Topics

Port and the bridge:


Don Mitchell <donm@...>
 

My apologies if this repeats what I've previously posted, but recent correspondence with a layout designer included these comments to him:

When I was the Port operator, my response to John about the slowness of the switching was that the controls near the right end were not satisfactory by reason of location.  Switching the ferry meant walking back and forth between the control panel and the cars to do uncoupling, lining turnouts, etc.

John generally disregarded my comments until the next time he ran Port.  He didn't say much about any problems then, but at the next op session there was an additional set of controls nearer the ferry. <g>

The temporary bridge at Port was an operating substitution for the envisioned bascule bridge.  Originally there were only 2 tracks at Port (main and siding?), and they were what was considered in the original design of the bascule.

The 3rd track a Port was added to cope with the operational problems that cropped up.  I believe, but cannot substantiate, that this resulted from crew changes.  The crew of locals in later years was more familiar with the pattern of ops than the crew that was recruited from the military bases when I started in 1962.  The local crew could move more cars more quickly, generating the need for additional track.

Since the 3rd track also spanned the entrance to the harbor, the bascule would have to be redesigned to accommodate it.  My vague recollection of discussing this with John is that it would have been odd to see a bascule containing a dead end spur.

FWIW, there was a similar track expansion at Gorre.  The track nearest the aisle was added to ease operational problems caused mainly by the combination of local switching and setouts along with using Gorre for meets.


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Interesting Don.  Two questions/points of interest if I may?

 I thought there was a control panel at Port.   Just to the left of the water.......  ?  Should that have been moved to the right?  or am I perhaps seeing the panel in later years in photos?   

 As for the bascule bridge I will be building the two track version John had planned before he added the extra run for operations, as I have mentioned before, I thought it would be foolish for any railroad to build a third lane on a bridge, and especially the cost and engineering for a lift bridge, because a switch was located ten feet from the entrance to the bridge.    They would just move the switch to the other side.     And that is what I am doing to help solve the problem.   I won't have the operations so much to consider as John did.   

What John built and how so many guy's could fill an evening of realistic operations is ......still to this day..... only something I can imagine.     

Randy


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

BTW ... Cooper Electric is going in right now...   Soldering up some old code 100 flex track that I will bury later on..... It's going well but I am not used to the tight corners and bending rails for steep streets and etc.  Never ran an electric line.... the overhead wires will take some time....  never attempted any of that either. 

     I will officially RUN a TRAIN on the GD and have some pancakes for John on Tuesday.     !  

Randy      


Don Mitchell <donm@...>
 

Re Port controls, my memory likely had the original and added locations swapped.  From the diagram in the book, the original control was at the left and the added control at the right.  Apologies for the muddle.

Don M.


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

No sir no muddle and no apologies ever needed here.   I am dealing with hanging wires now and with DCC or staying with DC blocks my mind is always trying to figure how I will control all of this.   So please do reflect anytime Don. 

?..; Can I assume those two boards worked in unison?  Did you switch off power on one board and switch on the other or did they tie into one power source and each rheostat hooked to the same circuit?   The electrical work will be coming up for me very soon and I am a bit nervous about the time this will take and having the operations at least work somewhat closely to what John had.   So any memories or thoughts on working those controls is something I can't get enough of.    
   
  You and Rod Smith and some of the other guy's have some wonderful posts on operations in the files.   I realise I came very late to this JA party Don, so sadly many of my questions have been answered more than once and I can imagine the same questions must get tedious to any of you who have always been the only source for these queries. 
 
    I am trying to compile what I can from the old notes so I can save any eye rolling questions as best I can.    

Randy 


Russell Courtenay
 

Trains running is great news Randy! Be sure to give us photos and descriptions or even a video!


On Jun 30, 2019, at 4:26 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

BTW ... Cooper Electric is going in right now...   Soldering up some old code 100 flex track that I will bury later on..... It's going well but I am not used to the tight corners and bending rails for steep streets and etc.  Never ran an electric line.... the overhead wires will take some time....  never attempted any of that either. 

