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Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken Schweizer
 

Shal,

My Outlook 2010 is running in Unicode mode, not POP, so I have access to all folders. I had tried looking in the Email Delivery History, but thought maybe they were special messages and not posted there. It seems odd in that I seem to receive and +moderator messages except the some of the ones I initiate.

Thanks for your help, I guess I'll just have to live with it if no one else is experiencing this.

Ken

Old age is like a plane flying through a storm. Once you are onboard there's nothing you can do.
Golda Meir

-----Original Message-----
From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
[mailto:GroupManagersForum@groups.io] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:24 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken,

> I haven't used my Outlook WEB page, so maybe that is altering or
> deleting my Moderator's notifications. I'll check that and update you.

That's one possibility. And if your Outlook 2010 is set up as a POP3
client with Outlook.com that becomes a definite maybe; with POP3
protocol the only server-side folder you can access is the INBOX.

If Outlook 2010 is set up as an IMAP client (or whatever proprietary
protocol Microsoft might use) then you should have access to all of your
server-side folders, leaving no other likely place for the messages to hide.

Unfortunately, it looks as if +owner messages aren't bounce-tracked at
the delivery to our email services. Which means that if Outlook.com is
rejecting those +owner messages for some reason you won't see them in
your Email Delivery History - as you would for normal group messages.

That's probably an oversight which Groups.io could/should correct.

Also, Microsoft-hosted email domains (like outlook.com) seem to have
more reported problems than other email services when it comes to
rejecting messages that come from or through Groups.io.

Shal


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Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

 

Ken,

I haven't used my Outlook WEB page, so maybe that is altering or
deleting my Moderator's notifications. I'll check that and update you.
That's one possibility. And if your Outlook 2010 is set up as a POP3 client with Outlook.com that becomes a definite maybe; with POP3 protocol the only server-side folder you can access is the INBOX.

If Outlook 2010 is set up as an IMAP client (or whatever proprietary protocol Microsoft might use) then you should have access to all of your server-side folders, leaving no other likely place for the messages to hide.

Unfortunately, it looks as if +owner messages aren't bounce-tracked at the delivery to our email services. Which means that if Outlook.com is rejecting those +owner messages for some reason you won't see them in your Email Delivery History - as you would for normal group messages.

That's probably an oversight which Groups.io could/should correct.

Also, Microsoft-hosted email domains (like outlook.com) seem to have more reported problems than other email services when it comes to rejecting messages that come from or through Groups.io.

Shal


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Re: Pending Icon, But No Member is Pending

 

Patty,

I am showing that I have 1 Pending task for one of my lists, and it
appears to be a pending approval for a new member, ...
Are you looking at the drop-list, or the Groups.io home page? The latter will tell you if it is a subscriber or a message that needs approval.
https://groups.io/

but when I check my Pending Members page, no one is pending approval.
Is the Pending button on the left plain (no number - consistent with the content of the Pending Members page)? Or does that button also signal a pending action? If these two were inconsistent I'd screen shot that for support.

I cannot make the little icon go away. Any suggestions?
It could be as simple as needing a page refresh in your browser.

Shal


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Re: Yahoo group transfer but without the membership

 

Tom,

One more thing...

We have some members with ... new email addresses.
About them -- Groups.io won't know that those are the same person as held the old address in the Y!Group.

If the old address still works (they can still receive messages there) a simple approach is to tell those members to sit tight, and let the transfer happen with their old address. Then in Groups.io they can log in to the account using the old address, and change that account's address to the new one. That will preserve their ownership of any contributions to the Y!Group.

That's likely to be a lot easier than trying to change their Y!Group subscription to the new address prior to the transfer.

If the old address is non-functional or on bouncing status in the Y!Group then my prior message applies - there's no automatic way to connect their new address to their content.

Shal


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Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken Schweizer
 

Shal,

I use Outlook 2010 for my mail interface and Firefox 61.0 as my WEB interface.

