Date   

Re: Changed owner emails and subscriptions did not transfer over - Group has no owner as of now #owner #email

Pat Salinas
 

Hello Again,

This is my last plead (as the instructions say below) to ask for help for the BIG pickle I am in - as I still have no owner rights to my group:
Bruce - Yes, I read what you sent and tried every email.  No owner rights in any of the 4 emails I have setup. 

If you ARE the group owner, and the group doesn't have any co-owners set up, that's an even bigger pickle. Your only option in this case is to contact support@groups.io and plead for assistance. Good luck!

Last updated:  11APR2020

Is there a change I can delete this group and reuse?  If so, how long will this take? The group name is: CSGatSGG@groups.io

THANK YOU.

Pat




On Jan 16, 2021, at 2:51 PM, Pat Salinas <marinasralive@...> wrote:

Yes!

I have attached the original email…Let me know if you can see it.
<OwnerIssue.rtf>

On Jan 16, 2021, at 2:02 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

Bruce,


On 2021-01-16 11:29, Bruce Bowman via groups.io wrote:
Changing your email address should not have caused you to lose group ownership. Are you sure you didn't merge it with another email address instead?

Yeah, that would explain it; she had both accounts created already at GIO, and (unwittingly) did a merge into the new account resulting in losing the ownership info.  Going back doesn't matter anymore, that info is gone.  But, why did GIO allow the currently-only group owner to be removed (or demoted) from the group??  I thought that couldn't happen, at least when attempted manually by someone.  I can see someone losing ownership due to a bad merge if there are other owners in that group.

Pat, do you remember the exact wording of the note that popped up on screen the first time you changed the account to the new address?

Also, try this to see what happens so we can make certain; right now from what I understand, you are stuck at the reset-pwd-back step and are still logged-in with the old account which created the group; if I'm wrong and you reverted back reverse the values, we are just trying to see if we have only one GIO account or both (somehow).  Go to your account settings, Aliases, add the new account there and click on "Add Alias"; if you did a merge back then originally, you should not get an error and you should see the new address added as an alias, and if so, delete it.

But if you get an error that the account is already registered, that means both accounts are present at GIO, then what the heck??

Cheers,
Christos




Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Nivard Ovington
 

I would certainly *not* like to see email address masking

There are so many ways to get around a perceived lack of privacy that its totally unnecessary IMHO

Some you have already mentioned, ie find a more suitable forum for example, use a different email address etc etc

If you are expecting bank vault security I would suggest using email is not the correct way to find it

Any email group will inevitably have a subscriber who knowingly or unknowingly will share or forward an email posted to the group, there is no work around to that happening

My main interest is in genealogy, I have used rootsweb for over two decades, in that time I had many contacts, on average a minimum of one per month, often more, from people finding my posts in either the rootsweb archives or by google searches, when GDPR came in Ancestry removed or masked all email addresses from the archives, since then I have had precisely *zero* enquiries from previous posts, as the finder of those same posts does not have an email address to find me

Here in groups.io any email address is only visible to another subscriber to that group, it would take a particularly fastidious spammer to join a group and manually collect email addresses, there are far easier ways to obtain them and in much greater quantities

Anyone finding one of my posts in groups.io will be taken to the public archive they appear in, and can then join that group to make contact or message the group owner

It cannot be a privacy invasion if the person sending it understands what they are doing, anyone joining an email list or group or any other forum should understand their email address may be seen by others at some point or other

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 18/01/2021 20:01, Patti Woodbury wrote:
This has been a discussion point for some time. It seems "old timers" on GIO see this as a necessity while others consider it, as you do, a privacy violation.
There is also some difference in opinion about "privacy" vs "anonymity" where some feel "privacy" is a matter of masking addresses to avoid email address harvesting and allow discussion of "sensitive" information but not hidden from group owners/moderators while "anonymity" , where addresses and other traceable information is totally cloaked, is considered dark web stuff.


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:57 AM, Alois Treindl wrote:
A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload.
Alois -- As others have mentioned, this only happens if the "Notify Members" checkbox is checked in the upload dialog.

Are you sure it didn't just go to the Moderators?

This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.
This member needs to populate a Display Name. Or you can edit his member record and do that for him.