     I will officially RUN a TRAIN on the GD and have some pancakes for John on Tuesday.     !  

Randy      


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

I have to figure out how this camera will take a video.  I know it can, all new cameras do this.  I think my facebook page will have more interest Russell, I will post it there.    

Anyway In case anyone actually reads this post,  I just learned the hard way code 100 just will not make the crazy tight curves you need for a realistic looking, city street, electric line.  The corners pinch no matter how hard you try.   I think I knew this from long ago, but totally thought I could pull it off and get rid of some track I had around..    Eghhhh.... wrong.... total fail....   
    I pulled up what I had down and the code 83 seems to be working fine.   Pancakes and perhaps an old railbus in the morning for me...  I do not own an electric car.  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no response.   odd....   

Whatever.
Randy


Warner Swarner
 

Randy, I read your posts and find your info quite interesting always.  
The bigger the rail, the more problem with some radii AND vertical transition curves must be closely watched as well. Vertical kinks or sideways tilt, especially at turnouts, cause us many derailment woes on outdoor track. Your electric line probably doesn’t have any switches to worry, but I bet you have some vertical transitions.  Probably not a problem with no trailing cars, but still a problem spot for us old timers in the hobby who are still laying rail and bending iron.
I always have trouble finding photos people are talking about.  I will look more often for your FB.  I probably don’t sit down long enough to follow some threads and sure can’t remember passwords.
Warner



On Jul 1, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

I have to figure out how this camera will take a video.  I know it can, all new cameras do this.  I think my facebook page will have more interest Russell, I will post it there.    

Anyway In case anyone actually reads this post,  I just learned the hard way code 100 just will not make the crazy tight curves you need for a realistic looking, city street, electric line.  The corners pinch no matter how hard you try.   I think I knew this from long ago, but totally thought I could pull it off and get rid of some track I had around..    Eghhhh.... wrong.... total fail....   
    I pulled up what I had down and the code 83 seems to be working fine.   Pancakes and perhaps an old railbus in the morning for me...  I do not own an electric car.  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no response.   odd....   

Whatever.
Randy


W.R.Dixon
 

. . .  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no response.   odd....

Planning on hitting an IHOP for Jam Breakfast tomorrow.

Bill Dixon


Warner Swarner
 

On my large scale “very narrow gauge” mining line, I went down to dual gauge to hand lay enough track to satisfy requirements for my MMR Engineering Award.  I had to scratch build dual gauge turnouts so I did G (45mm)/ O (31.75mm) using Code 250 brass rail.  It is So easy to work with compared to code 332 for short radii and small frogs.  Of course “small” to me is the size of an HOn3 boxcar.  Everything is relative, but as you get really older, those tiny small HO grab irons disappear and 1:20 couplers can be seen without glasses.  I actually re-rail my cars be feel not my sight.  You can “feel” the flanges and  even us half-deaf old goats can “hear” if there is a derail.  
Randy,
I admire your tenacity to put in the electric street car line and get it running.  That is such an important detail, which needs to run perfectly as it is not in easy reach.  I never understood how JA got his curves and grade to fit back there.  That one area still makes me cringe coming down his steep street into such a sharp turn but he did run one way only.  But he made it work, and I am positive you will have it running flawlessly.  That is one area I will be sticking my nose into when I see your re-creation running.  I do hope you will actually improve on John’s idea by adding some triggered sounds to the animation of the streetcar activity.  John would jump on using modern electronics to enhance movement, lighting and well placed and timed sounds.  We have often debated “what would JA do?”.  I am sure this is one area he would have enhanced for visitor interest even though it wasn’t up front.  He did love surprise and entertainment.  
Warner 


On Jul 1, 2019, at 2:48 PM, Warner Swarner via Groups.Io <wbswarner@...> wrote:

Randy, I read your posts and find your info quite interesting always.  
The bigger the rail, the more problem with some radii AND vertical transition curves must be closely watched as well. Vertical kinks or sideways tilt, especially at turnouts, cause us many derailment woes on outdoor track. Your electric line probably doesn’t have any switches to worry, but I bet you have some vertical transitions.  Probably not a problem with no trailing cars, but still a problem spot for us old timers in the hobby who are still laying rail and bending iron.
I always have trouble finding photos people are talking about.  I will look more often for your FB.  I probably don’t sit down long enough to follow some threads and sure can’t remember passwords.
Warner



On Jul 1, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

I have to figure out how this camera will take a video.  I know it can, all new cameras do this.  I think my facebook page will have more interest Russell, I will post it there.    

