Date   

Re: Multiple group migration requests unanswered #migration

Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 02:03 PM, Anthony Mancuso wrote:
My bigger concern is the complete lack of email response from support.
Support is prioritised for those with premium groups so if you are not a premium customer you will automatically be further down the priority list. Also, given the current Covid crisis where normal working practices have been disrupted, it's not unreasonable to expect a slower response.

Andy


Re: Group emails taking hours or days to arrive #email #delayed

KATHLEEN DESMAISONS
 

Shal,

This is a very constructive conversation. I will keep going.
In bringing the problem here it might have worked better if someone
had said is there any time or any reason that you or one of your
vendors sending out emails in your name would be flooding the system?
I don't understand your statement. What vendors are you talking about?
+++I send out my newsletter through aweber.com and have done that for 830+ weeks.
Just to be clear, GMF is a user-to-user help group. No one here is a representative, affiliate, or vendor to Groups.io
+++Yes, and thank god for it! Our ability to talk with one another is why I am here.
We have put some safeguards into place to throttle transmission to
prevent shut down by a few email servers.
The "we" in that context must be referring to Groups.io.
+++Correct.
Groups.io monitors its success in delivering messages to the various email providers used by group members. When they become aware of trouble spots they work to resolve the problem. But some email providers won't "play ball" or provide any guidance. In such cases Groups.io is left to guess how best to manage delivery to that service with a goal of minimizing the occurrence of rejected ("bounced") messages.
+++Yes, exactly. I would consider it a proactive work around.
I would have realized that indeed, yes, I send out a newsletter once a
week that goes to a lot of people.
That might or might not be a factor. Generally speaking the throttling imposed by various email providers is based on the total traffic coming from Groups.io to that provider's users. Your newsletter may or may not be a significant fraction of that total with any given provider.
+++Correct.
And I would have realized that this was not a "glitch" or a problem
with io or Earthlink (or me) but simply a logistical issue.
I suppose that's a question of point of view. I consider it a problem (not a glitch, rather a deliberately imposed but misguided limitation) when an email provider refuses to accept delivery of messages for which its customers have subscribed.
+++And the nice thing as we come to understand the dynamics of whatever it is, we can solve it. The interesting thing is that I have heard nothing from any of my customers about any delay problems. I suspect it is because so few of them are on Earthlink <smile> which remains an old, and somewhat clunky relic of the past.
Limiting spam delivery is one thing, but it doesn't take much inspection by a provider such as Earthlink to notice that a certain source has the characteristics of an email list service, and is popular with the provider's own customers. If a substantial fraction of messages from groups.io are being marked as "spam" by Earthlink's customers then they have some grounds for their action, otherwise they are just giving their customers poor service.

+++Yes
That, by the way, is the basis for the FBL ("feedback loop") mechanism used by some email service providers - a means to tell Groups.io (and other list services) which members do not value the list's messages. But that's a whole other discussion, only tangentially related to message delays.

And I could take it up with the vendor who is sending out my
newsletter under my name and my email.
Are you referring to a third-party service such as MailChimp, or are you referring to Groups.io in the abstract as your "vendor"?
+++No, with aweber. But actually since no one but me seems to have a problem, and the change in my relationship to io on my Earthlink settings seems to have fixed it, I think we are set and I would be well advised to keep my mouth shut LOL.
If the former, funneling the output of that delivery vendor through groups.io groups is probably not a winning strategy. It would seem to make more sense for that vendor to deliver directly to your list of member addresses.

The good news is that we are talking about it. And I can go and tidy
things up.
I'm glad you think so, although I've no idea how you think you can tidy any of this up. If your newsletter is being delivered through multiple Groups.io group I suppose you could stagger delivery to those groups.
+++Things are working. I love io. I am happy to be alive and i appreciate the conversation!

Kathleen

Shal


Re: Multiple group migration requests unanswered #migration

KMB Admin
 

Hi Donald,

That thought crossed my mind as well, but there is nothing that indicates a Premium plan should be necessary for this.  You need to be Premium to directly add members yourself, but it says nothing about someone in the Support department transferring them for you.

My bigger concern is the complete lack of email response from support.


Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Duane
 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 06:03 AM, Tim Ballering wrote:
I thought the same as you, that the problem was on GoDaddy's side.  

We have a dedicated GoDaddy account manager, so I reached out to him. He states, and upon further reflection, I believe, the bounce is occurring on Groups.io end, not Godaddy's.
Once again, either misinformation or point of view.  The specific message "Reason: mailstore1.secureserver.net: 550 5.1.0 <66.175.222.12> This IP has sent too many messages this hour. IB504 <http://x.co/rlbounce>" is what was received by GIO's outbound email server (66.175.222.12) when it attempted to send emails to GoDaddy.  It was GoDaddy that bounced the emails.  You could contact your account manager and have him read this topic and/or reach out to GIO to assist in reaching a resolution.

To the best of my knowledge, GIO doesn't rate limit any email service, though there is a limit for posting per person.

Duane
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Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Tim Ballering
 

My own email, which is on GoDaddy,  too often bounces when sent to Groups.io with a 550 error "This IP has sent too many messages this hour. IB504"

I thought the same as you, that the problem was on GoDaddy's side.  

We have a dedicated GoDaddy account manager, so I reached out to him. He states, and upon further reflection, I believe, the bounce is occurring on Groups.io end, not Godaddy's.  

What appears to be happening is Godaddy runs a large number of emails off the same server IP.  The recipient server sees a flood of messages from a single IP and blocks that IP as potential spam or DDoS email server attack. Some services look at more of the email header than just the IP, so you don't experience the problem with those services.

My solution was to change my outbound email smtp server to our SMTP.com account, which has a high deliverability rate.   


Re: Group emails taking hours or days to arrive #email #delayed

 

Kathleen,

In bringing the problem here it might have worked better if someone
had said is there any time or any reason that you or one of your
vendors sending out emails in your name would be flooding the system?
I don't understand your statement. What vendors are you talking about?

Just to be clear, GMF is a user-to-user help group. No one here is a representative, affiliate, or vendor to Groups.io.

We have put some safeguards into place to throttle transmission to
prevent shut down by a few email servers.
The "we" in that context must be referring to Groups.io.

Groups.io monitors its success in delivering messages to the various email providers used by group members. When they become aware of trouble spots they work to resolve the problem. But some email providers won't "play ball" or provide any guidance. In such cases Groups.io is left to guess how best to manage delivery to that service with a goal of minimizing the occurrence of rejected ("bounced") messages.

I would have realized that indeed, yes, I send out a newsletter once a
week that goes to a lot of people.
That might or might not be a factor. Generally speaking the throttling imposed by various email providers is based on the total traffic coming from Groups.io to that provider's users. Your newsletter may or may not be a significant fraction of that total with any given provider.

And I would have realized that this was not a "glitch" or a problem
with io or Earthlink (or me) but simply a logistical issue.
I suppose that's a question of point of view. I consider it a problem (not a glitch, rather a deliberately imposed but misguided limitation) when an email provider refuses to accept delivery of messages for which its customers have subscribed.

Limiting spam delivery is one thing, but it doesn't take much inspection by a provider such as Earthlink to notice that a certain source has the characteristics of an email list service, and is popular with the provider's own customers. If a substantial fraction of messages from groups.io are being marked as "spam" by Earthlink's customers then they have some grounds for their action, otherwise they are just giving their customers poor service.

That, by the way, is the basis for the FBL ("feedback loop") mechanism used by some email service providers - a means to tell Groups.io (and other list services) which members do not value the list's messages. But that's a whole other discussion, only tangentially related to message delays.

And I could take it up with the vendor who is sending out my
newsletter under my name and my email.
Are you referring to a third-party service such as MailChimp, or are you referring to Groups.io in the abstract as your "vendor"?

If the former, funneling the output of that delivery vendor through groups.io groups is probably not a winning strategy. It would seem to make more sense for that vendor to deliver directly to your list of member addresses.

The good news is that we are talking about it. And I can go and tidy
things up.
I'm glad you think so, although I've no idea how you think you can tidy any of this up. If your newsletter is being delivered through multiple Groups.io group I suppose you could stagger delivery to those groups.

Shal


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Re: Multiple group migration requests unanswered #migration

Donald Hellen
 

Anthony . . .

