Date   

Re: SOMEBODY updated those darn old spam filters - again

 

Donald,

This is something that doesn't seem to be well implemented. Plenty of
people have no idea it exists, as well as many don't even know there's
a hidden spam folder (for some email services).
That few would know about the FBL mechanism isn't surprising, its operation is intended to be "behind the scenes". And I suspect in most cases it is - when the user in question really didn't care about messages from that list anymore.

But an email user who doesn't know about their Spam folder and how to use it is a bit more shocking, that's been a commonplace feature in email interfaces for so long now.

Users of mobile devices may face a more difficult learning curve. The Spam folder may or may not be easy to find in the tiny user interface. I find the Android app for Gmail only barely usable for managing misdirected messages and defer such action until I'm at the webmail interface.

I stumbled upon mine when I wasn't receiving emails I was expecting.
But the cable company doesn't tell you about it. At least not in a way
that I took notice of. The information is hidden somewhere on their
web site.
Users of client software on their computer likewise. The Spam folder may or may not be exposed in the user interface by default, or may not be accessible at all (users of POP clients) without going to the service's webmail interface. Also, I'm never sure with a given email service if using IMAP to move messages between Spam and Inbox actually signals the "spam" and "not spam" training of the service's filter.

I suppose too that the better services' spam filters may be victims of their own success - they strive to have no false positives (desired mail quarantined) and no false negatives (undesired mail in the Inbox) and to the extent they succeed then their users don't need to do anything. Action is only required when the automatic filter makes a mistake.

Shal


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Re: Moderators removed for spam

Duane
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 02:05 PM, SP4149 wrote:
The moderator was removed because a message was marked as spam.
Correct.  If their email provider uses FBL that is reported to GIO, they'll be removed.

Can owners also be removed automatically?
Yes.

I don't want owners/moderators to be automatically removed from a list,
We don't have any say in the matter.  The most we can do is use an email service that seldom, if ever, arbitrarily decides to mark messages from GIO as spam.  There's some good information at https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

Duane
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Moderators removed for spam

SP4149
 

On a fair sized list I co-own, over 1500 subscribers. The moderator was removed because a message was marked as spam.
Now this moderator has been the one raising the funds for the Premium status of the list.
Automatically removing a moderator is distrubing; the next question is Can owners also be removed automatically?
I remained a co-owner after transferring the list from YG, just to help the list owner with ADMIN hiccups like this.
I don't want owners/moderators to be automatically removed from a list, at least an intermediate, verification step is
needed before removal.
--
ken clark

www.shastasprings.com


Re: Subscriber marked as spam message

Mike Baker
 

I would suggest sending an email to them from your account letting them know that they've been un-enrolled from your group as either their email application or ISP thought it was spam.  Sending it from you account and not via Groups.io is an attempt to get the email delivered, if their provider considers Groups.io email as spam.

Generally, the message sent from Groups.io to notify them that they have been removed is in their spam folder where they may never see it.

Regards,
Mike


Re: SOMEBODY updated those darn old spam filters - again

Larry Finch
 



On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:53 AM Ullman Garrett <ullman.garrett@...> wrote:
On May 2nd Chris Jones asked If they were common providers involved with unsubscription due to marking mail as spam.
The providers were:
Comcast, AOL, Yahoo, Windstream
All except Comcast have been guilty in the past of pushing emails into the spam folders. I understand why Comcast is now added to the list.
I think I read somewhere that many services subscribe to spam filters produced by someone. Obviously something changed in the last few days affecting AOL and Yahoo. 
_._,_._,_

AOL, Yahoo and Verizon are the same company and all of them use AOL’s mail servers. It’s possible that Comcast has now subcontracted with Verizon for mail services. There are quite a few ISPs that don’t have their own mail servers, and instead subcontract their mail to one of the major providers. 

There are also a number of spam tracking services that the major ISPs subscribe to. To see a list of these (and to see if groups.io is on the list) go to https://tools.dnsstuff.com and scroll down to Spam Blacklist Lookup and enter one of groups.io’s IP addresses such as 173.255.221.194. You may be surprised at the number of spam indexing sites (91 today when I checked). Fortunately, groups.io is not listed on any of them that matter. So any spam blocking is done based on (imperfect) content analysis by the ISP’s mail server.

Your list may also be blocked if someone reports a post from the list as spam to their ISP. 