I have Outlook set up to move all of my SPAM and junk e-mail to my JUNK folder and I check and clean that daily.

I haven't used my Outlook WEB page, so maybe that is altering or deleting my Moderator's notifications. I'll check that and update you.

Thanks,
Ken


"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins"
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373

-----Original Message-----
From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
[mailto:GroupManagersForum@groups.io] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 8:45 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken,

> Doesn't the group+moderator.groups.io have to go to groups.io to get
> the individual addresses for each moderator?

Yes, the +owner email is delivered to Groups.io, and it in turn forwards
it on the the group moderators and owners (subject to their settings).

> I have had issues receiving moderator's messages at times, but not
> always, using the WEB interface and am wondering if there is something
> I have set incorrectly.

What WEB interface?

The +owner emails are forwarded to your email inbox (your subscribed
address). Whether you read your email via a webmail interface, or a PC
client, or a mobile client should not have any effect on whether your
receive it.

Though perhaps it may be more difficult to find messages misdelivered to
your Spam or Trash folders in one interface versus another.

> I have ALL of the "NOTIFICATIONS" checked and "OWNER EMAIL"="ALL
> Emails" checked.

Good. That should do it.

> I am set up as one of the owners. Do I need to also set up an account
> as a moderator?

No. Not for this reason anyway.

I usually have a spare email address or two subscribed to my groups, at
least one as a co-owner if I don't have any other co-owners. But that's
just backup, not a question of message delivery.

Shal


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Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

 

Ken,

Doesn't the group+moderator.groups.io have to go to groups.io to get
the individual addresses for each moderator?
Yes, the +owner email is delivered to Groups.io, and it in turn forwards it on the the group moderators and owners (subject to their settings).

I have had issues receiving moderator's messages at times, but not
always, using the WEB interface and am wondering if there is something
I have set incorrectly.
What WEB interface?

The +owner emails are forwarded to your email inbox (your subscribed address). Whether you read your email via a webmail interface, or a PC client, or a mobile client should not have any effect on whether your receive it.

Though perhaps it may be more difficult to find messages misdelivered to your Spam or Trash folders in one interface versus another.

I have ALL of the "NOTIFICATIONS" checked and "OWNER EMAIL"="ALL
Emails" checked.
Good. That should do it.

I am set up as one of the owners. Do I need to also set up an account
as a moderator?
No. Not for this reason anyway.

I usually have a spare email address or two subscribed to my groups, at least one as a co-owner if I don't have any other co-owners. But that's just backup, not a question of message delivery.

Shal


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Pending Icon, But No Member is Pending

Patty Sliney
 

I have a question:  I am showing that I have 1 Pending task for one of my lists, and it appears to be a pending approval for a new member, but when I check my Pending Members page, no one is pending approval.  I cannot make the little icon go away.  Any suggestions?
--
Patty S.

Re: Yahoo group transfer but without the membership

 

Tom,

Is there a way to transfer a Yahoo group over but not include the
memberships.
Yes, in Step 1 you can uncheck the "Transfer Members" box.

However, it is undesirable to do so.

The consequence is that any content (Files, Photos, etc.) linked to an address not present in the Groups.io group at the time of transfer becomes orphaned, and is assigned to the address of the person that initiated the transfer. The default (having all the boxes checked) solves that problem by copying the Y!Group's Manage Members list first.

We have some members with messed up settings, or missing names, plus
some new email addresses.
The simple solution is to Direct Add just those members before initiating the transfer, and let the Transfer agent copy in the rest.

During the copy of the Manage Members list the agent will skip any addresses already present in the Groups.io Members list. So the work you've done correcting the messed up members (and setting up your own membership) won't be undone by the transfer.

Hence the skipped members will not retain their Join date, Email Delivery, or Posting Privileges from the Yahoo Group; the copied members will.

One other group of members left out of the copy will be the members on Bouncing status in the Y!Group - they are skipped by the transfer agent.

