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time zone question

Patti
 

Hi! My first large group just transferred to groups.io (yay!) and I got a question today about time zones. I know that there has been a discussion of this, but I am not clear on what exactly is being said, because there is a reference to "default sub settings" which I do not have. On the calendar page, it has the correct time zone. I am seeing the correct time zone on the messages I receive, but one person (so far) sent me an email saying the time zone was wrong.

I read that this is a user account setting, but what if the user does not have an account because they just read the emails and do not want the web functionality? does that mean they have no control over the time zone?

Thanks for any help!

Patti

 

Patti,

​...there is a reference to "default sub settings" which I do not have.

​That's a tab on the group's Settings page.​ But it wouldn't help you in this case because the time zone setting there is only a default for users who are brand new to Groups.io and didn't have that set already at the time they joined your group.

... one person (so far) sent me an email saying the time zone was wrong.

​Did he/she specify where they are seeing the wrong time zone?
I read that this is a user account setting,

​Correct. It controls the dates and times shown to the member when logged into Groups.io's web pages.
but what if the user does not have an account because they just read the emails

​It is a technical detail, but if they are subscribed to a group they do have an account. They may not have used it or set a password for it, but in a technical sense it is there, ready for them when they do want to log in.
​... ​
and do not want the web functionality? does that mean they have no control over the time zone?

​I think that is both correct and unimportant. That is, I think their account's time zone affects only what they would see on the web. Events have their own time zones, and I think that would control what they receive in notices and reminders by email.

It has been a long while since I've really dug into the calendar though, so I may stand corrected if someone knows for sure.

Shal


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Patti
 

On Friday, July 13, 2018, 4:17:39 PM EDT, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


>>That's a tab on the group's Settings page. But it wouldn't help you in this case because the time zone setting there is only a default for users who are brand new to Groups.io and didn't have that set already at the time they joined your group.

Ok, I found this tab and it was indeed set to Pacific time, not Eastern time, so I changed it. The calendar already was using Eastern time. But, she has reported that this did affect anything on her end.


>>Did he/she specify where they are seeing the wrong time zone?

She said this when asked "I was looking on the website. I did my post at 11:48 (not 8:48AM) using the web site interface. I just refreshed the screen and it is still 8:48."

>>Correct. It controls the dates and times shown to the member when logged into Groups.io's web pages.

Where is this control? I looked around but did not find it - but I am getting mixed up between the group settings and my own personal setting
>>I think that is both correct and unimportant. That is, I think their account's time zone affects only what they would see on the web.

This is exactly what is happening, so if you know - or anyone else -  how to tell her to change it, I would appreciate it!

Patti

 

Patti,

>>
​ ​... But it wouldn't help you in this case because the time zone setting there is only a default for users who are brand new to Groups.io and didn't have that set already at the time they joined your group.

Ok, I found this tab and it was indeed set to Pacific time, not Eastern time, so I changed it. The calendar already was using Eastern time. But, she has reported that this did affect anything on her end.

​As I said, too late for her. The Default Sub Settings are only applied to a subscriber at the moment they join your group.
>>Did he/she specify where they are seeing the wrong time zone?

She said this when asked "I was looking on the website. I did my post at 11:48 (not 8:48AM) using the web site interface. I just refreshed the screen and it is still 8:48."

​Ok. Then she is logged in to the site, and she can change her own Timezone setting. And only she can change it:
  • From the drop-menu under her name on the upper right select Account.
  • On the left select the Preferences page.
  • At the top select her preferred Timezone.
  • At the bottom click the blue Update Preferences button.

Where is this control? I looked around but did not find it -

You cannot control the timezone she sees on the group's pages. She has to follow the instructions above for herself.
but I am getting mixed up between the group settings and my own personal setting

​There are three types of settings. Those you access through your Account page​ affect apply everywhere on Groups.io. Those you access through your Subscription page apply to you as a subscriber to the particular group you are looking at. Those you (as an owner/mod) access through the Settings page applies to the entire group.

