Date   

Re: sudden yahoo bounce

Drew
 

If Yahoo hadn't already been falling apart I would have suspected that it is just Verizon's way of telling people to get lost. They did that with their DSL customers-- just let the infrastructure rot and keep jacking up the prices until people get tired of the constant problems and go elsewhere.

Drew

On 03/17/18 20:42, Paul Ohio USA via Groups.Io wrote:
jonathon,Given Yahoo's track record with technical expertise, exactly no one left.
Paul, Ohio, USA
On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:12:25 PM EDT, toki <toki.kantoor@gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/16/2018 02:02 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
It's happening to a lot of people with Yahoo email addresses.
I"m guessing that since Verizon purchased Yahoo, everybody with a shred
of technical expertise has found employment elsewhere.
jonathon


Re: Can someone explain to me... unsubscribed for marking a message as spam

Chris Jones
 

Many thanks for the "further and better particulars", including the betagroups.io links, which are very informative in showing that we are dealing with a well known problem to which there seems to be no immediately obvious solution.

I have also received a copy of the "dismemberment" email received by the person most recently affected. It reads as follows: (I have hidden his details.)


From: wireless-set-no19@groups.io <wireless-set-no19+owner@groups.io>
To: xxxxx <xxxxx@...>
Sent: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:30
Subject: You have been removed from wireless-set-no19@groups.io

Hello,
Because your email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-no19@groups.io as spam, you have been automatically removed from the group. You will receive no more emails from that group. If this was a mistake, you can resume your subscription within the next 3 days by clicking the following link:
Groups.io groups offer several options for controlling how much and what types of emails to receive. See this Help Center article for more information.
If this happens repeatedly please check with your email service to learn about how they decide to send feedback reports to list services (such as Groups.io groups).
Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Now IMHO the above is misleading on two grounds; firstly it appears that it was sent by the individual Group itself (i.e. the owner or Moderators) when in fact it was not. I feel that the originator should be "Groups.io Management Team" or somesuch; secondly it reads Because your email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-no19@groups.io as spam when in fact this was simply not the case; it was the ISP (specifically aol) that marked the message as spam, not the member. Under those circumstances anyone receiving such a message would be perfectly entitled to treat it with the greatest of suspicion. It would be much better (again IMHO) if the sentence read something like

Because your Service Provider's email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-no19@groups.io has been marked as spam you have been automatically removed from the group. Please note that this "marking as spam" may have been done by your Service Provider and not by you. We suggest that you check your spam box as soon as possible to see if your Service Provider has diverted a perfectly legitimate message into it.

The present position is doubly unfortunate because the member concerned is on the committee of another organisation that is considering relocating from Yahoo to Groups.io and this glitch may well cause a rethink.

Anyway I am going to refer the story so far to the Owner and other Moderator on the WS19 Group so that they see what is going on (plus cc to the member concerned) and develop a better understanding.

In the meantime how do I formally submit the suggested rewording above?

Regards,

Chris


Re: Can someone explain to me... unsubscribed for marking a message as spam

 

Chris,

That reads suspiciously like "why don't you (i.e. me!) write
something", which is fair enough; I don't much like "somebody /else/
should do something" attitudes myself!
Glad you understand. Since this is an all-volunteer effort the more people I can convince to volunteer some effort the better the result can be.

One snag I can see is that if this case is typical the member
concerned did not see the message that had been spuriously marked as
spam, and it is not impossible that the deletion notification was also
shunted into his spam box.
That's an unfortunate problem. I'm not sure what Groups.io can do about it (other than encourage people not to use such email services).

Groups.io /knows/ that it is not originating spam, so why is it
allowing others (e.g. aol) to determine that it is?
"Allowing"? The member's email service makes that determination on its own - Groups.io would love to be able to persuade them otherwise.

From my perspective (which I have to accept is less than complete) a
simple solution is to break the feedback loop and for Groups.io to
ignore others marking messages as spam.
There seems to be an implied stick to the FBL contract: unsubscribe this user or we (the email service) will dump more/all email messages from your list service into our users' Spam folders. Or outright reject them. Doubtless it isn't as black and white as that. I more suspect that compliance is simply fed in as another factor in the email system's Spam/Ham discriminator function.

Unfortunately Mark's perspective is less than complete as well. I'm not too surprised - I can understand why email services might be wary about revealing details of how they determine which messages are spam.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/10753
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/11900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback_loop_(email)

Shal


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Re: Can someone explain to me... unsubscribed for marking a message as spam

Chris Jones
 

Shal; thanks for the prompt response.

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 04:38 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I can't speak to what turns up in the Help section (well, I could poke at Mark but he's got a lot on his plate). In the shorter term, an article in GMF's wiki would be a great idea.

