Date   

"Forgotten Password"

W David Samuelsen
 

I got an email from one of my subscribers.

he mentioned a problem, trying to sign in. He is already subscriber but for some reasons he logged out.

but his subscription is still there.

I looked around to find where the link to "forgotten password", nowhere to be found.

Is there such a link?

David Samuelsen


Possible Disruption Cause by Automatic Spam Removal

John Pearce
 

It Struck me that there could be serious disruptions caused by having the spam reporters removed instantly.  Since a spam report can happen without the members action that moderators and owners should not be automatically removed from a group, rather they receive some sort of notice regarding the issue.  This could be already the case I suppose.  And maybe when a Mod or Owner responds to the emails sent to rejoin they are placed back with all the settings, such as Mod or owner, in place.  Or maybe just as a new "role" member with default settings in place.

This prompted a thought that all these fake requests to join groups in groups.io might have this very thing in mind.  Could it be possible that since some of an email header can be changed that one motive a bad actor responsible for all these join requests could kick off some automated process to go through email addresses that have been harvested and generate mass spam reports causing much or all of a membership, including owners and moderators, be instantly removed.  This would also beg for a process where owners can periodically back up and when necessary restore a groups membership.

John P


Re: Allow members to HIDE, not delete their messages #settings

Duane
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 01:19 PM, Jim Avera wrote:
Members should be able to HIDE, not permanently delete their messages.
You'd have to take that up with GIO management.  As has been said many times, this is a user-to-user group.  Suggestions should be posted on the beta group.  Being able to delete your own messages is a well founded tradition, if not requirement, of groups.

Duane
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Re: Auto-trim [External] to keep threads together? #messages

Mark Berry
 

Thanks Duane. Good suggestions. Posted as a #suggestion in beta:

https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/auto_trim_external_to_keep/71250934

Mark Berry


Allow members to HIDE, not delete their messages #settings

Jim Avera
 

On 2/13/20 5:59 AM, Rubens wrote:
     In my opinion, it would be absurd
     for a user not to be able to delete
     their own messages.
That is a valid point of view, but IMO not right in all circumstances. 
 
Members should be able to HIDE, not permanently delete their messages.  All posts should be somehow retrievable, at least via legal processes (perhaps only as a total archive dump).
 
For example, if a poster publicly slanders someone and causes them harm, it should not be possible remove the evidence.    Cyber-bullying is a major problem and one deterrent is the risk of legal action when the harm is extreme enough to warrant it.   groups.io should not facilitate tampering with evidence.
 
Still, posters should be able to hide (not delete) messages.   Whether evil or innocent, messages should be removable from public view to stop spreading falsehoods or just to avoid embarrassment.
 
-Jim
 


Re: Auto-trim [External] to keep threads together? #messages

Duane
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:24 AM, Mark Berry wrote:
Is it possible to strip the "[External]" tag before accepting the message into the group?
As a work around, you could moderate anyone that sends these, then remove that part before approving the message.  That should keep it in the original topic.  You'd have to post on the beta group to make the suggestion to change it.  This is a user-to-user group, no GIO management here.

Duane
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Re: Auto-trim [External] to keep threads together? #messages

Mark Berry
 

Ronaldo,

I'm not asking for 7000 languages. I'm asking for the ability to customize what is trimmed beyond just "Re" and "Fw".

As a programmer, I use "trim" to mean "cut off part of a string". What would you call that?

Regards,

Mark Berry


Re: Auto-trim [External] to keep threads together? #messages

ro-esp
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 06:24 PM, Mark Berry wrote:

Is it possible to strip the "[External]" tag before accepting the message into
the group?
In all 7000 languages? Probably not

and in email-country, we wouldn't use the word "auto-trim" for it. Autotrim is what prevents us digest-readers from having to scroll through messages we've already read over and over.


groetjes, Ronaldo


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Jim Avera
 

IMO Google has the right approach with "advance directive" options, while respecting owner's absolute right to not permit others to take over their account if that's what they prefer.

For GIO,  "sunset" actions would be triggered if no owner posts to the list, or sends email to +owner (which might be monitored by other moderators), or logs into groups.io for a specified number of days.

I think the following options are enough (each with its own sunset period).  Multiple actions of the same kind would be permitted:

Just Notify: Send an email to arbitrary recipients (possibly including the list) with a user-specified message.  The timer continues ticking.