Well, there's that fourth page, Default Sub Settings, which is a template (or default) used to fill in the Subscription page of each new subscriber that joins your group. It doesn't control anything directly, it just gets copied to the new member's Subscription page as his/her subscription (aka membership) is created.
Shal


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Michael Pavan
 

​As I said, too late for her. The Default Sub Settings are only applied to a subscriber at the moment they join your group.
Does this mean that all subscribers that did not join Groups.io before subscribing to a group are stuck with Pacific time, unless they then go online to correct it at:
Account: Preferences: Timezone
That would be all subscribers of all my groups, except myself and 2 members of 1 group that joined before they got transferred from a YahooGroups...


​There are three types of settings.

Those you access through your Account page​ affect apply everywhere on Groups.io.
OK, Account: Preferences: Timezone


Those you access through your Subscription page apply to you as a subscriber to the particular group you are looking at.
I do not see this in Subscription (it wasn’t there when I looked at my 10 groups or the 3 groups I am not the Owner of: GroupManagersForum, beta | main, or updates)...


Those you (as an owner/mod) access through the Settings page applies to the entire group.
As Owner I do not see a Timezone setting at Admin: Settings
If I can find this Timezone setting how does it apply to the entire group, but it is too late for any subscriber that did not set their Timezone before the moment they joined any of my groups?


Well, there's that fourth page, Default Sub Settings, which is a template (or default) used to fill in the Subscription page of each new subscriber that joins your group. It doesn't control anything directly, it just gets copied to the new member's Subscription page as his/her subscription (aka membership) is created.
Where is this?
Will it correct, by pre-setting a subscriber’ Timezone, so that it is correct at the moment they join one of my Groups?

 

Michael,

Does this mean that all subscribers that did not join Groups.io before
subscribing to a group are stuck with Pacific time, unless they then
go online to correct it ...
No, it means when they subscribe to their first group they get set to the Timezone in that group's Default Sub Settings. But only the first group - after that they already have a set time zone, and the default offered by other groups does not apply.

​There are three types of settings.
...
Those you access through your Subscription page apply to you as a
subscriber to the particular group you are looking at.
I do not see this in Subscription (it wasn’t there when I looked at my
10 groups or the 3 groups I am not the Owner of: GroupManagersForum,
beta | main, or updates)...
Timezone isn't there and shouldn't be. Timezone is not a per-group setting.

In this part of my message I was speaking generically about settings, not intending to imply anything about Timezone in particular.

Those you (as an owner/mod) access through the Settings page applies
to the entire group.
As Owner I do not see a Timezone setting at Admin: Settings
Again, it is not supposed to be.

Well, there's that fourth page, Default Sub Settings, ...
Where is this?
It is a tab on your group's Settings page.

Will it correct, by pre-setting a subscriber’ Timezone, so that it is
correct at the moment they join one of my Groups?
Only if yours is the first group they joined, and they did not previously set their timezone through their Account Preferences page. Also note that "correct" here means whatever you think your group members' Timezone should be - someone who joins from another area may not agree, and can go in to their Account Preferences and /correct/ their timezone for where they actually reside.

Note that this makes the Timezone (and Time Display and Date Display) different from the other settings on that page. The others /are/ Subscription (group-specific) settings and will not carry over to other groups that person might join.

Shal


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Patti
 

On Friday, July 13, 2018, 6:14:49 PM EDT, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


>>As I said, too late for her. The Default Sub Settings are only applied to a subscriber at the moment they join your group.

Well darn, then the entire group (except for people that have online accounts) will be set to Pacific when we primarily live in Eastern. 8-(

>>Ok. Then she is logged in to the site, and she can change her own Timezone setting. And only she can change it:
  • From the drop-menu under her name on the upper right select Account.
  • On the left select the Preferences page.
  • At the top select her preferred Timezone.
  • At the bottom click the blue Update Preferences button.
Great - thanks - I will pass this on to her so she can change it!

>>There are three types of settings. Those you access through your Account page affect apply everywhere on Groups.io. Those you access through your Subscription page apply to you as a subscriber to the particular group you are looking at. Those you (as an owner/mod) access through the Settings page applies to the entire group.

>>Well, there's that fourth page, Default Sub Settings, which is a template (or default) used to fill in the Subscription page of each new subscriber that joins your group. It doesn't control anything directly, it just gets copied to the new member's Subscription page as his/her subscription (aka membership) is created.

Ok, it is late and I need to mull on exactly what this all means and explore the three places and see what mess I have created. 8-(

Thanks as always!

