Re: Absentee Owner Succession feature

Glenn Glazer
 

This is a very good write-up, Michael.

I am very strongly in the school that features should be opt in. I think that helps mitigate some of the concerns raised here.

I would also make it explicit that if the chain of succession is triggered, a new owner is created and the old owner eventually shows up, they can demote any owner with less seniority than themselves. This is in case the owner is in the hospital or something like that.

Best,

Glenn

On 2/11/2020 23:11, Michael Pavan wrote:
This discussion has been mostly on topic with good points made. 
Original suggestion: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29145

There are more concerns than I originally thought, which probably can be simplified into 5 parts, with only parts 4 & 5 dependent on each other.

I see some ideas have already been introduced on beta, which is fine.

What do people think?

Thanks,
Michael


1) Support should not have to be involved.
Any group should be able to Opt-Out of any new default feature(s), with probably a waiver of intervention by Support if the result could be an orphaned (no active Owner) or deleted group (the status quo) - this should satisfy anyone who believes no change is desirable. Opting In or Out can be changed.


2) Protect group from deletion:
No Moderator should be able to delete a group.
Current "Modify Group Settings" permits a Moderator to "Delete Group"


3) Protect Ownership:
-No Moderator should be able to affect any Owner's role or subscription settings.
-No Moderator should be able to remove any Owner.
-No junior Owner should be able to remove a senior Owner. (sonority determined by promotion date)

Currently these Privileges permit a Moderator to:
-"Set Moderator Privileges (also allows access to the member list and allows setting member subscription options)"
     can change an Owner's role, including demoting to Moderator or Member;
     can change an Owner's Notifications.
-"Remove Members (also allows access to the member list)"
     can remove an Owner, if there are more than one.
Also, related:
-"Set Member Subscription Options (also allows access to the member list)"
     can set an Owner to "No Email" and "Override: not allowed to post"


4) Define Absentee Owner (inactive Owner) (how to trigger promotion of new Owner)?
Owner(s) must (in Settings) select at least one (revisable):
  -not logged in for x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 days?) DEFAULT; 
  -and/or x Moderation/Subscription notices not acted on for x Days (14 days?);
  -any member can 'probe' if there is an active Owner
     send email to: <groupname+ownerprobe@groups.io> ?, Owner click on link or replies to Groups.io, email sent to member of result (not identity)
  -"not reacting to emails" when (s)he didn't announce absence;*
  -Owner(s) must confirm every x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 or 60 days?) that they are still active by responding to a Groups.io email;*
  -or an algorithm based on the group's typical or current activity;*
* other suggestions that need better description.


5) Chain of Succession (revisable), triggered if no active Owner is confirmed.
  -an ordered list of up to 5-10 designees, promoting 1 (or more) at a time; 
      or if no list:
  -the most active, most senior Moderator(s); 
  -or if none, the most active, most senior Member(s). 
New Owner must confirm promotion (within Absentee Owner test time), otherwise the next in line is queried. (If no one accepts Ownership, group is inactive)
Owner(s) should consider who to put in the Chain of Succession, advisedly asking if candidates are willing, and/or possibly polling membership for candidates.




On Feb 8, 2020, at 4:34 PM, Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@...> wrote:

Before making this suggestion to beta, what do people think?

Thanks,
Michael


Absentee Owner Succession feature

Currently, there is no way to have a 'back-up' Owner AND protect a group's Owner(s) from being deposed and/or protect a group from being hijacked or deleted, because:
 -If a Moderator has "Set Moderator Privileges" they can promote themself to Owner, and depose the Owner and/or delete the group. 
 -If there is no active Owner (or Moderator with "Set Moderator Privileges"), no one can be promoted to Owner.

Any group can become essentially 'Owner-less' should the Owner(s) 'disappear' e.g. 
 -forget their password (if they have one) and are unable to access their email address(es), 
 -'removed for Spam reporting', 
 -lose interest, 
 -become senile, 
 -suffer a stroke, 
 -get hit by a bus, 
 -die, etc.


An "Absentee Owner Succession" feature should allow/require :
1) setting what constitutes 'Absent', i.e. Owner not doing any or all of following:
  -not logged in for x Days, Weeks, or Months (30 days?); 
  -and/or x Moderation/Subscription notices not acted on for x Days (14 days?);
  -or an algorithm based on the group's typical or current activity.
2) a Chain of Succession: 
  -up to 5-10 designees, promoting 1 (or more) at a time; 
  -the most active, most senior Moderator(s); 
  -or if none, the most active, most senior Member(s). 


Additionally, probably a separate "Founder / Protected Owner" suggestion:
Allow a group's 'creator Owner' (or the most senior Owner) to designate themself and other Owners as "Founders" or "Protected" to prevent their removal. This would not block the "Absentee Owner Succession" feature from promoting a new Owner(s) should these "Founders" or "Protected" became inactive.







--
PG&E Delenda Est

Join GroupManagersForum@groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.