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Re: #question - How can I mark messages and replies as one's I've already read? #question

Tony Moody
 

Nedda,

Re: #question - How can I mark messages and replies as one's I've already read?

You can do that on the web, sort of.
Where it is Messages / Topics change it to
Messages / Messages ; which changes the button label from Topics to Single  :
  this presents all the messages seperately one after the other.  And each message that you have visited will be a slightly different colour.
On my browser the Unread messages are blue and the Read are gray. This colouration seems to be sticky in this view . 

Problems :
The Messages view sometimes reverts to Topics view on re-opening, so just re-select (single)Messages.
Let me know if you want pictures.

OK,
Tony


Re: #question - How can I mark messages and replies as one's I've already read? #question

Duane
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 07:19 AM, Nedda wrote:
Do you know if anyone has requested to groups.io that messages read be permanently marked as read, unless the member unmarks it, or unless a new reply is added?
Yes, that has been on Mark's TODO list since January 9, 2015.  There may be something like that in the upcoming app that may be incorporated in the web site, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Duane
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Re: List Member Removed for Marking Message as Spam Unable to Use Reactivation Link #spam

Patty Sliney
 

Duane, possibly.  She was removed back in December.  I'll ask her and see.  I don't think she is super computer savvy, so this may be the issue. 


--
Patty S.


Re: #question - How can I mark messages and replies as one's I've already read? #question

Nedda
 

Well, this is unfortunate, because every time I come to the group I moderate, it appears that I haven't read anything.  And since I have an sbcglobal.net (att) email address, some of the emails were bounced, so I'm not even sure that I receive everything, even tho' the bouncing program has been corrected.

I'm using groups.io for a teleseries that I teach, and I need to read all the posts to assist my students and offer feedback.

Do you know if anyone has requested to groups.io that messages read be permanently marked as read, unless the member unmarks it, or unless a new reply is added?


Re: #email - I'm not receiving in email all the replies to each post in the group. #email

Nedda
 

Hi, Bruce,

Thanks for your response.

I finally did notice that I some messages to me were listed as "bounced" and I followed the instructions to contact sbcglobal.net.  They fixed it within 2 days, so I'm getting all the mail again.

I appreciate your assistance.


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 11:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm afraid there's no good way to 'program' a lot of this since there are so many variables.  And there are even variables within the variables!
Donald Rumsfeld had something to say along these lines, although his variables were "unknowns".

Chris


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Duane
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 01:27 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
What do people think?
1.  Any new feature should be Opt-In.  There's already too much Opt-Out in the world.

3.  Seniority isn't as simple as promotion date in some cases.  Say a group has 3 owners and for some reason #2 gets removed from the group.  When that owner comes back, they may become #3.

4/5.  There need to be other options as well.  Some owners don't want their groups to continue, so there should also be options to Lock or Delete the group.  As much as I disagree with those policies, it needs to be covered.

I'm afraid there's no good way to 'program' a lot of this since there are so many variables.  And there are even variables within the variables!

Duane
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Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

ro-esp
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 01:20 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:


As a functioning owner, only one of which is necessary (too many cooks spoil
the soup), the power to appoint moderators I reserve to myself.

Since there
are usually more than a single moderator, if all had the power to appoint more
such could encourage a takeover attempt using such means. One could simply
create one’s own “authoritative majority” to thus eventually control the
process of any transition of power.
The amount of moderators is irrelevant. None of them should have the personal power to remove or demote an owner, nor to promote someone to owner.
Demoting an owner should only be possible if a vast majority of the group wants it (or not at all).

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Re: Deleting one post out of a Topic

Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 02:28 AM, W David Samuelsen wrote:
And that includes moving the post to correct subgroup.
There is no function to move posts -- or any other content -- between subgroups.

Bruce


Re: Deleting one post out of a Topic

Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 01:47 AM, Marcia Hudspeth wrote:
Is it possible to delete one post out of a Topic of 27 posts? 
Click open the offending message, then select Delete Message from the More menu at bottom right.

Bruce


Re: Ranking Group Management

Samuel Murray
 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 03:54 AM, Charles Roberts wrote:
I believe all Owners, Moderators, etc should hold rank by seniority of promotion date/time.  No Junior should be able to modify any Senior.  If the most senior Owner does not "check in" for 6 months or whatever, they are de-frocked and the next most senior person promoted.  Exception maybe for Founder.

I agree that such an option would be extremely useful, especially for large groups.  However, since the GMF mailing list can only discuss existing features, and since the Groups.io developers don't really read GMF mails in search of ideas for new features, you should post your suggestion to the "beta" list, with the hashtag #suggestion:

https://beta.groups.io/g/main/post

Samuel

 


Re: #Database #database

Samuel Murray
 

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 06:23 AM, Ken & Marcia EGGERS wrote:
I created a Db, which is a skills survey, and it was not clear how a member/user completed the survey until I bumped the "Add new row button.  Is this how a member might complete this Db survey?

It sounds to me like you're trying to use the database not for the results of the survey but for the survey itself.  For a database table to function as a survey, you'd need to be able to set permissions to (a) allow participants to add records and (b) allow participants to edit only the records that they have created, and at the same time also do not allow them to do things like add columns, add tables, etc.  Also, you'd have to ensure that participants can view only records that they have added (not records that others have added, or at least not all content in those records).

Groups.io's groups' database settings are set in two places, and this originally gave me the impression that what you're trying to do can't be done in a Groups.io database, because if you go to Admin > Settings > Database, it shows that you can only give users permission to create/edit/delete either all content or no content (nothing in between).  But when you create a database table, you can set additional settings, and I think one of the settings you're looking for is Databases > [the database] > Edit Table > Permissions, and set the permissions as:

View Table = Members
Edit Table = Moderators and the Table Owner
Add Rows = Members
Edit Rows = Moderators, the Table Owner, and the Row Owner

You'd then tell users to click the "Add row" button when they want to add information to the table.

The Groups.io database functionality uses specific and inconsistent terminology which may be confusing to ordinary people.   For example, "row owner" is the row creator, "table" sometimes means "database settings" (i.e. not the content) but sometimes it means the database content itself, "row" means record, "column" sometimes means column and sometimes means field.  Oh, and strictly speaking there is only one database per group (a mother database), but it contains multiple "tables", although these tables are often referred to by ordinary people as "databases".

Note:  I don't see a way to prevent all members from viewing all content added by all other members (as well as who added it, and when), and I also don't see a way to prevent members from exporting all the data.  Therefore, using the database as a means to capture survey information may not be a good idea if you're capturing data that some members may consider private.

I think the take-away from all this is that while you can allow members to add their own information to a database and not edit information added by others, the Groups.io database system is still too primitive to be used for the purpose of a survey itself (as opposed to a place where the results of the survey are merely stored).

...where will the results end up? Can they be exported/linked to?
If a member adds a row, the row ends up in the database itself, where it can be seen by all other members and **exported** by all other members.  When data is exported, it is exported as a file (JSON or CSV).  Anyone can link directly to any row from anywhere (e.g. e-mail or third-party web site), but only members who have view permission for that database table will be able to see the data (other people will be prompted to log in when they follow such a link), and the URLs are not really predictable, so it's unlikely that anyone will create a link to your database unless they have access to it anyway.  Try it out:
https://krimpvarkies.groups.io/g/test2/viewrow?id=27944&rowid=2358799&lv=1&p=RowNum,,,100,1,0,2358799

Samuel


  BTW great details on the wiki to create a Db, just nothing after=Create.  Functions of how to use would be useful. user experiences would be helpful. Ken


Re: Deleting one post out of a Topic

W David Samuelsen
 

I would like to know, too

And that includes moving the post to correct subgroup.