If present, the Display Name will appear in the notification. Otherwise, his email address is used, for the simple reason that's the only remaining member identifier available in the system.

he then deleted the file again, and another message went to the group revealing his email a second time.
Again, group Members would not receive any notification unless he chose to do so via the checkbox. Moderators might, if they have that notification set up in their own subscriptions.

this is a privacy violation.
Um. Maybe.
 
Regards,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

 

This has been a discussion point for some time. It seems "old timers" on GIO see this as a necessity while others consider it, as you do, a privacy violation. 
There is also some difference in opinion about "privacy" vs "anonymity" where some feel "privacy" is a matter of masking addresses to avoid email address harvesting and allow discussion of "sensitive" information but not hidden from group owners/moderators while "anonymity" , where addresses and other traceable information is totally cloaked, is considered dark web stuff.
The "work arounds" generally suggested are having a restricted group and moderating new members. As long as someone receives group messages via email, all posters' email addresses will be revealed. Suggesting folks join with "alternate" non-personal email addresses has also been proposed, as has the suggestion that "maybe your group doesn't belong here".   
About the only "true" workaround to achieve the same level of functionality that GIO provides but to do so "privately" is to have your own website which incorporates a forum or discussion app.   
I've been told by several IT nerd types that masking email address would not be particularly difficult; while this would not prevent users who prefer to chat back and forth via email by using the "reply to sender" option (leaving the choice to then reply and reveal an email address up to the recipient of a pm) the GIO owner chooses to not do so. 
I continue to use GIO and appreciate the functionality in the hope that enough users express interest in email address masking that it will happen.

Patti in AZ


Re: Digest for subgroups

Duane
 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:28 AM, Annie Green wrote:
Is this possible for this subgroup?
It's possible for any group or subgroup.  See https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/controlling-your-email-subscription-preferences

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: Are File Uploads Broken?

Duane
 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:28 AM, David Bryant wrote:
Is anybody else having this problem?
I just uploaded a 10MB file with no problems (other than my limited bandwidth - 1MB up.)

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Digest for subgroups

Annie Green
 

I signed up for a subgroup and was given the option to choose how I wished to receive the notifications and I chose the daily digest form.  Is this possible for this subgroup?  So far I seem to be receiving each and every post one at a time.


Are File Uploads Broken?

 

Just tried to upload a 1.1 MB file. No soap. Groups.io site says "transferring data". My system monitor says data transfer rates are less than 4 kbps in both directions. It will take an hour at the rate it's going. What's up with that? Is anybody else having this problem?

I have a fully symmetric 250 Mbps (31 MBps) fiber-optics link to the internet. Other sites working fne. Will try again later.

Thanks!
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main / https://www.davidcbryant.net


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Nivard Ovington
 

Merely an observation

No one else appears to have mentioned it

As to a human intervention, no thats not likely to happen given the vast number of groups there are, it could be more than a permanent occupation

If it can't be done automatically its not going to happen

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 18/01/2021 14:44, ro-esp wrote:
Nivard said:
> This group ownership subject seems to be a pre-occupation of ex Yahoo groups
What does calling it a pre-occupation accomplish?


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

ro-esp
 

Nivard said:
> This group ownership subject seems to be a pre-occupation of ex Yahoo groups
What does calling it a pre-occupation accomplish?

Yes, we've seen too many good and/or big groups go to waste. If the owner left the door open, spammers joined and flooded the group with crap. If the owner left the door closed, nobody could join and/or some members could not post.

What made things worse was that there was no set policy. All you could do to adopt an orphaned group was contact yahoo and pray they would allow you to rescue the group. If they said no, you were supposed to create a new group, which often meant that you lost members - and easy access to the archive.
Spammers creating new "groups" pretty much every day made it quite hard to find useful ones. I guess that's why Mark seems to approve new groups one by one.

I recall some people arguing against a succession-feature saying that some people would want their group to die with them. Giving owners the option to explicitly choose would solve that issue. We could have a discussion about what should happen to those groups: delete, lock, whatever.

As to owners who do choose to enable succession: If they disappear and have appointed one moderator, that moderator should become owner - maybe without the option to delete the group or change its name?


