Topics

The Glenn Beier film


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Group,

Through Randy Decker's fine investigative work, I was able to acquire the 16mm film Glenn Beier and JA made in 1968 from Glenn's widow.

We were hoping it would, using modern film scanning techniques, yield a better result than is seen on the Sunday River video.

Alas, even with a 2K professional film scan, the film resolution and degradation with time have not yielded the results we were hoping for.

I am still learning Adobe Premier video editor, but even so you can't get blood from a stone.

Here's a small sample (link below). I haven't fully compared the film with the Sunday River footage, but I'm also pretty sure there is no "new" footage.

The good news is Randy has a pile of prints and negatives from Glenn that he will be scanning. If any of you have Glenn's book "Steam Echoes", you know he was a gifted photographer and these should yield some really nice results.

Regards,

Jeff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vkJ35BmvMaQvXR8-sAY5dvW8DI_sKdoE


Russell Courtenay
 

Looks pretty darn good to me Jeff! 
Smooth, no jumps, clean and clear as the original! Thanks for the work you are doing, can’t wait to see more!

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Mar 21, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Group,

Through Randy Decker's fine investigative work, I was able to acquire the 16mm film Glenn Beier and JA made in 1968 from Glenn's widow.

We were hoping it would, using modern film scanning techniques, yield a better result than is seen on the Sunday River video.

Alas, even with a 2K professional film scan, the film resolution and degradation with time have not yielded the results we were hoping for.

I am still learning Adobe Premier video editor, but even so you can't get blood from a stone.

Here's a small sample (link below). I haven't fully compared the film with the Sunday River footage, but I'm also pretty sure there is no "new" footage.

The good news is Randy has a pile of prints and negatives from Glenn that he will be scanning. If any of you have Glenn's book "Steam Echoes", you know he was a gifted photographer and these should yield some really nice results.

Regards,

Jeff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vkJ35BmvMaQvXR8-sAY5dvW8DI_sKdoE


Michael Kennedy
 

This is fantastic!  Can't wait to see the whole thing!


On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 at 16:45, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Group,

Through Randy Decker's fine investigative work, I was able to acquire the 16mm film Glenn Beier and JA made in 1968 from Glenn's widow.

We were hoping it would, using modern film scanning techniques, yield a better result than is seen on the Sunday River video.

Alas, even with a 2K professional film scan, the film resolution and degradation with time have not yielded the results we were hoping for.

I am still learning Adobe Premier video editor, but even so you can't get blood from a stone.

Here's a small sample (link below). I haven't fully compared the film with the Sunday River footage, but I'm also pretty sure there is no "new" footage.

The good news is Randy has a pile of prints and negatives from Glenn that he will be scanning. If any of you have Glenn's book "Steam Echoes", you know he was a gifted photographer and these should yield some really nice results.

Regards,

Jeff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vkJ35BmvMaQvXR8-sAY5dvW8DI_sKdoE


Randy Lee Decker
 

    My fingers have been crossed since the first day. 

 Jeff, it is nice that you mention me every time you speak of the film, I was glad to have had found the opportunity to acquire some of Glenn's things.  I was was a middle man on the movie transaction.  We both saw the importance and made it happen.  Hats of for saving that movie, I could not financially swing that whole deal without your help so, enough said sir...   It is the only 16MM footage ever attempted in Johns place. 
 
  I knew it would be in far better hands with you.   So from me A huge thank you for this undertaking.  And if at the very least the historic preservation of this film is the end result then that's not so bad either. 

  I have been dealing with a terribly pesky health issue, thought after surgery (finally) that the troubles were done.. 4 months lost.... (other things involved) you all know the drill..  Just Life...  "problems are the shit that keeps it interesting"    Then things looking good last week and bang.... an infection.......   Ahhhhhhh   the plans of mice and men and all that.   