Anyway In case anyone actually reads this post,  I just learned the hard way code 100 just will not make the crazy tight curves you need for a realistic looking, city street, electric line.  The corners pinch no matter how hard you try.   I think I knew this from long ago, but totally thought I could pull it off and get rid of some track I had around..    Eghhhh.... wrong.... total fail....   
    I pulled up what I had down and the code 83 seems to be working fine.   Pancakes and perhaps an old railbus in the morning for me...  I do not own an electric car.  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no response.   odd....   

Whatever.
Randy


Graham Stokes
 

Hi Bill.  Where did you post it?
Graham


From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> on behalf of W.R.Dixon <WRDixon@...>
Sent: July 1, 2019 10:25 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Port and the bridge:
 
. . .  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no
response.   odd....

Planning on hitting an IHOP for Jam Breakfast tomorrow.

Bill Dixon




Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

 Yes some tips and tilts and graded tight radius curves...  Just got done doing some shimming and nailing and had a nice little rail bus running...  Have to finish the last piece now in the back corner so it makes a full lope.  And yes this makes it continuous with no switches....!   It is just like my first trains made with sections of brass track and a few pieces of flex track in a big oval on the hardwood floor in the spare room.    I have to gear a trolley to run nice and slow as itis the track is only 18' so the trains come round the bands often and quick.     Would be a hell of a fun scary ride in real life. 

I do post photos in here as well.  I am glad someone sees them.  '


Randy

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 5:48 PM Warner Swarner via Groups.Io <wbswarner=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Randy, I read your posts and find your info quite interesting always.  
The bigger the rail, the more problem with some radii AND vertical transition curves must be closely watched as well. Vertical kinks or sideways tilt, especially at turnouts, cause us many derailment woes on outdoor track. Your electric line probably doesn’t have any switches to worry, but I bet you have some vertical transitions.  Probably not a problem with no trailing cars, but still a problem spot for us old timers in the hobby who are still laying rail and bending iron.
I always have trouble finding photos people are talking about.  I will look more often for your FB.  I probably don’t sit down long enough to follow some threads and sure can’t remember passwords.
Warner



On Jul 1, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

I have to figure out how this camera will take a video.  I know it can, all new cameras do this.  I think my facebook page will have more interest Russell, I will post it there.    

Anyway In case anyone actually reads this post,  I just learned the hard way code 100 just will not make the crazy tight curves you need for a realistic looking, city street, electric line.  The corners pinch no matter how hard you try.   I think I knew this from long ago, but totally thought I could pull it off and get rid of some track I had around..    Eghhhh.... wrong.... total fail....   
    I pulled up what I had down and the code 83 seems to be working fine.   Pancakes and perhaps an old railbus in the morning for me...  I do not own an electric car.  Funny, I posted John's Birthday a few days ago.   Got no response.   odd....   

Whatever.
Randy


Jim Wells <enginears@...>
 

Hey Warner,

John was my hero, like so many I grew up a model railroader and hung on every article in MR and also Boys Life:).  Happy birthday John...

In the late 80’s my wife Christie & I had been married less than a decade when she saw me weeping for the first time.  I had just read the book for the first time, and hadn’t heard about the fire before... she knew about my modeling and my hero, and understood, but was shook by my reaction.  She’s the best:).

