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Create a new role

Glenn Glazer
 

Hi, all.

On our committee list, we do not do any moderation at all.  However, some members should have more power over the other features (specifically calendar) than others.

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board" or "EBoard", assign members to that role and then privileges only to that role.

Is this possible?

Thanks,

Glenn

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:00 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate? Seems like a lot of work (for Mark) just to avoid using the word "moderator".

You could always make them (co)owners...

Chris

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:07, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:00 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate? Seems like a lot of work (for Mark) just to avoid using the word "moderator".

You could always make them (co)owners...

Chris
_._,_._,_

Moderators is inappropriate because, wait for it, they don't moderate and the even the implication that the speech of our members is moderated is against the culture of the group.  And I can see use cases for other kinds of roles in addition to just {member, moderator, owner} for some groups.  For example, a group might have a separate set of members who manage their databases or their files.  For reference, I see this from a UNIX RBAC perspective, which permits an arbitrary number of roles.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-based_access_control .

That said, the answer to the question I actually asked is apparently no?

Best,

Glenn


[ad trimmed by moderator]

 

Glenn,

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new
role called "Executive Board" or "EBoard", assign members to that role
and then privileges only to that role.
There's no feature to create new roles, but you might be able to get the effect you want by using a subgroup for the Executive Board.

The calendar of the Executive Board subgroup can be set to "Public can view, Subscribers can view and edit". That would allow only members of the Executive Board subgroup to update that calendar.

The "public can view" part might be a concern, as I think that means public, and not just members of the primary group. And you'd probably want to disable the primary group's calendar; and the members of the primary group would need to be taught to look at the subgroup's calendar instead. So not necessarily the most convenient work-around.

But you may find other advantages to having a subgroup for the Executive Board, it would give them the resources of a group (including their own messages) that could be private from the primary group at large.

Shal


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Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:23, Shal Farley wrote:
Glenn,

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new
role called "Executive Board" or "EBoard", assign members to that role
and then privileges only to that role.
There's no feature to create new roles, but you might be able to get the effect you want by using a subgroup for the Executive Board.

The calendar of the Executive Board subgroup can be set to "Public can view, Subscribers can view and edit". That would allow only members of the Executive Board subgroup to update that calendar.

The "public can view" part might be a concern, as I think that means public, and not just members of the primary group. And you'd probably want to disable the primary group's calendar; and the members of the primary group would need to be taught to look at the subgroup's calendar instead. So not necessarily the most convenient work-around.

But you may find other advantages to having a subgroup for the Executive Board, it would give them the resources of a group (including their own messages) that could be private from the primary group at large.

Sha
Thanks, Shal, that's an useful insight.  I don't think we care if the calendar is public because the state bylaws say that all of our meetings are open to the public.

Best,

Glenn

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:00 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board" or "EBoard", assign members to that role and then privileges only to that role.

Is this possible?
No, this is not currently possible.

I feel that the title of "Moderator" is somewhat unfortunate. In groups.io, individual Moderator roles and notifications are highly configurable and -- if you want -- can be totally unrelated to the screening of incoming messages (see list below). I suggest you investigate that option further.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
 
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Moderator Permissions
Approve Pending Messages
Edit Archives
Invite Members
Create/Delete Hashtags
Manage Subgroups
Add or Modify Integrations
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View Member List
Approve Pending Members (also allows access to the member list)
Ban Members (also allows access to the member list)
Set Member Subscription Options (also allows access to the member list)
Set Moderator Privileges (also allows access to the member list and allows setting member subscription options)
Remove Members (also allows access to the member list)
Notifications
Email when there are messages needing approval.
Email when there are members needing approval.
Email when a member joins/leaves this group.
Email when group storage limits are reached.
Email when someone creates or deletes a subgroup.
Email when someone reports a message.

 

Glenn,

I wrote:
There's no feature to create new roles, but you might be able to get
the effect you want by using a subgroup for the Executive Board.
Oops.

I missed a gaping flaw with that idea: members of the primary group could not receive notices or reminders from the subgroup's calendar.

Shal


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Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:31, Shal Farley wrote:
Glenn,

I wrote:
There's no feature to create new roles, but you might be able to get
the effect you want by using a subgroup for the Executive Board.
Oops.

I missed a gaping flaw with that idea: members of the primary group could not receive notices or reminders from the subgroup's calendar.

Shal
Oh.  Yeah, that would be a deal-breaker for us.

Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with something brilliant.

Best,

Glenn

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:35 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with something brilliant.
I cannot claim that this suggestion is anything "brilliant", but would making your Calendar editable by subscribers work? Or would it be too vulnerable to mistakes and inadvertent deletions?