Larry


--
Larry Finch

N 40° 53' 50"
W 74° 02' 55"


Re: Forwarding group messages

Duane
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:53 AM, iowagold2020 wrote:
change the group settings to web only view and web only post.
There are no such settings, though some people have requested them.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki


Re: SOMEBODY updated those darn old spam filters - again

Ullman Garrett
 

On May 2nd Chris Jones asked If they were common providers involved with unsubscription due to marking mail as spam.
The providers were:
Comcast, AOL, Yahoo, Windstream
All except Comcast have been guilty in the past of pushing emails into the spam folders. I understand why Comcast is now added to the list.
I think I read somewhere that many services subscribe to spam filters produced by someone. Obviously something changed in the last few days affecting AOL and Yahoo. 


Re: Forwarding group messages

iowagold2020
 

change the group settings to web only view and web only post.
and not have your group as an email group.
they can still copy and paste the message to an email..
but that can be the copy write bad thing.

make sure you have it in words or writing in your groups rules page.
same on photo's as well you can water mark them to not reproduce.
--
Thanks Paul in Iowa
see my groups at https://hondagenerator.groups.io


locked Re: Upcoming Event: Group Managers Forum subscription reminder #admin - Fri, 05/01/2020 #admin #cal-reminder

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:31 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:

The 'prefix' "Upcoming Event: " is still ridiculous and essentially meaningless.
Agreed.  These reminders already have the #cal-reminder hashtag so this is really unnecessary.

Andy


locked Re: Upcoming Event: Group Managers Forum subscription reminder #admin - Fri, 05/01/2020 #admin #cal-reminder

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 07:17 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I wish I had faith that deleting the event would kill the ghost, but I don't.
In June last year I reported a problem to Mark (ticket 9168) where reminders were being issued for calendar events that did not show reminders were defined. Mark deleted the ghost reminders and said he was working to fix the bug. Perhaps it's work in progress :-)

Andy


Re: non appearing posts

Nivard Ovington
 

But if I Bcc a particular message to several groups I own, I receive a copy of each

Am I missing something ?


Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

But it won't help with the Gmail hiding problem (or feature) for members of more than one of those groups - the messages will still all have the same Message-ID. The only way to help that is for the poster to send them as separate messages. Which in most email interfaces isn't nearly as easy as just adding more addresses.
Shal


locked Re: Upcoming Event: Group Managers Forum subscription reminder #admin - Fri, 05/01/2020 #admin #cal-reminder

Michael Pavan
 

Shal,

On May 2, 2020, at 2:16 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:
You may have noticed that GMF has been sending one of each for the last several months.
Actually 2 are sent, 1 with the 'prefix' "Upcoming Event:, and 1 without.

That resulted from my attempt to switch from using a reminder to using the notice (the notice checkbox didn't exist when I first set up this event, nor did the subject prefix). Alas there was a bug at that time and deleting the Reminder did not stop it from being sent. That bug has since been fixed, but I wasn't able get Mark's attention long enough to evict the "ghost" reminder from wherever it is lodged.

I wish I had faith that deleting the event would kill the ghost, but I don't.
Is the 'ghost' one of them?
Which one?

The 'prefix' "Upcoming Event: " is still ridiculous and essentially meaningless.


Michael


Re: SOMEBODY updated those darn old spam filters - again

Donald Hellen
 

Shal . . .

On Sat, 2 May 2020 10:20:43 -0700, "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@gmail.com>
wrote:


This is the FBL (feedback loop) mechanism. It has evolved over the last
several years and is becoming more standardized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback_loop_(email)
Thanks for the explanation. All this time I thought it was part of
DMARC.

This is something that doesn't seem to be well implemented. Plenty of
people have no idea it exists, as well as many don't even know there's
a hidden spam folder (for some email services). I stumbled upon mine
when I wasn't receiving emails I was expecting. But the cable company
doesn't tell you about it. At least not in a way that I took notice
of. The information is hidden somewhere on their web site.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM
https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp


Re: Groups.io site updates #changelog

Duane
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
If a true hard limit has been in place all this time, I'm disconcerted that we're only now hearing about it.
I don't believe there has been, unless it was 'recently'.  I uploaded some files on a test group to see what would happen when the limit was reached.  I used one file that was 265MB,  another that was 311MB, and another that was 438MB to get the usage up quickly, then filled it with smaller files.  This was on 2018/10/20.

Duane
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Re: non appearing posts

 

Nivad,

I asked the poster if they used To or Bcc, and they confirmed it was
the To field

I suggested using Bcc in future
That will likely make the group owners happier, as then a Reply All from a member's email interface won't spray the reply across all the groups as well.

But it won't help with the Gmail hiding problem (or feature) for members of more than one of those groups - the messages will still all have the same Message-ID. The only way to help that is for the poster to send them as separate messages. Which in most email interfaces isn't nearly as easy as just adding more addresses.