I may be drummed out of the group for sharing this next part, but something you said struck home, so here goes.  In the 90’s, semi-retired from doing sound in the theme parks, I turned my experience to scratch building scale sound models for my own layout.  I floundered around, making many mistakes until I stumbled into something that actually worked  (in true model railroader tradition:).  Without boring you with technobabble I can say it was pure illusion, cheating by any standard, it was magic:).  I repeated it a bunch of times to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating:), or wishful listening.  I told Christie, I have to share this with my Hobby!

This is the weird part.  I said I wanted to do the same thing in the scale aural image, that John did in the scale visual image... to push so much new dirt in the medium that people would still be trying to figure it out long after I’m gone.  I knew even if I was wildly successful that I’d never be able to contribute like John... but that was my goal.

The thing you said about wondering what John might be doing with today’s technology hit home.  I’m blessed to be working with audio editing that no one dreamed of back then, and with fellow model railroaders who have that expertise in the technology.  And am making sound, sound quietly huge, not loud, just big:).  I’ve shared it with anybody who’ll listen, and done everything I can think of to make it accessible to the average model railroader.  I know I’m no JWA, I know that.  But I know I’m inspired by the best:)!

OK, I’ll go away now and have some pancakes.  So tickled this group exists, and grateful to have stumbled into it,
jim:)
--
Have fun!
www.fantasonics.com


Warner Swarner
 

Our local large scale train club (Rose City Garden Railway Society) had our regular monthly breakfast today (about 30 meet regularly for breakfast discussion at a local Elmer’s Restaurant).   Just happened to fall on John’s birthday.  To honor John, we raised a “toast” with strawberry jam to Honor the great Wizard.  Greetings to fellow modelers of all scales who appreciate the art and humor of one of the great masters.  
Warner



On Jul 2, 2019, at 9:27 AM, Jim Wells <enginears@...> wrote:

Hey Warner,

John was my hero, like so many I grew up a model railroader and hung on every article in MR and also Boys Life:).  Happy birthday John...

In the late 80’s my wife Christie & I had been married less than a decade when she saw me weeping for the first time.  I had just read the book for the first time, and hadn’t heard about the fire before... she knew about my modeling and my hero, and understood, but was shook by my reaction.  She’s the best:).

I may be drummed out of the group for sharing this next part, but something you said struck home, so here goes.  In the 90’s, semi-retired from doing sound in the theme parks, I turned my experience to scratch building scale sound models for my own layout.  I floundered around, making many mistakes until I stumbled into something that actually worked  (in true model railroader tradition:).  Without boring you with technobabble I can say it was pure illusion, cheating by any standard, it was magic:).  I repeated it a bunch of times to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating:), or wishful listening.  I told Christie, I have to share this with my Hobby!

This is the weird part.  I said I wanted to do the same thing in the scale aural image, that John did in the scale visual image... to push so much new dirt in the medium that people would still be trying to figure it out long after I’m gone.  I knew even if I was wildly successful that I’d never be able to contribute like John... but that was my goal.

The thing you said about wondering what John might be doing with today’s technology hit home.  I’m blessed to be working with audio editing that no one dreamed of back then, and with fellow model railroaders who have that expertise in the technology.  And am making sound, sound quietly huge, not loud, just big:).  I’ve shared it with anybody who’ll listen, and done everything I can think of to make it accessible to the average model railroader.  I know I’m no JWA, I know that.  But I know I’m inspired by the best:)!

OK, I’ll go away now and have some pancakes.  So tickled this group exists, and grateful to have stumbled into it,
jim:)
--
Have fun!
www.fantasonics.com


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

I did get a video of the trolley line Warner...  Trying to upload it to my facebook page here.    https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour

 I will see if I can't load it in here as well.   Forgive the little EMD diesel but it is the best four footed vehicle I have with modern motor for slow running.....on difficult to navigate, tight, highly elevated curves and etc.  Like a four wheel trolly.   

Randy 


Bob Burgoyne
 

Awesome, Randy! Did you include a "Golden Spike" for the stand-alone trolley line? Thanks so much for sharing your progress!