My injury is foot related and the damned thing has to be elevated (again) while it heals ....again....So that makes it impossible to stand at the layout or sit at the workbench without great effort and jerry rigging but I do have this scanner spun around where I can come at it differently and I will see how fast I can learn and how frustrated I get.... to make some good scans to send. 

YES there are some good things in here.....  I'd estimate 80-85 large format negatives but about 30 of these are duplicate shots using different exposure settings so that cuts down the usable numbers fast.    Anyway, new stuff coming...   65% of these are from the second layout the rest from the 1960's on Cielo Vista. 
    Finally,  I can share something with the group that has shared so much with me.....!!!!!!!!         
  
Randy  

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 4:45 PM Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Group,

Through Randy Decker's fine investigative work, I was able to acquire the 16mm film Glenn Beier and JA made in 1968 from Glenn's widow.

We were hoping it would, using modern film scanning techniques, yield a better result than is seen on the Sunday River video.

Alas, even with a 2K professional film scan, the film resolution and degradation with time have not yielded the results we were hoping for.

I am still learning Adobe Premier video editor, but even so you can't get blood from a stone.

Here's a small sample (link below). I haven't fully compared the film with the Sunday River footage, but I'm also pretty sure there is no "new" footage.

The good news is Randy has a pile of prints and negatives from Glenn that he will be scanning. If any of you have Glenn's book "Steam Echoes", you know he was a gifted photographer and these should yield some really nice results.

Regards,

Jeff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vkJ35BmvMaQvXR8-sAY5dvW8DI_sKdoE


Lee
 

Pretty impressive with what’s there. Some vintage music like you hear on many of the vintage rail videos and it sets the tone right off! Very nice. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA


Jeff Johnston
 

A nice looking conversion, I presume you used a company with a flying spot scanner?

Premiere can help with the poor color balance, contrast, and exposure, so once you get up and running with Premiere you may surprise yourself with the results. I work with Final Cut Pro for my television day job and it's amazing what it can do in the hands of someone experienced with color correction and the like (that's not me). 

I enjoy the Sunday River video but would also enjoy a new improved version!

Next up on the fantasy wish list, a new version of the Alturas & Lone Pine video?

Best regards,
Jeff Johnston
trainvideosandparts.com


Russell Courtenay
 

There’s an A&LP video?!? I’d like to see that!

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Mar 22, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Jeff Johnston <splco-mwry@...> wrote:

A nice looking conversion, I presume you used a company with a flying spot scanner?

Premiere can help with the poor color balance, contrast, and exposure, so once you get up and running with Premiere you may surprise yourself with the results. I work with Final Cut Pro for my television day job and it's amazing what it can do in the hands of someone experienced with color correction and the like (that's not me). 

I enjoy the Sunday River video but would also enjoy a new improved version!

Next up on the fantasy wish list, a new version of the Alturas & Lone Pine video?

Best regards,
Jeff Johnston
trainvideosandparts.com


Jeff Johnston
 

A way freight operations video on the Alturas & Lone Pine. Kind of tongue in cheek, in general, but a look at some of Towers' modeling and whatnot. I found a VHS copy some years back, it was originally sold by the RMC department with back issues and other books.

It, too, could use a proper transfer.

Jeff


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Used Cinelab in MA. A pro place, not some consumer outfit.

Here's the order form. Not sure which one they used, but the tech told me anything over 2K would be a waste.

http://www.cinelab.com/PDFS/16mm_Data_Scanning_Order_Form_2017.pdf

He said he did some basic global color correction because of the film's degraded state, but I did not go for the full restoration package.

Jeff


Charles Kinzer
 

I don’t know what it would cost to have this massaged more, but there are certainly color examples from slides that look pretty good to me.  “The book” might be the best color authority.  Such as the rocks are much more grey and you can see green foliage tufts pretty clearly in the slides.

 

If cost is an issue, may there can be a “pass the hat” request to see if it can be funded that way.

