Topics

Inhibit users from using "Delete message" #issue #messages #howto


Raphael Vowles on IO
 

I am a moderator on a recently imported Yahoo Group, We don't allow "Delete Message" to regular members, Not even their own message.

The Hamburger More Menu at the bottom of messages on the web site allows a "Delete Message" option 
Question: How can I inhibit this option?
It causes serious difficulty for the archive of messages that has been running since the late 1990's. An archive of over 100,00 messages - each one "carefully stored and protected",

I've looked at settings and in this group's messages and can find no mention. Can anyone show me where this might be possible. I am happy that Moderator can delete messages, That's fine.

To preempt any queries I confirm that we really really do want to avoid members deleting their own messages.
Thanks for looking.


Frances
 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 06:39 PM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
I am a moderator on a recently imported Yahoo Group, We don't allow "Delete Message" to regular members, Not even their own message.

The Hamburger More Menu at the bottom of messages on the web site allows a "Delete Message" option 
Question: How can I inhibit this option?
It causes serious difficulty for the archive of messages that has been running since the late 1990's. An archive of over 100,00 messages - each one "carefully stored and protected",

I've looked at settings and in this group's messages and can find no mention. Can anyone show me where this might be possible. I am happy that Moderator can delete messages, That's fine.

To preempt any queries I confirm that we really really do want to avoid members deleting their own messages.
Thanks for looking.
Have you tested to see whether you can see delete message in this group?

I just looked at Beta (I am a member there only), and I don't see the dropdown menu below a message.

A test worth doing!

Frances
 
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Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 06:39 PM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
The Hamburger More Menu at the bottom of messages on the web site allows a "Delete Message" option 
Question: How can I inhibit this option?
Raphael -- I'm not aware of any group setting that will keep your subscribers from deleting their own messages.

You can inhibit editing, but not deleting.

Bruce


Duane
 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 05:39 PM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
Can anyone show me where this might be possible.
It isn't possible on GIO.  There's been a lot of discussion about it on the beta group. In the end, it may be illegal to keep someone from deleting their own messages, especially in Europe with GDPR.

Duane
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Raphael,

I am a moderator on a recently imported Yahoo Group, We don't allow
"Delete Message" to regular members, Not even their own message.
You may tell them not to, but there's no option to actually prevent them from doing so. Not in Yahoo Groups and not in Groups.io either.

*Question*: How can I inhibit this option?
...
I am happy that Moderator can delete messages, That's fine.
Perhaps ironically you /can/ prevent a moderator from deleting other members' messages by denying the moderator the Edit Archives permission. In Yahoo Groups you couldn't do that.

Shal


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Raphael Vowles on IO
 

Here is a sample of the morr menu


Raphael Vowles on IO
 

Hey Frances. Ive just looked on beta. I see the More menu at the foot of all messages. What are you looking at?

You've got me confused. Are you telling me the option is available on beta. Is it coming. Do you even know? 

This is vital.


Raphael Vowles on IO
 

Sorry mate. You have got the GDPR thing slightly wrong. GDPR requires the ability for a user to REQUEST removal of messages. It does Not require users ability to remove messages personally.
 So that is the GDPR justification removed.

Are you able to throw more light on the "discussions" and resurrect the development effort. Whom do i talk to to progress this???


Samuel Murray
 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:39 AM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
I am a moderator on a recently imported Yahoo Group, We don't allow "Delete Message" to regular members, Not even their own message.
I assume you mean that there was a setting in your Yahoogroups group that disallowed members from deleting messages.  Can you tell me where that option is?  I'm also a YG moderator, and I can't see such an option anywhere.

Samuel


Samuel Murray
 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 01:46 PM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
You have got the GDPR thing slightly wrong. GDPR requires the ability for a user to REQUEST removal of messages. It does not require users ability to remove messages personally.
I'm not sure how much of the GDPR angle is speculation, but either way: you're right in that GDPR may not require that users have the right to remove content personally. They do, however, have the right to request that Groups.io stop distributing it, and when they request it, the request must be met, unless there is a legally valid reason to deny the request.  So... if users can always request this, and if their requests always have to be met, then I think it's just common sense (from an administrative perspective) to give users that ability directly.  It reduces paperwork.

