Date   

Are File Uploads Broken?

 

Just tried to upload a 1.1 MB file. No soap. Groups.io site says "transferring data". My system monitor says data transfer rates are less than 4 kbps in both directions. It will take an hour at the rate it's going. What's up with that? Is anybody else having this problem?

I have a fully symmetric 250 Mbps (31 MBps) fiber-optics link to the internet. Other sites working fne. Will try again later.

Thanks!
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main / https://www.davidcbryant.net


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Nivard Ovington
 

Merely an observation

No one else appears to have mentioned it

As to a human intervention, no thats not likely to happen given the vast number of groups there are, it could be more than a permanent occupation

If it can't be done automatically its not going to happen

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 18/01/2021 14:44, ro-esp wrote:
Nivard said:
> This group ownership subject seems to be a pre-occupation of ex Yahoo groups
What does calling it a pre-occupation accomplish?


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

ro-esp
 

Nivard said:
> This group ownership subject seems to be a pre-occupation of ex Yahoo groups
What does calling it a pre-occupation accomplish?

Yes, we've seen too many good and/or big groups go to waste. If the owner left the door open, spammers joined and flooded the group with crap. If the owner left the door closed, nobody could join and/or some members could not post.

What made things worse was that there was no set policy. All you could do to adopt an orphaned group was contact yahoo and pray they would allow you to rescue the group. If they said no, you were supposed to create a new group, which often meant that you lost members - and easy access to the archive.
Spammers creating new "groups" pretty much every day made it quite hard to find useful ones. I guess that's why Mark seems to approve new groups one by one.

I recall some people arguing against a succession-feature saying that some people would want their group to die with them. Giving owners the option to explicitly choose would solve that issue. We could have a discussion about what should happen to those groups: delete, lock, whatever.

As to owners who do choose to enable succession: If they disappear and have appointed one moderator, that moderator should become owner - maybe without the option to delete the group or change its name?


If there is no obvious successor around anymore, it would be nice if a human stepped in, checked whether someone wants the job and whether members have a problem with this candidate. [this probably won't happen anytime soon]


groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Samuel Murray
 

On 18/01/2021 11:47, Alois Treindl wrote:

A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.
Are you sure all members received it, and not just the moderators? If I upload a file and I *do not* select "Notify members", then the moderators still get a notification, and it isn't clear from that notification that the notification only went to the moderators.

Samuel


Re: Email revealed due to file upload

Duane
 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 06:57 AM, Alois Treindl wrote:
A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.

he then deleted the file again, and another message went to the group revealing his email a second time.
Those emails are only sent to members if the person doing the upload/delete selects the Notify Members checkbox. See https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-files

As far as privacy, I'm not sure how you expect an email list to work without email addresses.  Any time a member posts a message, their email address is included in the message that goes out to members.  There has been some discussion in the past on the beta group about having anonymous groups, but it hasn't been done.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Ken Cameron
 

I've seen that more of the other services out there are using alternate
contact methods both for password recovery and two factor identification.
The systems needed for the either supports both. The simplest to support is
adding texting as an option. Next more involved is using normal phone and
voice/keypad response.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org


Email revealed due to file upload

 

A member uploaded a file to my group. All group members received a notification about the upload. This message revealed the full email address of the uploader.

he then deleted the file again, and another message went to the group revealing his email a second time.

this is a privacy violation.


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

Marina
 

Shal Fairley wrote:
Alternate contact methods would naturally be ideal for use for many
other purposes, so I'm inclined to treat that as a separate suggestion
that could be implemented before or after this one.

I agree that alternate contact methods would be a good addition to GIO, in any case.

Regards,
Marina


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 10:06 PM, Dan Tucker - FireTuck wrote:
I cannot set the Privacy Permissions now to allow the Member Profiles to be viewed. Who would have known.
Member profiles are accessed via the Directory. The Directory can be toggled on and off as needed. https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/customizing-settings-for-premium-and-enterprise-features/member-directory The privacy setting for the group message archive has no bearing on this.

However, please note that each member must create a profile -- and share it -- before they will be able to see the profiles of others.

I cannot toggle "Members" in the 'Member List Visibility' pulldown.
The Member List is an index of subscriptions, not profiles.