Patti

Patti
 

On Friday, July 13, 2018, 10:36:54 PM EDT, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

>>No, it means when they subscribe to their first group they get set to
the Timezone in that group's Default Sub Settings. But only the first
group - after that they already have a set time zone, and the default
offered by other groups does not apply.

Now I feel really bad, since many of the people in the group I just transferred were newbies and I messed them up. I know, this is a good reason to have an online account, but I know you also know that many folks do not want to be bothered with another password to remember.

But, thanks as always for the help!!

Patti

Michael Pavan
 

My groups are all in the Eastern (US) Timezone.
The events all take place in the Eastern (US) Timezone.
However checking the Calendar with an email address of mine (that was transferred from YahooGroups as an email subscriber only and just today became a web access member) I find that events (real people gathering in person in real places) which all take place in the Eastern (US) Timezone are listed with Pacific Timezone times!
All of my groups were set up in the Eastern (US) Timezone for real people gathering in person in real places - to have Pacific Timezone foist on them by default is not appropriate. The fix as is requires all non-Pacific Timezone people to get web access (theoretically easy, but awkward for many if not most users) and make the correction(s).

This is a bad default.
I get that it makes sense to people from many timezones who are just gathering online (rather than in person) to have the time in their personal real time…

But the default should be that subscribers/members are in each group’s Timezone, rather than in the Pacific Timezone - which is Pacific Time chauvinist. ;-}
Or at least it should be a Group Owner setting to choose if a group is a Real Timezone or Virtual Timezone group!

No, it means when they subscribe to their first group they get set to
the Timezone in that group's Default Sub Settings. But only the first
group - after that they already have a set time zone, and the default
offered by other groups does not apply.

Now I feel really bad, since many of the people in the group I just transferred were newbies and I messed them up. I know, this is a good reason to have an online account, but I know you also know that many folks do not want to be bothered with another password to remember.

Duane
 

Michael,

You (and each member) can set any time zone you like for viewing your calendar at the bottom right.  There has to be some sort of default if nothing is chosen, so PST is as good as any.  I believe the calendar used to be tied to the group TZ setting, but that caused problems for some people, so now it's a separate setting for the calendar.  Basically another option to make the groups as flexible as possible.

Duane
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Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/14/2018 12:15, Duane wrote:
You (and each member) can set any time zone you like for viewing your calendar at the bottom right.  There has to be some sort of default if nothing is chosen, so PST is as good as any.

I agree that there should be a default, but I don't agree that it should be PST.  It should be UTC, because being the default tz is what UTC was created for: to be the standard.  It is used as the default in most scientific and astronomical uses, as well as referenced  IETF protocols such as NTP.

And this comes from someone who lives in PST and would find PST more convenient if it were only about me.
 
Best,

Glenn


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Michael,

But the default should be that subscribers/members are in each group’s
Timezone,
That is the default.

Provided that you set it up in the Default Sub Settings tab of your group's Settings page /before/ those people joined your group - and if yours is the first group they joined.

Shal


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Patti,

Now I feel really bad, since many of the people in the group I just
transferred were newbies and I messed them up.
Don't fret about it - if they aren't using the group's web pages their Timezone setting doesn't really affect anything.

I know, this is a good reason to have an online account, but I know
you also know that many folks do not want to be bothered with another
password to remember.
No password required! On the Log In page choose "Email me a link to log in". Receive the message, click the link in it, and you're logged in.

Even though I do have a password for my Account, I find the emailed link a lot more convenient on my smartphone than trying to enter my (strong) password on a touchscreen.

Shal


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Duane, Glenn,

I agree that there should be a default, but I don't agree that it
should be PST. It should be UTC, ...
Actually I think it should default to one's Account timezone. If I had the gumption I'd go check to see if it isn't.

And maybe with a nearby link to your Account timezone, so you can change that if that's what you really intend.

Shal


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Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/14/2018 13:45, Shal Farley wrote:
Duane, Glenn,

I agree that there should be a default, but I don't agree that it
should be PST.  It should be UTC, ...
Actually I think it should default to one's Account timezone. If I had the gumption I'd go check to see if it isn't.

And maybe with a nearby link to your Account timezone, so you can change that if that's what you really intend.

Shal
I agree that would be best, good thought outside of the notion of "a" default.

Best,

Glenn