If someone would write it.
That reads suspiciously like "why don't you (i.e. me!) write something", which is fair enough; I don't much like "somebody else should do something" attitudes myself! I'll certainly give it a try, but at the moment I am awaiting the "affected member" in this case (who as it happens is an aol user) forwarding what he received, assuming of course that he hasn't already deleted it.

One snag I can see is that if this case is typical the member concerned did not see the message that had been spuriously marked as spam, and it is not impossible that the deletion notification was also shunted into his spam box. He only found them when I flagged the issue up and he actively searched there. If that happens then any member concerned won't necessarily know they have been deleted and won't find the link to reinstate themselves.

Groups.io knows that it is not originating spam, so why is it allowing others (e.g. aol) to determine that it is? From my perspective (which I have to accept is less than complete) a simple solution is to break the feedback loop and for Groups.io to ignore others marking messages as spam.

I'll have to wait and see if the "deleted member" forwards the relevant messages to me before doing anything else.

Chris.


Re: Number of Groups.io Members

 

P.S. A group started on March 15 has number 14400.


Re: Number of Groups.io Members

 

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 05:37 am, Duane wrote:

Latest: visible groups - 5207,
envelope-from of each received message and digest contains 4 numbers like

digestbounce+66+801+22614+48621 @ groups.io

for GMF digest #801.
The second number is number of the message or digest.
The first number is the group number, including unlisted groups.


Re: sudden yahoo bounce

Paul Ohio USA
 

It isn't just messages from Groups.io. I have a gmail account that forwards to my Yahoo email and some of those have bounced. It appears that Verizon/Yahoo is imploding. I can't imagine what has bounced.

Paul, Ohio, USA

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 10:04:11 AM EDT, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

It's happening to a lot of people with Yahoo email addresses. 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6120

Follow up messages sent outside of GIO may or may not get through, either.

Gotta love Yahoo!

Bruce


Re: sudden yahoo bounce

RickGlaz <rickglaz4742435@...>
 

Perhaps some of the Yahoo people were absorbed directly into Verizon?
I hate to say anything bad about Verizon, but they *increased* my 50Mbps (ISP)
speed to 100Mbps (at no extra charge) and instead it dropped to 14-17Mbps.
It took almost a month to get back to around 47Mbps.
It is "prime time" here and I just measured 37Mbps, then 45.

I will admit, I did hit 100M for about ONE minute ONE day, but never
got above 54M before or since.
This is on many different devices and many different OSs and versions.
I've re-booted the router, etc and all the normal stuff...
One more example, I have a state of the art 8-core Android phone on WiFi
and just got 40Mbps on the 2.4G band.

bummer

Rick


On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 06:16 pm, Paul Ohio USA wrote:
jonathon,
Given Yahoo's track record with technical expertise, exactly no one left. Emoji
 
Paul, Ohio, USA
 
On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:12:25 PM EDT, toki <toki.kantoor@...> wrote:
 
On 03/16/2018 02:02 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
> It's happening to a lot of people with Yahoo email addresses.

I"m guessing that since Verizon purchased Yahoo, everybody with a shred
of technical expertise has found employment elsewhere.

jonathon




Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

Albert Ruel
 

Thanks Olivia.  Your instructions did the trick. 

 

From: GroupManagersForum@groups.io [mailto:GroupManagersForum@groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 2:08 PM
To: GroupManagersForum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GMF] How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers #addmembers

 

They have to go to groups.io, log in, and find the group's home page. From there, they go to the Messages list.

 

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Albert Ruel <albert.gtt@...> wrote:

Can someone help me sort out how our members can read the list messages on the web and respond from there?  So far it seems one must use a mail client in order to be able to respond to the messages. 

 

 [lengthy quote trimmed by moderator]


Re: sudden yahoo bounce

Paul Ohio USA
 

jonathon,
Given Yahoo's track record with technical expertise, exactly no one left. Emoji

Paul, Ohio, USA

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:12:25 PM EDT, toki <toki.kantoor@...> wrote:

On 03/16/2018 02:02 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
> It's happening to a lot of people with Yahoo email addresses.

I"m guessing that since Verizon purchased Yahoo, everybody with a shred
of technical expertise has found employment elsewhere.

jonathon




Re: Can someone explain to me... unsubscribed for marking a message as spam

 

Chris,

It is thus a common and (I assume) annoying problem, so is there any
likelihood of anything about it turning up in the "Help" section?
I can't speak to what turns up in the Help section (well, I could poke at Mark but he's got a lot on his plate). In the shorter term, an article in GMF's wiki would be a great idea.

If someone would write it. Doesn't have to be neat, it could even start as little more than a list of links to relevant message posts.

