Of course, you can ignore it! You will have an inflated number of members, though.

Anyone else with ideas?

Frances

 
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Duane
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 06:41 PM, John Pearce wrote:
the wiki does talk about 4 consecutive days of bouncing under some circumstances
That needs to be corrected or clarified.  It's supposed to be the fifth consecutive bounce, not days, that puts them in Bounced (red B) status.  The first should put them in Bouncing (blue B).

Duane
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Bruce Bowman
 

John -- Your screenshot shows a 554 "disabled mailbox" delivery error. Yahoo has lately been doing this with email addresses whose owners haven't logged in or sent any messages for more than a year. This is a "hard bounce" and should have put that account into Bouncing status right away. Why it didn't is difficult for me to understand. 

As you noted, a 400-level or lower is a "soft bounce", and using the groups.io bounce algorithm, might never trigger Bouncing status, especially if the account isn't subscribed to receive group messages on a regular basis. 

I understand your desire to purge inactive accounts. However, there are no tools at your disposal to fine-tune groups.io's bounce handling.

For any particular subscription, you can send direct mail to the account. From the perspective of bounce handling, groups.io will treat those messages like any other message and perhaps tip things over the edge. To do so, just open any suspicious member record and check Email Delivery History. If bounces are shown, click the Send Message button at the bottom of the page and compose a message asking them if they still want to be in your group. If they don't respond, or several such attempts throw that subscription into Bouncing status, you have your answer.

There is no way to screen subscriptions en masse. You have to open them and do this one by one.

Failing that, consider manually changing all your Special Notices people to Individual Messages for some time period. Those who actually exist may be irritated by that, requiring you to beg their forgiveness. But I suspect you'll discover that 80-90% of these Special Notice people with Yahoo email addresses aren't really active.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 08:32 PM, I wrote:
There is no way to screen subscriptions en masse. You have to open them and do this one by one.
To clarify:  There is no way to export or otherwise view the Email Delivery History for all your subscribers at once. A search of the Activity Log (select "Bounced" from the Actions pull-down) will show those who have actually gone into Bouncing status, but "soft" bounces will not be captured here, nor does it provide the SMTP error codes. 

Regards,
Bruce

John Pearce
 

Thank you Bruce.  I did understand from your last reply that there is no way to quickly extract email delivery history.  You did mention that 500 levels 'should' have been caught on one bounce but as you can see from this one example that didn't happen until about 5 I think.  Anyway as you can see 900 people are difficult to go through.  I did this one by one once already, and at the time there was just over 1400 special members.  I found over 500 that were bouncing, but only once per month so they would never be brought to our attention easily by displaying bouncing members in the member list.  I deleted those 500 hence the 900 members you see me quoting now.  I don't wish to do that again.  I think since you feel that a 500 level code should have been caught after one I will post to the beta group.  Maybe someone there might be able to be certain this type of bounce code triggers the bounce processing immediately.  Provided there are no overwhelming reasons not to.  You and Duane are much appreciated by me and from what I've read, the membership in general.

John Pearce

Duane
 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 01:03 AM, John Pearce wrote:
You did mention that 500 levels 'should' have been caught on one bounce but as you can see from this one example that didn't happen until about 5 I think.
That's covered under the disclaimer on the Help page.  Although it looks clear cut, GIO can't be sure the account doesn't exist.  It may be a temporary glitch at the email service, so GIO considers it a soft bounce instead of a hard bounce.  I've seen a couple of cases where this was true, so erring on the safe side is probably the best choice.

As a reminder, once GIO decides that it's bouncing, the bounce probe is sent every 3 days, up to 4 tries, regardless of delivery settings.  If the 4th fails, the account goes into Bounced status.

Duane
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Bruce Bowman
 

Well John, I noticed that Mark not only allowed your bug report on this topic to post but also added a "fixed" hashtag!

Hopefully this means that any future Yahoo bounces of this "554 mailbox is disabled" nature will be treated as a "hard bounce" and those accounts will go into Bouncing status right away.

Bruce

 

John,

I downloaded the member list to see if there is any field there to
indicate any bounce activity but that only includes the members
settings, which makes sense.
There is a column for bounce status:

"User Status (0=Not Confirmed, 1=Confirmed, 2=Inactive, 3=Bouncing, 4=Bounced)"

But no information about bounce activity, just the conclusion.

Shal


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John Pearce
 

Thank you Shal,

I saw that field, it's just that the type of bounce I'm talking about is only visible at the moment in email delivery history, the user status has not reached 2 or 3 yet.  However that may have changed due to a post from Mark that might indicate a change has been or will be made.

John

Jonathan Sivier
 

It looks like this may be the case now. I had 2 list members start bouncing (blue B) yesterday. Looking at their email delivery history it looks like they had been bouncing messages for over a month, at least 10 messages, without being marked as bouncing. Both had the 554 error messages on all their bounces.

Jonathan

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 02:48 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Well John, I noticed that Mark not only allowed your bug report on this topic
to post but also added a "fixed" hashtag!

Hopefully this means that any future Yahoo bounces of this "554 mailbox is
disabled" nature will be treated as a "hard bounce" and those accounts will go
into Bouncing status right away.

Bruce