You can make the Member List visible too, but only if your group uses the Restricted method of Spam Control. This is to keep spammers from joining your group just to harvest the email addresses that are found there. 
 
Hope this helps,
Bruce

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Thank you for this advice. 
I sincerely hope I never have to go that route. 


On Jan 17, 2021, at 19:33, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

Dan,

Regardless of the setting issue, answering this specifically, in general:

Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

Yes, you can always delete and recreate a group, but before doing so, always change the group name (address) first to something unique, like let's say Dan + 3 first digits of your SSN + a relative's name + last 4 digits of your phone, you get the idea, then delete the group; if you don't do this, the name won't be available for reuse for possibly quite some time and you'll be stuck until it becomes available.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Dan,

Regardless of the setting issue, answering this specifically, in general:

Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

Yes, you can always delete and recreate a group, but before doing so, always change the group name (address) first to something unique, like let's say Dan + 3 first digits of your SSN + a relative's name + last 4 digits of your phone, you get the idea, then delete the group; if you don't do this, the name won't be available for reuse for possibly quite some time and you'll be stuck until it becomes available.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: #settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

Duane
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 09:06 PM, Dan Tucker - FireTuck wrote:
How do I get around this? Is it possible to change this?
You didn't goof, you just haven't read enough.  Check in the Owners Manual, in the section for Privacy Settings, under the Member List Visibility setting.  Notice the ! Important: statement there.  (Section 3.4.2 of the PDF version.)

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


#settings #question Is there ANY way to overcome a settings error? #settings #question

 

Okay, so I apparently goofed while setting up the Group. It was so easy to do, and didn't really take much effort, I overlooked a small detail - actually, I never looked at it at all.

Step 8, in Creating a Group includes:
  1. In the Visibility dropdown list, select the option you want to use for your group and its messages (see the table below). This option controls whether your group and its message archive are visible to the general public or only to group members.

! Important: When you make a message archive private, you cannot change it later to be publicly viewable. The “private messages” setting is not reversible. Therefore, at this stage, you should be certain about what visibility you want your message archive to have.

That's pretty clear - if you read it and understand the impact of this. I cannot set the Privacy Permissions now to allow the Member Profiles to be viewed. Who would have known.

How do I get around this? Is it possible to change this? Is it possible to Delete the Group (freeing the name up) and re-create the Group?

I cannot toggle "Members" in the 'Member List Visibility' pulldown.

Thanks to anyone that can help.


Re: No files, database, photos, etc

Donald Hellen
 

Alicia . . .

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 07:22:02 -0800, "Alicia Dean"
<Alicia@AliciaDean.com> wrote:


I created a new group and on the left pane, there are no options for files, database, calendar, etc. Can someone please help?

Did you set it up as a premium group and pay the fee to get those
features? They're no longer available in a basic group created after a
certain date.

Donald



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Re: No files, database, photos, etc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 10:31 AM, Alicia Dean wrote:
I created a new group and on the left pane, there are no options for files, database, calendar, etc. Can someone please help?
Alicia -- Free groups created after August 24, 2020 do not have those features. You have to upgrade to Premium.

See https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/files/Groups.io%20features%20%28includes%20legacy%20stuff%29.pdf for details.

Regards,
Bruce 

Check out the groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


No files, database, photos, etc

Alicia Dean
 

I created a new group and on the left pane, there are no options for files, database, calendar, etc. Can someone please help?

Thank you!


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

txercoupemuseum.org
 

Hi Shal,

From my (owner) perspective, the size of the list of potential successors has nothing to do with an owner’s selection of a successor. The determining factor will always be the limited number of people an owner would seriously consider to replace them “if and/or when”.

That’s always going to be a very small number and its source is utterly immaterial. Beyond that the important skills essential to a good moderator and a good owner are totally different. The essential clerical function of authorizing a “first” (moderated) post is pretty much automatic, absent some obvious attempt to spam the group.

On the other hand, arbitrating an emerging “flame war” is something both a good moderator AND a good owner should be able to do. Personally, I tend to choose more based on an individual’s technical knowledge (which gives them good “credibility” in a technically oriented group), as well as their temperament and talent in dealing with all types of people. Basically, I want large brains and small egos.