 

And the experiment done by Eugen where he sent some short clips did show a sharpening improvement.  I grabbed a frame just with “print screen” (not fancy) of “before and after” and put some slices of the original and sharpened together.  Places you can see the improvement pretty well are the two halves of the one refrigerator car, the two domes on the engine, and the rock detail just above the engine.  And the bridge of course.

 

 

Here is a part of slide S0_069 from the GDlines site cropped to be an area similar to the film frame for color comparison.  Of course, everybody’s monitor may be slightly different and the original slide may have color shifted some from age, and when originally scanned there might have been some color shifting, and…and…and.  Still, it is probably reasonably representative.

 

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 7:17 AM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] The Glenn Beier film

 

Used Cinelab in MA. A pro place, not some consumer outfit.

Here's the order form. Not sure which one they used, but the tech told me anything over 2K would be a waste.

http://www.cinelab.com/PDFS/16mm_Data_Scanning_Order_Form_2017.pdf

He said he did some basic global color correction because of the film's degraded state, but I did not go for the full restoration package.

Jeff

 


David Thomas
 

Hi Jeff

Thanks for posting the clip, it's wonderful just to see this short shot, it somehow seems to emphasise how grand the G&D's scenery was in comparison with the trains.

 I certainly applaud you and  Randy's efforts to preserve this film and get it out into the world.

Depending on the film stock it was shot on,  the Cinelab tech was probably right. The grain size for 16mm gives a maximum horizontal definition of about 1800 discrete lines and the horizontal definition of 2K video  is 1556 lines so there is a point of diminishing returns  (a surprising amount of HD television is still shot on 16mm film). I'd hazard a guess that Glenn was using a reasonably fast film so a bit more grainy than the slowest outdoor film.

Whatever the transfer got from each frame may well be the basis for getting a lot more by various processes of interpolation and compatinf several frame that seems to be becoming avaiaable to use even on the desktop.

If you want to see  what's possible and with a railway context take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RYNThid23g

It's been upscaled from one of the first films ever made anywhere in 1895 and the Lumiere brothers' short films were the first to be projected in a theatre  It was shot at about 16fps on 35mm film.

Copies of the original can be easily found on line and thogh the quality of each frame is surprsingly good it's definitely not 60fps. BTW  Ignore the soundtrack, that's not a French locomotive whistle and loudspeaker station announcements, particularly pre-recorded ones, were a long way in the future  in 1896.



Though I'm definitely no expert I did have had a very quick look at a frame from this in Paint Shop Pro and with iterally just a few minutes work got to this. With the existing slides as reference, there's plenty of scope for someone who really does know what they're doing (unlike me!) to get really good results from this. .


Best wishes

David


Kurt Youngmann
 

One of the women on the platform was wearing some kind of mask over her nose & mouth. Hmmm… I wonder if there was a virus epidemic in 1895. <G>

Kidding aside, I send my best wishes to all my friends and colleagues on this forum and hope everyone is well - AND taking proper precautions to stay that way.

Kurt Youngmann

On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:09 PM, David Thomas via Groups.Io <david.thomas967@...> wrote:

If you want to see  what's possible and with a railway context take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RYNThid23g

It's been upscaled from one of the first films ever made anywhere in 1895 and the Lumiere brothers' short films were the first to be projected in a theatre  It was shot at about 16fps on 35mm film.




***

 "Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves." - Albert Einstein



Tom Hokel (Pine Ridge RR)
 

David,

Thanks for the clip. That's amazing quality.
--
Tom
<PR> PINE RIDGE RR


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Sorry I have been silent for a while...have been working from home, and just don't have the energy to spend more time on a screen after a long day.

That being said, there have been some great suggestions, especially using the slides as references for the color correction.

Bear in mind, I spent only a couple of hours learning the program and experimenting, so this was by no means intended to be the final product!!! I am a little disappointed with the capabilities of Adobe Premier, but I am still learning it.

My first step will be to fully catalog the contents, and cross reference to the Sunday River content.

So thanks for the suggestions, and please be patient. The film has been archived, and that is the key first step.

Regards, Jeff