Shal


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Re: non appearing posts

Nivard Ovington
 

To confirm the suggestion of posting to multiple lists, I received a reply to the post on another group I subscribe to, it had 14 group addresses in ;-)

I asked the poster if they used To or Bcc, and they confirmed it was the To field

I suggested using Bcc in future

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)


Re: Groups.io site updates #changelog

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 03:28 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
CHANGE: Documented photo/file upload size limits and increased them
for premium/enterprise groups.
Note that this refers to the sizes of individual photos/files being uploaded. It is not an increase in total storage space.
<snip>
Please call out any you find significant.
Shal -- I found this one to be a little startling, to tell you the truth. The most significant thing about it is that it's finally been put down "on paper." 

Multiple people have posted -- in both GMF and beta -- about difficulties attempting to upload large files, only to be told that a hard limit did not exist and their upload was probably "timing out." If a true hard limit has been in place all this time, I'm disconcerted that we're only now hearing about it.

Bruce

Check out the new groups.io Help Center and groups.io Owners Manual


Groups.io site updates #changelog

 

Hi all,

This week's change log:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/24821

Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.


CHANGE: Documented photo/file upload size limits and increased them
for premium/enterprise groups.
Note that this refers to the sizes of individual photos/files being uploaded. It is not an increase in total storage space.


04-30 CHANGE: Rolled back the List-Id change from 4/25/20.
04-25 CHANGE: The List-Id email header now includes the group id, to
better help us parse FBL reports.
This will only be of interest to those who filter their incoming group messages based on the List-Id header field. For those that do, a bit of whiplash as the change was made and rolled back again.


NEW: We now parse more information about which message was flagged as
spam from an FBL report, and send that out to the user and group
owners.
And indeed, a recent notice to GMF cites the Subject of the marked message:

"This is to notify you that [redacted] has been unsubscribed from your
group GroupManagersForum@groups.io because message RSVP Boilerplate
#rsvp #calendar #membernotices was marked as spam."

Alas, I don't think the message number is available (else Mark would likely have included it) so there's still some ambiguity over which specific message it may have been in that topic. But I'm not sure if that would be relevant very often.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

NEW: Updated Help Center manuals with Nina's updates, including
reformatted PDFs.
SYSADMIN: Continued debugging issues with the new database server.
SYSADMIN: Upgraded the web servers with more memory to deal with
increased file/photo upload sizes.
BUGFIX: Sorting by file type in the Files section would sometimes
return the same results over multiple pages because our sort
criteria wasn't stable.
INTERNAL: We now clean up unused RSS feeds in the database.
INTERNAL: On an edited message, check if the digest message exists
already before adding it, to prevent postgres log messages.
INTERNAL: Changed nginx log format back to combined to goaccess can
parse user agents.
INTERNAL: Work to make it easier to add additional FBL providers.
API: /getevent wasn't obeying the group calendar permissions setting.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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Re: RSVP Boilerplate #rsvp #calendar #membernotices

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 10:50 AM, Charlie Behnken wrote:
does anyone know of a way to add boilerplate language that would be included in every Calendar notice that has an RSVP?

For example - "By accepting this invitation you acknowledge that you have read the terms and conditions (a link) and agree to the organizations standard liability waiver (link)".  

Charlie -- If you want language of this kind to appear in each #cal-invite you have two options:

  • place it at the bottom of the event Description, or
  • word it as a question that each person has to respond to in order to complete the RSVP ("Additional Information Requested from Attendees").

In either case, you have to add this text manually each time...there is no "boilerplate" feature. And of course, if your group is on the Basic plan, the RSVP feature is unavailable.

See https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-calendars/using-the-rsvp-feature-in-premium-and for details.

Regards,
Bruce 


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Re: non appearing posts

Nivard Ovington
 

Yes not to receive a copy of my own posts drives me nuts too

A few years ago I had a tweak for gmail that circumvented that but after an update I gave up and simply bcc'd a copy of every post to myself, thankfully Thunderbird does that automatically

I have the "own copies" ticked

If I bcc various groups at the same time I get a copy of each one

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Groups.io has a special feature for Gmail users: an option (default on) to replace the Message-ID when sending your own message back to you. This is the "I always want copies of my own emails" checkbox in the Preferences page of your Account.
This feature is the only reason I'm willing to use a Gmail address with Groups.io. I've long refused to do so with Yahoo Groups because Y!G lacks such a feature and it drives me nuts not to see my own message return.
Shal

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