Even the warning notice to Mods that someone has left is misleading,
reading "/because they marked a message as spam/" when in fact the
member concerned had done nothing at all; the message has been marked
as spam somewhere along the route and the person concerned had /no/
knowledge of it.
If you can come up with better wording, the beta group would be a good place to put it in front of Mark. He's far more apt to copy/paste something well written than he is to try and write something from scratch.

If the "auto - deletion" policy is to remain in place can there at
least be some help in the "help" section?
The same is true of the Help pages, and that is the origin of the Help Page Mock-up in GMF's Wiki. If you/we write it, Mark might take it up.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/13510

The policy most likely will stay in place, for a time. That's because certain email services (AOL, Yahoo, and MSN among them) have created the whole FBL (Feedback Loop) mechanism for this purpose. It is beyond me why any of those email services (I'm looking at you, AOL) think it is a good idea to report a user when it was their own filter that put the list's message(s) into the Spam folder.

There is a replacement RFC (proposed standard) for a "One-click" unsubscribe feature to implemented cooperatively by email services and list services. So things may change. But I've a fear that the same benighted email services that build over-active FBLs will do something equivalently stupid in their implementation of one-click.

And yes I apologise if this reads like a bit of a rant, but the above
has been a cause for concern right from the outset.
No apology needed. Mark isn't here to be offended, and the rest of us have much the same concern.

Shal


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Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

 

Frances,

Shal, can you add this to the Help or somehow save it? Make it a
sticky for awhile?
Thanks. I linked to it as a new item, "Reading messages on the web", in the Quick-Start Guide section of GMF's wiki.

There are likely other posts that deserve linkage from the wiki.

I've already taken the liberty of linking Steve's message to his Yahoo Group from the new page collecting those examples. That page and its companion for Welcome member notices I need to link from one of the Transfer pages. Generally the Transfer pages need some love and update to catch up with Mark's recent work and incorporating some of the advice that's been posted.
(hint, hint, to those with the gumption)

Shal


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Re: Can someone explain to me... unsubscribed for marking a message as spam

Chris Jones
 

I am a Moderator for the wireless-set-no19 Group, (as well as a member of other Groups) and we have been plagued by this problem since migrating from Yahoo just over 3 months ago. I have just signed up to this Forum after finding comments like There have been, like, hundreds of conversations about this here and There are several threads here recently about this very thing.

It is thus a common and (I assume) annoying problem, so is there any likelihood of anything about it turning up in the "Help" section? There is nothing to prewarn members or Moderators at all, and it was only following a surprise "dismemberment" from a long - standing and reliable member that we have been able to try to work out what has been going on. It has also revealed why some members thus affected have rejoined without any action on our part; Owners and Moderators have no clue about what processes are in place without delving into this Forum, and it is only by luck that a suitable thread was on the front page. How many threads are Mods expected to search in the hope of finding a relevant one? Even the warning notice to Mods that someone has left is misleading, reading "because they marked a message as spam" when in fact the member concerned had done nothing at all; the message has been marked as spam somewhere along the route and the person concerned had no knowledge of it. 

In today's instance the person concerned did not know that a message had been spam - boxed by his ISP until I contacted him, and had up to that point had avoided the "do you want to rejoin" link because of a deep distrust of uninvited links, which is entirely reasonable. 

If the "auto - deletion" policy is to remain in place can there at least be some help in the "help" section? If threads are common on this Forum then it ought to be obvious that it is a recurrent problem.  

And yes I apologise if this reads like a bit of a rant, but the above has been a cause for concern right from the outset.

Chris


Re: Anyone have samples of letters sent to your group before and after transferring to io

 

Arno,

I use LibreOffice if I must use HTML (my eMail client posts in plain
TXT only).
When I tried to attach it, it all looked weird, unreadable, see
attached. Had to open and save as DOC to attach.
You may have better luck if you have LibreOffice export it as PDF, then attach the PDF file. LibreOffice's document format, while open, is not widely supported. Even DOC is a proprietary format and not everyone has applications that can read it.

PDF (Portable Document Format) was originally proprietary to Adobe, but some years back they published it as a public standard. Since then it has been added to many applications; many modern browsers (Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, ...) can open PDF files directly in a browser window without a separate application.

Shal


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Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

Frances
 

Shal, can you add this to the Help or somehow save it? Make it a sticky for awhile?
Well done!

Frances


Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

 

Albert,

Can someone help me sort out how our members can read the list messages on the web and respond from there?  So far it seems one must use a mail client in order to be able to respond to the messages. 

What J said.

Also, each email from your group has some links. Here is an example of an individual email, with the links at the bottom (the links will be formatted differently if the message from your group is plain text, rather than formatted):


View/Reply Online brings you to that very message. Group Home brings you to the group's Home page. Your members can use either link to find your group's pages, and from there the Messages list.