Discussion: Owner might privately give their password to someone who could take over.  Or they just want someone to remind them if needed and if they are still alive/capable of acting.   The timer keeps ticking if there are any other actions with longer timeouts, such as Delete.

Add Owner: Add specified email addresses as Owner(s) (upgrading existing subscribers, otherwise just waiting for that email to subscribe).   The timer keeps ticking.

Discussion: It would be up to a new Owner to delete the old Owner if appropriate, i.e. if they were dead.

Change Settings:  Change any of the things under "Settings".   The implementation probably would run a special copy of the Settings dialog to collect the info and then save the results, to be slammed into the real settings when the timeout occurs.

Discussion: This is the most general way for Owners to arrange to transform a group after they are gone, for example by changing the "Description" to indicate the group is 'legacy' or 'archived'.  They might also enable all Members to download archives if not previously allowed, disable posting except by Moderators, etc.

Freeze: Sugar for "Change Settings" to prevent all further activity (no posts, no editing, etc.) and to install a new group "Description". 

Discussion: If an Owner later appears, they could, of course, revert the settings and resume normal operation.  Paid accounts would automatically revert to "free" status if payments stopped being made, thereby reducing storage limits, and at that point files and attachments might be deleted, but not message bodies. 

Permanently Delete: Delete the group and all archived content, optionally sending a specified "Epilog" message to the list (this might be implemented internally with a "Notify" event a few days before the actual group is deleted).

Discussion: Any owner always has the absolute right to delete the group without notice; this is just a way to do so "posthumously".

GIO Enforced Delete:   All groups would have a non-disablable "Permanently Delete" action with some distant timeout, e.g. 5 years, subject to acceleration (with advance notice) by group.io if applied equally to all groups.

Discussion: Necessary to protect groups.io from an unlimited obligation to provide free resources to store, index, and serve dead groups.

(END)


Re: Not getting any responses from one group #owner #cal-reminder #notworking #moderators

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Karen Ivy wrote:
My group, RockridgeNeighborhoodWatchNetwork, is not sending me any emails, although I am the owner and set it up.
Is this "no email" problem affecting everybody, or just you?

If the latter, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and make sure Email Delivery is set to "Individual Messages."

Today I realized by accident that I had a new member application to approve which was created Jan. 31!
Again, in Subscription, scroll down to the Notifications block, and be sure that "Email when there are members needing approval" is checked.

Also examine the other checkboxes and update as appropriate.

This is the group that also isn't posting calendar updates.  I only see posts if I've created them.  Can someone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong??  I set it up to post calendar reminders and it doesn't. 
Check the online message archive. If the notifications are showing up there, the calendar is fine...you just aren't receiving them via email.

I set the group up and own it and I don't see requests for membership, in a moderated group.
It sounds like your group is Restricted. If so, check the Notifications block as mentioned above.

Moderation status has no effect on whether you receive these notifications. 

The settings look the same as for the group RockridgeNCPC,  which is working.
If all the group Settings are truly the same, then the problems lie in your own Subscription.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


Re: in case of orphaned group #poll

SP4149
 

Moderators can have financial responsibility (just Like the list owner assumes).

If a moderator was given financial responsibility by the list owner, they should be able to step in for an absentee owner.

ken clark

www.shastasprings.com


Auto-trim [External] to keep threads together? #messages

Mark Berry
 

As noted in this thread, some email clients or services prepend "[External]" to the subject when a message arrives from outside the organization. This helps recipients avoid being tricked. (E.g the "accounting" department sends an urgent request to an executive asking for a wire transfer to xyz.) Good idea.

The modified subject is of course retained when the recipient replies. Unfortunately, this splits the thread in groups.io. And while it may be possible to manually merge threads, it will be a never-ending process.

Is it possible to strip the "[External]" tag before accepting the message into the group? Or better, is there a way to edit the list of tags that get stripped? I'm assuming it is already stripping "RE:", "FW:", and maybe some other translations. I wouldn't be surprised if the "[External]" tag might also get modified in some systems to read "[Ext]" or "[Ausserhalb]" or whatever.


Re: Prevent members deleting their messages #settings

Duane
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 09:52 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
To delete an entire topic use the drop - down arrow beside the date (in Topic view, obvs) and select Delete Topic.
You can also do this by selecting Edit Topic from the More menu while looking at the message, then clicking Delete Topic.