You /could/ try Direct Add for them as well prior to the transfer. The vast majority are likely to fail the Add because their "You've been added" notice bounced, but you may recover a few who were misidentified by Yahoo's bounce tracking. However, it isn't clear that this would be worth the effort - the few in such a state would likely have rejoined the Yahoo Group under a different address - if they were at all interested in the group.

Shal


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Re: Yahoo group transfer but without the membership

Bruce Bowman
 

Yes, but ownership of all the group content (files, photos, etc) will be reassigned to you (the owner). Generally it's a much better idea to transfer the group as is and perform any necessary maintenance afterward.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Vail <@tomvail>
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GMF] Yahoo group transfer but without the membership

Is there a way to transfer a Yahoo group over but not include the memberships.  We have some members with messed up settings, or missing names, plus some new email addresses.  Can we just move all the rest of the items (messages, file, photos, etc.) and then direct add the membership?

Thanks,
Tom






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Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken Schweizer
 

Thanks Shal,

Doesn't the group+moderator.groups.io have to go to groups.io to get the individual addresses for each moderator? I have had issues receiving moderator's messages at times, but not always, using the WEB interface and am wondering if there is something I have set incorrectly.

I have ALL of the "NOTIFICATIONS" checked and "OWNER EMAIL"="ALL Emails" checked.

I am set up as one of the owners. Do I need to also set up an account as a moderator?

Ken


“Some people occasionally stumble across the truth. But then they pick themselves right up and move on like nothing happened.”
Winston Churchill

-----Original Message-----
From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
[mailto:GroupManagersForum@groups.io] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:54 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] Rejecting a post with explanation

Ken,

> ... but shouldn't I receive a copy if I, a moderator, add the
> moderator's link to CC or BCC

Certainly a CC to the +owner address should be distributed to the mods
and owners. Subject to each mod/owner's subscription option on whether
to receive +owner messages.

I know Y!Groups discards BCC messages to the -owner address as an
anti-spam measure, but I don't recall if Groups.io does likewise; I
don't think so.

> or is that not implemented in the "command" action?

The action of sending a CC or BCC copy of the message happens at your
email service; so the fact that another copy of the message was sent to
a command address shouldn't affect the processing of the copy sent to
+owner.

Shal


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Yahoo group transfer but without the membership

Tom Vail
 

Is there a way to transfer a Yahoo group over but not include the memberships.  We have some members with messed up settings, or missing names, plus some new email addresses.  Can we just move all the rest of the items (messages, file, photos, etc.) and then direct add the membership?

Thanks,
Tom

Re: Create a new role

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Glenn Glazer at 7/1/2018 10:23 PM UTC:

The general term I would prefer is "Admin" since they administrate various features.

Best,

Glenn

Then that's what you should call them. It's not like the average group member is familiar with the terms Owner and Moderator and even if they are you can still call the people you select for special duties Admins.

Jim H

Re: Rejecting a post with explanation

 

Ken,

... but shouldn't I receive a copy if I, a moderator, add the
moderator's link to CC or BCC
Certainly a CC to the +owner address should be distributed to the mods and owners. Subject to each mod/owner's subscription option on whether to receive +owner messages.

I know Y!Groups discards BCC messages to the -owner address as an anti-spam measure, but I don't recall if Groups.io does likewise; I don't think so.

or is that not implemented in the "command" action?
The action of sending a CC or BCC copy of the message happens at your email service; so the fact that another copy of the message was sent to a command address shouldn't affect the processing of the copy sent to +owner.

Shal


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Re: Create a new role

Bob Bellizzi
 

Glenn
Our  Board of Directors are in both groups.
The corporate secretary sets up calendars in both groups where necessary.  That also helps keep down any RSVP confusion, etc.
If a calendar event is Board or committee specific it isn't expressed in the member group.