The “life experience” of a successful candidate is far more important than whether or not they have been a moderator. But then, our moderator requirements are far less sophisticated that those of GMF.

Best!

WRB

On Jan 17, 2021, at 1:53 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

WRB,

So why not simply allow appointment of (a), (b), then (c) successor
designations by an owner to assure one will accept?
That's what I envision. I'm merely talking about the selection of (a), (b), (c), ... How big a list of names/addresses must the owner scroll through - one the size of the Moderators list, or one the size of the Members list?

But my intuition is that promotion from the pool of moderators will >> seem more natural, and be easier to explain.
Explain to whom?
To group owners endeavoring to use this feature.

Shal


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Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

txercoupemuseum.org
 

Hi Shal,

Comments below.

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 17, 2021, at 1:45 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

Ken,

> In response to the list that has very little traffic, I would expect
> the first thing the successor code would do is try to contact the
> current owners.

My idea would, step (3), but if it was an owner that went absent then (2) would also be triggered at the same time, giving that owner no time to "cure" the absent status before a successor is appointed.

In the event an owner "woke up" post-succession there wouldn't ordinarily be a problem as my mechanism doesn't demote the inactive owner. It would only become a problem if the successor took some adverse action before the absent owner took control again.

So to head off that possible problem maybe step (3) should have its own time-out control so that notification could go out prior to triggering succession according to step (2).

<Maybe also a time-out control preventing “some adverse post-succession action demoting or removing an owner suspected of being inactive, incapacitated or dead for, say, six months?.>

> This is where having more than one way to contact any owner is
> critical.

That's one thing that's missing from my original description.

What stalled me on that was "how".

As things stand the only thing Groups.io has on file is the owner's email address. Given how often I've read stories of members that change providers or otherwise lose access to their email inbox without remembering to first update their (Groups.io or Yahoo) account, how many times I've read of members not noticing things diverted to their Spam folder, how many times we've seen email services go into a period of rejecting groups.io messages due to a blacklisting service... Contact via the primary email address seemed inadequate.

I like the idea of having Account options for alternate contact methods (alternate email and/or phone number for text messaging), but I hesitate to incorporate them in this idea, for it may weigh down this idea enough to sink it.

<There’s going to have to be a form to establish a “springing” owner successor.  An OPTION at that time for an owner to provide an alternate email and/or phone number capable of receiving text messaging would not seem an undue burden.>

Alternate contact methods would naturally be ideal for use for many other purposes, so I'm inclined to treat that as a separate suggestion that could be implemented before or after this one.

<If that “separate suggestion” were to propose an owner option to do this at any time, that’s a solution, too.>

Still pondering.

Shal


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Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

txercoupemuseum.org
 

Also, Yahoo, too, required other owners of equal power if an owner wished to assure their groups would continue; a step that more than a few times resulted in owners losing control of THEIR groups when someone so “promoted” then turn around and demoted or removed the prior owner. There was no meaningful recourse, same as is presently the case here in Groups.io without the option to designate a “springing” successor.

Best!

WRB

On Jan 17, 2021, at 12:50 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Nivard,

This group ownership subject seems to be a pre-occupation of ex Yahoo
groups
It is a sore point for many Yahoo Groups members and owners, as over the decades of its existence many groups were orphaned or abandoned; the longer a service like this exists, the more likely that something unfortunate will happen to a sole owner or their account.

Yahoo's account policies at times created them unfairly by cancelling the account of an owner based on a complaint in some other Yahoo service; Yahoo Answers for example was particularly aggressive about deleting user accounts for various infractions.

Shal


Re: Single Owner Group - Owner Deceased

 

WRB,

So why not simply allow appointment of (a), (b), then (c) successor
designations by an owner to assure one will accept?
That's what I envision. I'm merely talking about the selection of (a), (b), (c), ... How big a list of names/addresses must the owner scroll through - one the size of the Moderators list, or one the size of the Members list?

But my intuition is that promotion from the pool of moderators will seem more natural, and be easier to explain.
Explain to whom?
To group owners endeavoring to use this feature.

Shal


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