Chris

Bob Bellizzi
 

We simply set up a basic free group just for this purpose.  That way there is no confusion when posting.
Also, if you need more subdivision you can  do it in the separate Executive group and maintain a clean  structure.

The separation causes the Executive members to think about where they are  posting.
Otherwise, one could be embarrassed if an executive conversation accidentally appeared on the member group
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation

 

Glenn,

Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with
something brilliant.
There's this suggestion, which includes the idea of a merged calendar which aggregates events from the primary and subgroups. That might solve a couple of the problems with using a subgroup calendar.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/20346954

There are also some years-old wishes in the beta group for the ability to moderate member contributions/edits to the web features (calendar, database, files, photos, wiki). And for more granular access control generally.

Perhaps what you're looking for fits in with some of those ideas.

Shal


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Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:46, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
We simply set up a basic free group just for this purpose.  That way there is no confusion when posting.
Also, if you need more subdivision you can  do it in the separate Executive group and maintain a clean  structure.

The separation causes the Executive members to think about where they are  posting.
Otherwise, one could be embarrassed if an executive conversation accidentally appeared on the member group
I get what you are saying, Bob, but our use case is somewhat different in that the Eboard wants to edit a calendar that is visible by the members.

Best,

Glenn

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:48, Shal Farley wrote:
Glenn,

Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with
something brilliant.
There's this suggestion, which includes the idea of a merged calendar which aggregates events from the primary and subgroups. That might solve a couple of the problems with using a subgroup calendar.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/20346954

There are also some years-old wishes in the beta group for the ability to moderate member contributions/edits to the web features (calendar, database, files, photos, wiki). And for more granular access control generally.

Perhaps what you're looking for fits in with some of those ideas.

Shal
Yep.  Charles Reid and I are on the same page in that request as noted downthread, the generalization to other features besides calendar.  IMHO, more granular is always better because you can implement coarse grained control with granular but not the other way around.

/me sits and waits patiently for the new features.

Best,

Glenn

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:42, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:35 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with something brilliant.
I cannot claim that this suggestion is anything "brilliant", but would making your Calendar editable by subscribers work? Or would it be too vulnerable to mistakes and inadvertent deletions?

Chris
_._,_._,

This inquiry was actually in response to my making the calendar subscriber editable and our Vice-Chair making that exact same criticism.  I personally don't think that's a problem, but was looking for something that would satisfy their trepidations.

Best,

Glenn


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Michael Pavan
 

The definition of “Moderate” includes "limited in scope or effect”.

“Moderator" is not inappropriate, as speech (actually message posting) is not the only function that can be moderated. Moderators (in group email Lists) can also control member approvals, file and photo uploading, poll creation, Calendar / Reminder functions, etc.

If the title “Moderator” feels uncomfortable, include your group’s definition of what a Moderator is and can do. This definition could be on your Group Description, New Member Notice, and/or Message Footer, etc.

One can argue that “Controller” might be more accurate title, but the established tradition is “Moderator” and I do not favor creating more ambiguity of terms by changing it.

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate?
Moderators is inappropriate because, wait for it, they don't moderate and the even the implication that the speech of our members is moderated is against the culture of the group.

Glenn Glazer
 

The general term I would prefer is "Admin" since they administrate various features.

Best,

Glenn

On 7/1/2018 14:46, Michael Pavan wrote:
The definition of “Moderate” includes "limited in scope or effect”.

“Moderator" is not inappropriate, as speech (actually message posting) is not the only function that can be moderated. Moderators (in group email Lists) can also control member approvals, file and photo uploading, poll creation, Calendar / Reminder functions, etc.

If the title “Moderator” feels uncomfortable, include your group’s definition of what a Moderator is and can do. This definition could be on your Group Description, New Member Notice, and/or Message Footer, etc.

One can argue that “Controller” might be more accurate title, but the established tradition is “Moderator” and I do not favor creating more ambiguity of terms by changing it.

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate?

Bob Bellizzi
 

Glenn
Our  Board of Directors are in both groups.
The corporate secretary sets up calendars in both groups where necessary.  That also helps keep down any RSVP confusion, etc.
If a calendar event is Board or committee specific it isn't expressed in the member group.

But different strokes, etc
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Glenn Glazer at 7/1/2018 10:23 PM UTC:

The general term I would prefer is "Admin" since they administrate various features.

Best,

Glenn

Then that's what you should call them. It's not like the average group member is familiar with the terms Owner and Moderator and even if they are you can still call the people you select for special duties Admins.

Jim H