Duane
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Re: in case of orphaned group #poll

Glenn Glazer
 

I think it should be that 1. is available if the group wants it, but not "always".


in case of orphaned group #poll

ro-esp
 

If the owner cannot be reached and no moderator has the privileges to keep the group running smoothly, how should a new owner be appointed? [this poll is meant to see if there really can be no consensus on this]

Results


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

ro-esp
 

( I'm replying here because the revised text wants to become a separate thread. Also: be aware that there is no such thing as *bold* in plain digests)

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 01:53 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:

1) Support should not have to be involved.
I disagree. If a new owner be appointed, support should make sure that a majority of the group has no problems with the candidate

Agree. If the option is “Opt-In” for owners and can be changed, no one should object.
???


2) Protect group from deletion:
No Moderator should be able to delete a group.
agreed


3) Protect Ownership:
-No Moderator should be able to affect any Owner's role or subscription
settings.
-No Moderator should be able to remove any Owner.
-No junior Owner should be able to remove a senior Owner.
agreed

4) Define Absentee Owner (inactive Owner) (how to trigger promotion of new
Owner)?
Owner(s) must (in Settings) select at least one (revisable):
-not logged in for x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 days?) DEFAULT;
-and/or x Moderation/Subscription notices not acted on for x Days (14
days?);
-any member can 'probe' if there is an active Owner
send email to: <groupname+ownerprobe@groups.io> ?, Owner click on link
or replies to Groups.io, email sent to member of result (not identity)
-"not reacting to emails" when (s)he didn't announce absence;*
-Owner(s) must confirm every x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 or 60 days?) that
they are still active by responding to a Groups.io email;*
-or an algorithm based on the group's typical or current activity;*
Disagree. Plenty of groups work fine for years without the owner doing anything. When things stop functioning because nobody has the proper mod-privileges to fix a problem, someone needs to contact support@groups.io

If the interpretation in first paragraph is adopted, all of the above is moot.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The very idea of Groups.io taking an
active role in determining a successor owner is radioactive to many owners and
inherently divisive to the point that consensus will NEVER be possible.
Sounds like a topic for a poll

5) Chain of Succession (revisable), triggered if no active Owner is
confirmed.
-an ordered list of up to 5-10 designees, promoting 1 (or more) at a time;
That sounds unrealistic. If the whole group agrees, all you need is ONE person to assume ownership


New Owner must confirm promotion (within Absentee Owner test time),
???

otherwise the next in line is queried. (If no one accepts Ownership, group is
inactive)
If nobody accepts the necessary privileges, the group is s#&$!ed


None of the above complexity is necessary or desirable.
yeah, pretty much

groetjes, Ronaldo

[Mild obscenity sanitized by Moderator]


Re: Uploading to files section

Frances
 


Re: Uploading to files section

cmhenry
 

I believe this may have been over looked as have seen subsequent messages on other topics responded so sending a memory jiggle.  As of this point, only owner/moderators seem to be able to post to our files section - each member should have this access.

Please advise and thank you,

Carolyn Henry


On 2/11/20 6:07 AM, cmhenry wrote:
I've searched the messages and can't find anything on what I believe is quite simple...hopefully.
The first of our members to try to post something in our file section cannot.  She does have the 3 buttons at the top of the screen (New Folder, Upload File and Upload Directory) but when hits upload file a red circle with a line through it appears.  She has no issue sending out a message to the group, just uploading files.
I'm obviously  missing something in the member set up - please direct me.
Thank you!!
Carolyn Henry


Not getting any responses from one group #owner #cal-reminder #notworking #moderators

Karen Ivy
 

My group, RockridgeNeighborhoodWatchNetwork, is not sending me any emails, although I am the owner and set it up.  Today I realized by accident that I had a new member application to approve which was created Jan. 31!  This is the group that also isn't posting calendar updates.  I only see posts if I've created them.  Can someone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong??  I set it up to post calendar reminders and it doesn't.  I set the group up and own it and I don't see requests for membership, in a moderated group.  The settings look the same as for the group RockridgeNCPC,  which is working.

Karen Ivy


Re: Prevent members deleting their messages #settings

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 03:42 PM, W David Samuelsen wrote:
Is there a way owner or moderator can delete an offensive or improper (possibly a violation of GDPR) post?
Yes. To delete an inappropriate message click on the "More" hamburger under the message on the web interface, and select Delete Message. To delete an entire topic use the drop - down arrow beside the date (in Topic view, obvs) and select Delete Topic.

Chris