If there is no obvious successor around anymore, it would be nice if a human stepped in, checked whether someone wants the job and whether members have a problem with this candidate. [this probably won't happen anytime soon]


groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Samuel Murray
 

On 18/01/2021 11:47, Alois Treindl wrote:

A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.
Are you sure all members received it, and not just the moderators? If I upload a file and I *do not* select "Notify members", then the moderators still get a notification, and it isn't clear from that notification that the notification only went to the moderators.

Samuel


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Duane
 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 06:57 AM, Alois Treindl wrote:
A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.

he then deleted the file again, and another message went to the group revealing his email a second time.
Those emails are only sent to members if the person doing the upload/delete selects the Notify Members checkbox. See https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-files

As far as privacy, I'm not sure how you expect an email list to work without email addresses.  Any time a member posts a message, their email address is included in the message that goes out to members.  There has been some discussion in the past on the beta group about having anonymous groups, but it hasn't been done.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Ken Cameron
 

I've seen that more of the other services out there are using alternate
contact methods both for password recovery and two factor identification.
The systems needed for the either supports both. The simplest to support is
adding texting as an option. Next more involved is using normal phone and
voice/keypad response.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org


Email revealed due to file upload

 

A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.

he then deleted the file again, and another message went to the group revealing his email a second time.

this is a privacy violation.


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Marina
 

Shal Fairley wrote:
Alternate contact methods would naturally be ideal for use for many
other purposes, so I'm inclined to treat that as a separate suggestion
that could be implemented before or after this one.

I agree that alternate contact methods would be a good addition to GIO, in any case.

Regards,
Marina


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 10:06 PM, Dan Tucker - FireTuck wrote:
I cannot set the Privacy Permissions now to allow the Member Profiles to be viewed. Who would have known.
Member profiles are accessed via the Directory. The Directory can be toggled on and off as needed. https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/customizing-settings-for-premium-and-enterprise-features/member-directory The privacy setting for the group message archive has no bearing on this.

However, please note that each member must create a profile -- and share it -- before they will be able to see the profiles of others.

I cannot toggle "Members" in the 'Member List Visibility' pulldown.
The Member List is an index of subscriptions, not profiles.

You can make the Member List visible too, but only if your group uses the Restricted method of Spam Control. This is to keep spammers from joining your group just to harvest the email addresses that are found there. 
 
Hope this helps,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Thank you for this advice. 
I sincerely hope I never have to go that route. 


On Jan 17, 2021, at 19:33, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

Dan,

Regardless of the setting issue, answering this specifically, in general:

Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

Yes, you can always delete and recreate a group, but before doing so, always change the group name (address) first to something unique, like let's say Dan + 3 first digits of your SSN + a relative's name + last 4 digits of your phone, you get the idea, then delete the group; if you don't do this, the name won't be available for reuse for possibly quite some time and you'll be stuck until it becomes available.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Dan,

Regardless of the setting issue, answering this specifically, in general:

Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

Yes, you can always delete and recreate a group, but before doing so, always change the group name (address) first to something unique, like let's say Dan + 3 first digits of your SSN + a relative's name + last 4 digits of your phone, you get the idea, then delete the group; if you don't do this, the name won't be available for reuse for possibly quite some time and you'll be stuck until it becomes available.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

Duane
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 09:06 PM, Dan Tucker - FireTuck wrote:
How do I get around this? Is it possible to change this?
You didn't goof, you just haven't read enough.  Check in the Owners Manual, in the section for Privacy Settings, under the Member List Visibility setting.  Notice the ! Important: statement there.  (Section 3.4.2 of the PDF version.)

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


#settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Okay, so I apparently goofed while setting up the Group. It was so easy to do, and didn't really take much effort, I overlooked a small detail - actually, I never looked at it at all.

Step 8, in Creating a Group includes:
  1. In the Visibility dropdown list, select the option you want to use for your group and its messages (see the table below). This option controls whether your group and its message archive are visible to the general public or only to group members.

! Important: When you make a message archive private, you cannot change it later to be publicly viewable. The “private messages” setting is not reversible. Therefore, at this stage, you should be certain about what visibility you want your message archive to have.

That's pretty clear - if you read it and understand the impact of this. I cannot set the Privacy Permissions now to allow the Member Profiles to be viewed. Who would have known.

How do I get around this? Is it possible to change this? Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

I cannot toggle "Members" in the 'Member List Visibility' pulldown.

Thanks to anyone that can help.

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