But different strokes, etc
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation

Re: Create a new role

Glenn Glazer
 

The general term I would prefer is "Admin" since they administrate various features.

Best,

Glenn

On 7/1/2018 14:46, Michael Pavan wrote:
The definition of “Moderate” includes "limited in scope or effect”.

“Moderator" is not inappropriate, as speech (actually message posting) is not the only function that can be moderated. Moderators (in group email Lists) can also control member approvals, file and photo uploading, poll creation, Calendar / Reminder functions, etc.

If the title “Moderator” feels uncomfortable, include your group’s definition of what a Moderator is and can do. This definition could be on your Group Description, New Member Notice, and/or Message Footer, etc.

One can argue that “Controller” might be more accurate title, but the established tradition is “Moderator” and I do not favor creating more ambiguity of terms by changing it.

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate?

Re: Create a new role

Michael Pavan
 

The definition of “Moderate” includes "limited in scope or effect”.

“Moderator" is not inappropriate, as speech (actually message posting) is not the only function that can be moderated. Moderators (in group email Lists) can also control member approvals, file and photo uploading, poll creation, Calendar / Reminder functions, etc.

If the title “Moderator” feels uncomfortable, include your group’s definition of what a Moderator is and can do. This definition could be on your Group Description, New Member Notice, and/or Message Footer, etc.

One can argue that “Controller” might be more accurate title, but the established tradition is “Moderator” and I do not favor creating more ambiguity of terms by changing it.

Since "moderators" isn't appropriate, I would like to create a new role called "Executive Board"...
Why is "moderators" inappropriate?
Moderators is inappropriate because, wait for it, they don't moderate and the even the implication that the speech of our members is moderated is against the culture of the group.

Re: Create a new role

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:42, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:35 pm, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with something brilliant.
I cannot claim that this suggestion is anything "brilliant", but would making your Calendar editable by subscribers work? Or would it be too vulnerable to mistakes and inadvertent deletions?

Chris
_._,_._,

This inquiry was actually in response to my making the calendar subscriber editable and our Vice-Chair making that exact same criticism.  I personally don't think that's a problem, but was looking for something that would satisfy their trepidations.

Best,

Glenn


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Re: Create a new role

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:48, Shal Farley wrote:
Glenn,

Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with
something brilliant.
There's this suggestion, which includes the idea of a merged calendar which aggregates events from the primary and subgroups. That might solve a couple of the problems with using a subgroup calendar.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/20346954

There are also some years-old wishes in the beta group for the ability to moderate member contributions/edits to the web features (calendar, database, files, photos, wiki). And for more granular access control generally.

Perhaps what you're looking for fits in with some of those ideas.

Shal
Yep.  Charles Reid and I are on the same page in that request as noted downthread, the generalization to other features besides calendar.  IMHO, more granular is always better because you can implement coarse grained control with granular but not the other way around.

/me sits and waits patiently for the new features.

Best,

Glenn

Re: Create a new role

Glenn Glazer
 

On 7/1/2018 12:46, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
We simply set up a basic free group just for this purpose.  That way there is no confusion when posting.
Also, if you need more subdivision you can  do it in the separate Executive group and maintain a clean  structure.

The separation causes the Executive members to think about where they are  posting.
Otherwise, one could be embarrassed if an executive conversation accidentally appeared on the member group
I get what you are saying, Bob, but our use case is somewhat different in that the Eboard wants to edit a calendar that is visible by the members.

Best,

Glenn

Re: Create a new role

 

Glenn,

Will think some more on this and report back if I come up with
something brilliant.
There's this suggestion, which includes the idea of a merged calendar which aggregates events from the primary and subgroups. That might solve a couple of the problems with using a subgroup calendar.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/20346954

There are also some years-old wishes in the beta group for the ability to moderate member contributions/edits to the web features (calendar, database, files, photos, wiki). And for more granular access control generally.

Perhaps what you're looking for fits in with some of those ideas.

Shal


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