Samuel


John Russell
 

Hi,

In addition to the EU Law (GDPR), with its famous "right to be forgotten", as well as the right to privacy, California is introducing a new privacy law (CCPA) as of 1 January 2020. It seems clear that CCPA does not apply to non-profits, which is probably the majority of the forums on Groups.io :-

https://www.dataprotectionreport.com/2018/08/california-consumer-privacy-act-blog-series-covered-entities/

The EU law has a wider application in terms of type of business, but only to personal information. I know that Groups.io was made GDPR compliant, according to statements made by the owner of Groups.io (after consulting lawyers) and you can read the relevant policy here :- https://groups.io/static/compliance

The good news is that businesses that are already GDPR compliant will have no issues with the new California Law (CCPA), according to this article :-

https://www.dataprotectionreport.com/2018/09/ccpa-extends-right-to-deletion-to-california-residents/

Given all of this legal activity in both the EU and the US, I would recommend that groups follow the spirit of the law (allow members to delete their own content, as well as their account), rather than invite disputes that can only be resolved by the courts, even if you think that you would win in court.

By the way, I am not a lawyer. Please consult a lawyer if you are not sure of your need to comply with any of these new laws - GDPR since May 2018 and CCPA in January 2020.

Regards

John Russell

[Mod Note: We will allow limited discussion of legal issues as they directly relate to groups.io features. If this escalates the topic will be locked.]


Duane
 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 06:46 AM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
Are you able to throw more light on the "discussions" and resurrect the development effort. Whom do i talk to to progress this?
I believe the most recent discussion is the one at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/34280436

Duane
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Raphael Vowles on IO
 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 06:49 AM, Duane wrote:
Thank you Duane, You said: I believe the most recent discussion is the one at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/34280436
I shall take this discussion to Beta. I think we have established that right now, users cannot be inhibited from deleting their own messages.
GIO already has GDPR compliance. However, the facility is still desired by this (my) group.
To effect a means to do this properly,  would require some changes. viz.
  • Group settings, (Unsubscribe member delete/keep), (If delete allowed.)
  • moderator privileges, -to delete messages. Probably defaults to NO
  • user privileges, - probably defaults to YES but subject to group settings
  • bulk delete from Member Message Search
  • an evidence trail for compliance proof and audit
  • consideration about if/how a deleted message is evidenced in messages. "This message was removed by subscriber" etc,

That completes this topic here. See you in beta. This conversation risks falling in to a debate and is not helpful.
I trust it is OK to summarise the topic in this way.

Dear moderators - please lock this topic because it is transferring elsewhere more relevant.
Thank you for all for looking. Raphael


Frances
 
Edited

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 07:46 AM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
Hey Frances. Ive just looked on beta. I see the More menu at the foot of all messages. What are you looking at?

You've got me confused. Are you telling me the option is available on beta. Is it coming. Do you even know? 

This is vital.
Okay, nothing about EU privacy rules!

Please note - this is incorrect. I was wrong. Plain wrong. My testing method was incorrect.

I just tested and if you disable editing, you disable deleting. Both on my laptop and on my iPhone.

This is true in Beta, both on my laptop (Mac) and on my iPhone, I do NOT get a delete message option on a particular message. (I am not talking about exporting, but just the option to delete a specific email.) 
I can delete on GMF.
 
In Admin, Settings, Message Policies.

Further down, there is also a checkbox - Allow Members To Download Archives
Allow group members to download the message archives.

Frances
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Duane
 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:46 PM, Frances wrote:
if you disable editing, you disable deleting.
Nope.  Editing is disabled on beta, but I can still delete my own messages.

Duane
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Samuel,

They do, however, have the right to request that Groups.io stop
distributing it, and when they request it, the request must be met,
unless there is a legally valid reason to deny the request.
There is.

The user has granted Groups.io a perpetual and irrevocable license to display the content. See the "User Content Transmitted Through the Service" section of the TOS.

Shal


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Raphael Vowles on IO
 

Thank you Duane for clarifying deleting ones OWN MESSAGES on beta.
Frances says it is disabled. It evidently is not disabled. Do you know Frances?

Hey Frances - where do you get this evidence??? Are you attempting to delete someone else's message?
If so you are missing the point and causing unhelpful expectations. I have just spent 3 hours hunting down your assertions. Duh.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:46 PM, Frances wrote:
if you disable editing, you disable deleting.
Nope.  Editing is disabled on beta, but I can still delete my own messages.

Duane


Frances
 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:57 PM, Raphael Vowles wrote:
Nope.  Editing is disabled on beta, but I can still delete my own messages.
I'm dreadfully sorry. The crucial point is that it must be my own message. 
Apologies. I did test it but on Beta and since I have no recent messages there, it wasn't a proper test.

With editing turned off, if you open your own message on the website, you can edit it with the "more" menu.

Again, I am very sorry to waste your time chasing this up. 

Frances

 
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FAQ on Moving from YahooGroups
GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers