names of prickings - opnions asked


Marian Tempels
 

Hi all,

As Jo is doing interesting things with prickings ....

We already have difficulties with the naming of grounds. Ground being defined here as pricking + stitches. 
There is also the name of the pricking itself.

On Tesselace-GF the prickings have an ID, on MAE-GF they also have an ID, but this last one is not always visible to the user, and follows Marian's logic (and have errors).
In Whithing-GF the grounds have an ID.
All those ID's are not always clear to a user.

Some prickings can be named, like "rose ground scheme", "spider 3x4 legs", .... 
But how to name grounds like "rose ground ringed", "litle snowflake alternatively placed", stretched versions, etc etc etc. ?

Or should we not use visible names at all?

(As Work In Progress I'm removing all visual ID (grounds and prickings) from MAE-GF. And add more pictures.)

--
Groetjes van Marian


Jo Pol
 

Perhaps we need (also?) another concept than IDs. The address component is not enforced nor validated and the corresponding pattern definitions not retrieved from a database. It can also be bad practice in general to give (components of) IDs a meaning.

We might better talk about tags. An advantage of the tag concept is that you can apply multiple tags to the same pattern and a tag may also apply to groups of patterns. Tags are optional.

We currently have two groups of tags. The `whiting=...` tags cause a reference to the book about the sample by Gertrude Whiting, the tag is composed from the position of the pattern in the sampler and the page number in the book. The tag is dropped with any change to the pattern. The `tesselace=...` tags  are the file names that are packaged with the Inkscape plugins. The tag persists as long as you don't change the matrix. We might need to explain this behavior under 'features' on the help pages.

For the MAE-gf pattern there is no such obvious choice. Traditional names for patterns can also serve as tags though they can cause confusion because of regional differences.

Another group of tags we might think of is the type of matrices (s/b/o for simple/brick/overlapping). The TesseLace pages group patterns by the size of the largest hole. So another group of tags might indicate the number of edges around the 2 or 3 largest holes. Thus we could add `tags=o,6-3` to `whiting=C4_P118`.


Pierre Fouché
 

I'm a little late to this discussion, apologies, I've been helping my parents move and unpack yesterday and today.

With all the regional differences in names, I've started to refer to grounds by large family names after a discussion with Jane A who suggested I downplay the term "Binche" and "Snowflakes" because people tend to react to it with aversion without even trying. This has snowballed into an attempt to create a "non-denominational" (divorced from regional and technique traditions) language to which people might not have any preconceived opinions, but still have a logic to them that is useful to group grounds and new variations of them under: 

two pair grounds (nets), 
dropped stitch grounds (honeycombs and kat stitches), 
four pair grounds (rose grounds and small snowflakes), 
and six pair grounds (large snowflakes), 
"ring-paired" or "framed" helps to extend the range to grounds that use more pairs per repeat but which retain the snowflake motif somewhere.
I've not extended the geometric framework to 8 pair grounds just yet, although there are some impressive examples in Binche.

Looking at a historical example of Binche questions the above system because snowflakes/balls can be made with any amount of pairs, 5, 6, 7 8, 9.. and more often than not in the same area (like where a filling ends in a point and all the snowflakes become smaller nearer the point - it boggles the mind, really.

Other grounds that don't fit in the above so easily:
Bias grounds - most people interested in textiles understand it as a straight weave turned 45 degrees, but lacemakers have adopted this name for diagonal stripes of all kinds it seems.
Triangular grounds. I'm new to the term "Pagoda" but it is wonderfully appropriate.
And if all else fails, to use Cook & Stott's names because it seems to be on everyone's essential lace book list. 

I have by no means been ultra-consistent, since I am a product of my regional lace community too so I often call things what Charlotte calls them (or what I think Charlotte refers to when she says "x" - I've been guilty of misrepresenting my teacher too) Nobody in my South African lace group knew about Gertrude Whiting. I got introduced to her epic work in the US, so the whiting index numbers are very foreign to me, but if it makes sense or makes it easy to use from a database perspective, more power to us.

I'm a fairly new convert to tags, it seems the most accommodating way to make something referencable through a variety of aliases and properties. (My growing collection of essential oils and fragrance absolutes could do with a "tag cloud" sorting app, because it is difficult to find fragrances with similar qualities or emotional symbolic effects in online references usually a page dedicated to a plant/essential oil with little or vague cross-referencing). I tried a spreadsheet but it goes on forever with all the columns rendering it us useful as a box o hair.

And if a completely new ground's name is up for grabs I like colourful descriptive names. Like "Pagoda" In Afrikaans, a triangular ground is called "Mannetjies en Vroutjies" (Little Husbands & Little Wives) - and from what I gather there is a long tradition of fun and innuendo in lace history. If it's all the same, why not opt for a fun name? (A cover cloth with a small circular hole in - for working pieced laces is called a "gatlappie" - which elicits giggles from everyone because it also means "little ass-cloth" or "ass-wipe". Afrikaans lacemakers with the best sense of humour often ask to borrow someone's "little ass wipe" with a straight face which elicits even more laughter)  even more unrelated On the subject of "lappies" (little cloths): an old dish cloth is called a "jammer-lappie" (Sad little cloth).

I'm clearly over-tired from my parents' move. (They're so excited to be close to the ocean for their retirement- it is so adorable and utterly worth while)
 
Excuse the ambling nonsense. Off to bed...

Pierre








On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 23:18, Jo Pol <jo.pol@...> wrote:
Perhaps we need (also?) another concept than IDs. The address component is not enforced nor validated and the corresponding pattern definitions not retrieved from a database. It can also be bad practice in general to give (components of) IDs a meaning.

We might better talk about tags. An advantage of the tag concept is that you can apply multiple tags to the same pattern and a tag may also apply to groups of patterns. Tags are optional.

We currently have two groups of tags. The `whiting=...` tags cause a reference to the book about the sample by Gertrude Whiting, the tag is composed from the position of the pattern in the sampler and the page number in the book. The tag is dropped with any change to the pattern. The `tesselace=...` tags  are the file names that are packaged with the Inkscape plugins. The tag persists as long as you don't change the matrix. We might need to explain this behavior under 'features' on the help pages.

For the MAE-gf pattern there is no such obvious choice. Traditional names for patterns can also serve as tags though they can cause confusion because of regional differences.

Another group of tags we might think of is the type of matrices (s/b/o for simple/brick/overlapping). The TesseLace pages group patterns by the size of the largest hole. So another group of tags might indicate the number of edges around the 2 or 3 largest holes. Thus we could add `tags=o,6-3` to `whiting=C4_P118`.



--
Best

Pierre Fouché       
  
■         +27725075951         
■         www.pierrefouche.net 







Marian Tempels
 

Funny story, Pierre, about het gatlapje. I also call it such.

The triangular ground was introduced to me as " mannetjes en vrouwtjes", my teacher was not sure which side was the female :). Later, somebody told me it was "pagoda's". And some time ago, " triangular ground" popped up.
I learned the point vierge, later called fond au cinq trous (*), what is also known as rose ground, and what I learned to be a rose ground, is a paris ground or kat. And I have not yet figured out when it's a lotus or a lattice.
(*) if made in flanders lace, with only one pin.

So there are naming issues on stitches, grounds, prickings. Luckily we agree on the word "lace". 

I had some thoughts where to put the pricking of the "vase" ground, as it can be used to emphazise the holes like a paris ground, or, emphasize the connections, like a snowflake.  So it went on "misselaneous".

Labeling prickings as 2-paired or 4-paired ground is a good idea. It should be possible to put more labels (tags) on prickings, as spiders are fairly recognisable.  I prefer names or short descritions above a number system that has to be explained.

There also is a connection between the bias-pricking and the little snowflakes. To confuse things even more. Both 4-pairs, but there is another connection. I also learned that the paris ground is best made as 4-paired ground, it pulls less sideways.
--
Groetjes van Marian


Sue Babbs
 

I hope your parents settle in well and enjoy their retirement by the sea.  Are they now living near you?  If so, they must be thrilled to be near one of their sons and the sea!