Boomer Bob

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 9:02:09 PM CDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


I did get a video of the trolley line Warner...  Trying to upload it to my facebook page here.    https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour

 I will see if I can't load it in here as well.   Forgive the little EMD diesel but it is the best four footed vehicle I have with modern motor for slow running.....on difficult to navigate, tight, highly elevated curves and etc.  Like a four wheel trolly.   

Randy 


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Well it's not nearly done but it is running, you're right......  I never thought of a golden spike     Does a plate of pancakes for the workers suffice as ceremony enough  ..?   I think it is in the GD rule book...   
  
 Ya know I did use a Diseasel in the video....  I have been watching my driveway for fat guys in sombreros. 

Randy  

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:09 PM Bob Burgoyne via Groups.Io <h0n3_bob=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Awesome, Randy! Did you include a "Golden Spike" for the stand-alone trolley line? Thanks so much for sharing your progress!

Boomer Bob

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 9:02:09 PM CDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


I did get a video of the trolley line Warner...  Trying to upload it to my facebook page here.    https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour

 I will see if I can't load it in here as well.   Forgive the little EMD diesel but it is the best four footed vehicle I have with modern motor for slow running.....on difficult to navigate, tight, highly elevated curves and etc.  Like a four wheel trolly.   

Randy 


Russell Courtenay
 

Those little diesels Run well, as you know, might be able to put a trolley body on it. 

If not, just remove the exhaust stack and add a pantograph! 
Does that make it a dis-letric?!?

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 3, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Well it's not nearly done but it is running, you're right......  I never thought of a golden spike     Does a plate of pancakes for the workers suffice as ceremony enough  ..?   I think it is in the GD rule book...   
  
 Ya know I did use a Diseasel in the video....  I have been watching my driveway for fat guys in sombreros. 

Randy  

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:09 PM Bob Burgoyne via Groups.Io <h0n3_bob=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Awesome, Randy! Did you include a "Golden Spike" for the stand-alone trolley line? Thanks so much for sharing your progress!

Boomer Bob

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 9:02:09 PM CDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


I did get a video of the trolley line Warner...  Trying to upload it to my facebook page here.    https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour

 I will see if I can't load it in here as well.   Forgive the little EMD diesel but it is the best four footed vehicle I have with modern motor for slow running.....on difficult to navigate, tight, highly elevated curves and etc.  Like a four wheel trolly.   

Randy 


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

A pantograph would be hilarious Russell.     I'll get hate mail and fan mail... !   

And yes that little engine runs like a watch... with a voltage drop it will crawl along at 5 mph and no adjustments for the hills.....Amazing really...  Plastic injection molding has become as good as brass for details and the price was outstanding.
     I love the Rio Grande paint on these....  the classiest look of the bunch in my opinion.         

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 11:36 PM Russell Courtenay via Groups.Io <walruswebtech=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Those little diesels Run well, as you know, might be able to put a trolley body on it. 

If not, just remove the exhaust stack and add a pantograph! 
Does that make it a dis-letric?!?

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 3, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Well it's not nearly done but it is running, you're right......  I never thought of a golden spike     Does a plate of pancakes for the workers suffice as ceremony enough  ..?   I think it is in the GD rule book...   
  
 Ya know I did use a Diseasel in the video....  I have been watching my driveway for fat guys in sombreros. 

Randy  

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:09 PM Bob Burgoyne via Groups.Io <h0n3_bob=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Awesome, Randy! Did you include a "Golden Spike" for the stand-alone trolley line? Thanks so much for sharing your progress!

Boomer Bob

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 9:02:09 PM CDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


I did get a video of the trolley line Warner...  Trying to upload it to my facebook page here.    https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour

 I will see if I can't load it in here as well.   Forgive the little EMD diesel but it is the best four footed vehicle I have with modern motor for slow running.....on difficult to navigate, tight, highly elevated curves and etc.  Like a four wheel trolly.   

Randy 


Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Is it possible to load a short video into a message?  the file is 291.00MB  Curious if IO allows this....   Thanks
Randy