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:16:30 -0700, "Anthony Mancuso"
<mancusoap@...> wrote:

I created a new Group on April 21, and emailed support@groups.io to request that my members be transferred from my Google group to my new Group. I did not receive any response, and have reached out twice more since then with no reply. I followed the procedures listed here, but I am concerned that none of my requests to support have been answered and my members still have not been migrated.
I know with Yahoo Groups it was required that you pay for an annual
premium group plan. I thought this was the case with Google Groups
also but I don't actually see that requirement in the document you
linked to.

Someone here will know if a premium group plan is required for this.
If so, that would be why nothing has happened.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM
https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp


Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Marv Waschke
 

This verges on idle speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this issue were not a side-effect of the covid crisis that has moved so many people online. Throttling discourages spammers, but it is also a way of preventing DOS on marginally overloaded message processing servers. GoDaddy could be having scaling issues and responding by lowering their throttling thresholds until they can put more capacity in play. I've heard that a lot of dark fiber has been lit up in the past two months to carry the increased traffic, ISPs would be the next in line to deal with increased volume. I expect to see more problems like this until the scaling issues are worked out.
Best, Marv


Multiple group migration requests unanswered #migration

KMB Admin
 

Hello,

I created a new Group on April 21, and emailed support@groups.io to request that my members be transferred from my Google group to my new Group.  I did not receive any response, and have reached out twice more since then with no reply.  I followed the procedures listed here, but I am concerned that none of my requests to support have been answered and my members still have not been migrated. 

How should I proceed?


Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

 

Curt,


Reason: mailstore1.secureserver.net: 550 5.1.0 <66.175.222.12> This IP has sent too many messages this hour. IB504 <http://x.co/rlbounce>
...
1. This address is working fine for other sources of email.

Correct. The reason is specifically a complaint that Groups.io's outbound server (66.175.222.12) has sent too many messages.

2. My only active GIO subscriptions are for [GMF] and [beta] -- so I'm not getting that many messages from GIO at this address.

The throttling being done by GoDaddy is based on total message delivery from Groups.io, not just messages to your address.

3. This is the only post I have done on GIO for months -- so outgoing GIO posts from me are not the problem.

Correct. A problem with outgoing from you would not appear in the Email Delivery History. It would be sent back to your Inbox as a "mail daemon" notification.

5. We're not having a problem getting messages from Yahoo Groups or other sources.

GoDaddy likely raised their limit for Yahoo Groups long ago. Perhaps other specific senders as well.
Someone at GIO needs to contact GoDaddy and get GIO's IP address(s) permanently off their spammer list.

Someone (Mark) has tried, but hasn't been able to reach anyone there:

"Email to GoDaddy/Secureserver is still being throttled and I have not
  had any luck contacting them as of yet."
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/24798

If you know of a way to escalate the issue with GoDaddy please do.

Shal


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Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

Duane
 

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 09:13 AM, Diana Spiegel wrote:
I just received this message after sending an email to the group.
Never happened to me before. What's up?
Two possibilities I can think of.  A typo or the group has been deleted.

Duane
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Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

M K Ramadoss
 

I had the same experience.
Re posted and went thru ok

MKR


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:13 AM Diana Spiegel <dianaspiegel@...> wrote:
I am one of the owners of a group xxxxxx@groups.io (not the actual name). 
I just received this message after sending an email to the group.
Never happened to me before. What's up?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer-daemon@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
To: <dianaspiegel@...>


Error Icon

Address not found

Your message wasn't delivered to xxxxxx@groups.io because the address couldn't be found, or is unable to receive mail.
The response from the remote server was:

510 The group 'xxxxxx' does not exist.




Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

Diana Spiegel
 

I am one of the owners of a group xxxxxx@groups.io (not the actual name). 
I just received this message after sending an email to the group.
Never happened to me before. What's up?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer-daemon@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
To: <dianaspiegel@...>


Error Icon

Address not found

Your message wasn't delivered to xxxxxx@groups.io because the address couldn't be found, or is unable to receive mail.
The response from the remote server was:

510 The group 'xxxxxx' does not exist.




Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Duane
 

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 05:54 AM, Curt Gowan, HPAA Operations wrote:
Someone at GIO needs to contact GoDaddy and get GIO's IP address(s) permanently off their spammer list.
Also see https://groups.io/g/Group_Help/topic/72980023

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:54 AM, Curt Gowan, HPAA Operations wrote:
GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address. 
This has been a frequent topic of discussion recently and if you search for 'GoDaddy' on this group you will find the messages. As your message shows, GoDaddy is actually limiting the rate at which it will accepts emails from Groups.io.