Note: if the Privacy section of Settings page of your group has Visibility set to one of the private (not public) archive choices, then your members will have to log in to Groups.io in order to access the Messages. In the upper right of a Groups.io page they should see the Log In link:



As members of your group they already have an account, so they don't need to use the Sign Up form. They may not have a password for their account yet, and if that's the case the Log In form will give them a couple of alternatives:



Either highlighted link will send them an email message that will let them log in to the site. The don't have one yet? message will have a link that will bring them to their account page, where they can set/change their password. The Email me a link to log in message will have a link that brings them back to the page they started at.

Once logged in to the site they should be able to see its Messages page:



Members won't see the Admin button on the left, but they can use the buttons in the left column to view various pages within your group.

Shal


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Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
 

Alternatively they can click on "View/Reply onlist" from any email message.

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 2:07 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
They have to go to groups.io, log in, and find the group's home page. From there, they go to the Messages list.

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Albert Ruel <albert.gtt@...> wrote:
Can someone help me sort out how our members can read the list messages on the web and respond from there?  So far it seems one must use a mail client in order to be able to respond to the messages. 




Re: Anyone have samples of letters sent to your group before and after transferring to io

 

I have completed putting together a new website for the SPIN Private Group. Yahoo Groups is simply unreliable and not being supported.


I have initiated our request to the website developer, to start transferring information over to the new website from the Yahoo SPIN Private Group.  This includes member information, message posts, files, photos, links, etc.


You will know when the process has been completed for you, when you receive an email from the developer, similar to the following:


Hello,

 

The owner of the SPIN Private Group has moved the group to XXXXX, a new Groups service. You have been subscribed to the new group using your Yahoo Group subscription settings. The name of the new group is SPIN Private Group, and messages can be sent to it at XXXXXXX.

 

Groups at XXXXXXX are similar to Yahoo Groups, but we have several new features. We encourage you to explore the XXXXXX website. If you have never registered with XXXXXX before, you will be able to create a password when you first Log In.

 

If you do not wish to be a member of the SPIN Private Group, XXXXX and you will be unsubscribed immediately.

 

If you have any questions, please contact XXXXXXXX

.

Cheers,

The XXXXXXX Team


In addition to the above email, you will also receive a special welcome transfer message from our group, and it will be similar to the following:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You made it!


Welcome to the new home of the SPIN Private Group email list and group service. Please take a moment to review this message.


We have a home page on the web at XXXXXXX - from there you can access our photos, messages and other content, but you must log in to XXXXX to identify yourself as a member of the group. The easiest way to do this is to go to XXXXXXXX and use the "Send me a link to log in" feature - an email with a log-in link should arrive momentarily. Open the message and follow the link promptly, it will expire in a short while. Once you've arrived at the site your login is valid for 30 days, so long as you don't log out or clear your browser's cookies. After that, simply ask for another log-in email. You can also register a password, etc.


To get you started as to how to navigate the site, and how to customize your own settings, once you’re on the site, see the Wiki which is the bottom button on the left hand side of our site page. After you click the Wiki button, click on the choice titled: 😀 Tips for use of the site (navigation, customization useful!)


If you do not wish to belong to this group and email list you may unsubscribe by sending an email to XXXXXXX or by visiting your subscription page at our website.


Steve

butterandpeanuts@...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Important notes:


  1. Until everyone has been transferred to the new site and the information on the site has been transferred as well, the SPIN Private Group main site will remain open and available to you… we will post a notice on the new site when all message posting on the Yahoo Group site will be turned off.

  2. The new site can be accessed on the web, as well as on all mobile devices. XXXXXXXXXXX

  3. No new member join requests will be accepted until the transfer is complete.

  4. You need to wait till you receive the above developer notice, before trying to register at the site (there’s a reason this is in big bold type!)


That’s it!

 


Re: Anyone have samples of letters sent to your group before and after transferring to io

 

Linda,

Does anyone have samples of e-mails they sent to their groups
notifying them of their upcoming move ...
I've created a wiki page where we can collect them for reference:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Advance-Special-Notice-for-Yahoo-Group-transfer

along with instructions on how to start
I put most of the instructions in a custom Welcome Member Notice, one that I made active only during the transfer. About all I said in the Y!Group Special Notice was that they'd not need to do anything to keep receiving group emails (most of my Y!Group members were email-only, no web access).

Shal


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Re: How to respond to messages on the Groups.io website #addmembers

J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
 

They have to go to groups.io, log in, and find the group's home page. From there, they go to the Messages list.

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Albert Ruel <albert.gtt@...> wrote:
Can someone help me sort out how our members can read the list messages on the web and respond from there?  So far it seems one must use a mail client in order to be able to respond to the messages.