David Samuelsen

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 11:47 PM Marcia Hudspeth via Groups.Io <HnMHuds=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
    Is it possible to delete one post out of a Topic of 27 posts?  If so - HOW???


Marcia


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Michael Pavan
 

This discussion has been mostly on topic with good points made.
Original suggestion: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29145

There are more concerns than I originally thought, which probably can be simplified into 5 parts, with only parts 4 & 5 dependent on each other.

I see some ideas have already been introduced on beta, which is fine.

What do people think?

Thanks,
Michael


1) Support should not have to be involved.
Any group should be able to Opt-Out of any new default feature(s), with probably a waiver of intervention by Support if the result could be an orphaned (no active Owner) or deleted group (the status quo) - this should satisfy anyone who believes no change is desirable. Opting In or Out can be changed.


2) Protect group from deletion:
No Moderator should be able to delete a group.
Current "Modify Group Settings" permits a Moderator to "Delete Group"


3) Protect Ownership:
-No Moderator should be able to affect any Owner's role or subscription settings.
-No Moderator should be able to remove any Owner.
-No junior Owner should be able to remove a senior Owner. (sonority determined by promotion date)

Currently these Privileges permit a Moderator to:
-"Set Moderator Privileges (also allows access to the member list and allows setting member subscription options)"
can change an Owner's role, including demoting to Moderator or Member;
can change an Owner's Notifications.
-"Remove Members (also allows access to the member list)"
can remove an Owner, if there are more than one.
Also, related:
-"Set Member Subscription Options (also allows access to the member list)"
can set an Owner to "No Email" and "Override: not allowed to post"


4) Define Absentee Owner (inactive Owner) (how to trigger promotion of new Owner)?
Owner(s) must (in Settings) select at least one (revisable):
-not logged in for x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 days?) DEFAULT;
-and/or x Moderation/Subscription notices not acted on for x Days (14 days?);
-any member can 'probe' if there is an active Owner
send email to: <groupname+ownerprobe@groups.io> ?, Owner click on link or replies to Groups.io, email sent to member of result (not identity)
-"not reacting to emails" when (s)he didn't announce absence;*
-Owner(s) must confirm every x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 or 60 days?) that they are still active by responding to a Groups.io email;*
-or an algorithm based on the group's typical or current activity;*
* other suggestions that need better description.


5) Chain of Succession (revisable), triggered if no active Owner is confirmed.
-an ordered list of up to 5-10 designees, promoting 1 (or more) at a time;
or if no list:
-the most active, most senior Moderator(s);
-or if none, the most active, most senior Member(s).
New Owner must confirm promotion (within Absentee Owner test time), otherwise the next in line is queried. (If no one accepts Ownership, group is inactive)
Owner(s) should consider who to put in the Chain of Succession, advisedly asking if candidates are willing, and/or possibly polling membership for candidates.

On Feb 8, 2020, at 4:34 PM, Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@comcast.net> wrote:

Before making this suggestion to beta, what do people think?

Thanks,
Michael


Absentee Owner Succession feature

Currently, there is no way to have a 'back-up' Owner AND protect a group's Owner(s) from being deposed and/or protect a group from being hijacked or deleted, because:
-If a Moderator has "Set Moderator Privileges" they can promote themself to Owner, and depose the Owner and/or delete the group.
-If there is no active Owner (or Moderator with "Set Moderator Privileges"), no one can be promoted to Owner.

Any group can become essentially 'Owner-less' should the Owner(s) 'disappear' e.g.
-forget their password (if they have one) and are unable to access their email address(es),
-'removed for Spam reporting',
-lose interest,
-become senile,
-suffer a stroke,
-get hit by a bus,
-die, etc.