In short, Mark is aware of the issue and despite frequent attempts, he has been unable to contact anybody at GoDaddy to resolve this.

Regards,
Andy


Re: GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:54 AM, Curt Gowan, HPAA Operations wrote:
GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address. 
I think the problem is wider than just "Groups.io". "My" group runs a Document Archive (completely separate from Groups.io) and webform - based email requests for documents are sent (or not sent, as the case may be) to a GoDaddy - hosted address. And the webform and the archive are hosted by... yup; you guessed correctly.

Chris


GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address.

Curt Gowan, HPAA Operations
 

GoDaddy's email forwarding system appears to be intermittently blocking all emails from GIO's IP address. 
Got the excellent "Your Groups.io Account Is Bouncing" email. Clicked to see the excellent "Recent Bounces" page.

Here's a typical entry on GIO's "Recent Bounces" page for this account:
When: Apr 27
Message: #31388 [GMF] Posting super slow; 6 emails rfor approvals, then nothing pending on site....on and on.
Reason: mailstore1.secureserver.net: 550 5.1.0 <66.175.222.12> This IP has sent too many messages this hour. IB504 <http://x.co/rlbounce>

All of the dozen entries for Apr 27 (and the entries for Apr 26) give the same reason.

Data to dimension the problem:

1. This address is working fine for other sources of email.

2. My only active GIO subscriptions are for [GMF] and [beta] -- so I'm not getting that many messages from GIO at this address.

3. This is the only post I have done on GIO for months -- so outgoing GIO posts from me are not the problem.

4. Got the same message from GIO on April 14. Was on a crash project. Sorry, only did the unbounce and didn't report it.

5. We're not having a problem getting messages from Yahoo Groups or other sources.

Many individuals, nonprofits, and small businesses have domains on GoDaddy and use their forwarding mechanism.
Someone at GIO needs to contact GoDaddy and get GIO's IP address(s) permanently off their spammer list.

Thanks,
--cg


Re: mail to spam

Duane
 

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 08:09 PM, Anita L wrote:
I was wondering why is this happening?
Yahoo probably changed something in their spam filtering.  Most services 'tweak' things now and then, not for the better in some cases.

Duane
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GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: Subscriber being removed for marking message as spam

 

Wayne,

One subscriber has been removed 4 times in the last 2 days for
'marking message as spam'
...
[redacted]comcast.net> reported message ...
And so it begins. This will be a new experience for Comcast users, owing to a recent change:

"I was finally able to establish contact with both Comcast and Cox and
got the throttling lifted. As part of that, Comcast asked that I
subscribe to their FBL (Feed Back Loop) service. An FBL is how we get
notified when someone marks an email of ours as spam."
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/24798

He says he has not marked any messages as spam.
Some providers, and now apparently Comcast is one, will report the user for marking a message as spam when in fact all that happened is that their system delivered a message to the user's Spam folder, and it lingered there until it was automatically deleted.

To avoid that the user must mark the message as "not spam" before it ages out. So the advice to Comcast users (and those of other affected services) is to periodically prune their Spam folder to make sure there are no Groups.io messages in there.

Shal


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Re: Subgroups

 

Norma,

Frances wrote:

You might consider renaming it something nonsensical before deleting
it so you can re-use the subgroup name later.
That's not necessary with subgroup names. In a group with subgroups that's only needed with the original group name, that's now to the right of the @ sign. Aka the "subdomain name".

Also:

I don’t know what happens if you are a free group who has been
grandfathered with the privilege of having subgroups. What happens if
you delete your only subgroup? Can you start one free in a basic
group?
If your group was created before Jan 15 and has the subgroup feature grandfathered in that's permanent: you can freely create and delete subgroups at any time.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/69609845#23525

Shal


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