An "Absentee Owner Succession" feature should allow/require :
1) setting what constitutes 'Absent', i.e. Owner not doing any or all of following:
-not logged in for x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 days?);
-and/or x Moderation/Subscription notices not acted on for x Days (14 days?);
-or an algorithm based on the group's typical or current activity.
2) a Chain of Succession:
-up to 5-10 designees, promoting 1 (or more) at a time;
-the most active, most senior Moderator(s);
-or if none, the most active, most senior Member(s).


Additionally, probably a separate "Founder / Protected Owner" suggestion:
Allow a group's 'creator Owner' (or the most senior Owner) to designate themself and other Owners as "Founders" or "Protected" to prevent their removal. This would not block the "Absentee Owner Succession" feature from promoting a new Owner(s) should these "Founders" or "Protected" became inactive.


Re: Heading and subject line mixed up for subgroups in 'welcome' email

Samuel Murray
 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:21 PM, HUB Cycling wrote:
Subscribers to the sub-groups are getting 'welcome' emails with conflicting details. The subject will say 'welcome to group A" while the body says 'welcome to group B.'
Both the subject line and the body of the welcome member notice are written by the administrator.  These values may be filled in initially but the administrator must check if the text is still correct after creating subgroups.  In your subgroup, go to Admin > Settings > Member Notices > Welcome Type, and then edit the subject line and body of the welcome message.

Samuel


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Janis
 

All an owner needs is a family member who will log into the grouo in case they die, and either run the group, delete the group, or choose a new owner.  Many have a spouse or sibling or offspring already appointed to do this.  It is not something for Grouos.io or group members to do and requires no software changes.no


Deleting one post out of a Topic

Marcia Hudspeth
 

    Is it possible to delete one post out of a Topic of 27 posts?  If so - HOW???


Marcia


Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Janis
 

I really do not like the idea of succession of moderators and I definitely would refuse to have moderators if this feature were added.  I have my groups set so they could continue to function.  When we were at Yahoo, I did not always participate, but other members knew I would be back.  I spend summers outdoors lainting, so my members no I will drop in occasionally, read their messages and be back and active by tge time winter comes.  We all have busy times.  There us absolutely no way for groups.io to determine when a group owner has left permanently and no group owner should have participation deadlines are requirements.  Group owners own the group.  Others should keep hands iff.  If they do not like that, then they can  leave the group.  Members are guests at the party.  They do not own the house where the party takes place.

Most group owners have family members who would step in if they die and take care of group business, inform members, and if they do not want to be owners they can delete the group or appoint a new owner.  Groups.io management, group moderators and members should not have any say in what happens if a group owner us absent for a time or dies.  Groups have no need of a line of succession.


Absentee Owner Succession feature

txercoupemuseum.org
 

The only system-based solution that I have been able to dream up is one
whereby (a) the "real" owner is immune to attempts to downgrade them by anyone
Agree

(b) there is a nominated "new" owner appointed and stored somewhere within the "system”.
Yes, group management succession is a need not yet adequately optioned. In my opinion, doing so should a separate issue/topic/proposal.

and (c) the real owner receives an email (say) once per month requiring them to confirm that they are still in effective control of the group. If they confirm that then they remain the owner. If for whatever reason they fail to confirm it for 2 (?)
consecutive months then ownership is transferred to the nominee.
More than a few Owners “govern in absentia”, i.e. they provide such services as THEY deem necessary and unavoidable. Such is an exclusive right of ownership.

In case of a sole Owner’s unexpected death or functional incapacitation for an extended period, Groups.io could and should upon reasonable written request make such timely determination(s) as they deem appropriate to transition group management responsibility.

Best!

WRB


Re: List Member Removed for Marking Message as Spam Unable to Use Reactivation Link #spam

Duane
 

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Patty Sliney wrote:
did she not realize she resubscribed herself?  I checked and that was not the case. She had not, she was most definitely still not resubscribed. She had to resubmit her membership from scratch.
Had she had to do this before?  The only thing I can think of is that she clicked on the link in an old email instead of the current one.  I believe the link can only be used once and expires in about a week.

Duane
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