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from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Jeffrey L Witt
 


Tom Milam
 

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Warner Swarner
 

Thanks for pointing that out.  I missed that.  Not sure that’s a “Biffy” or a Bobber.  It would fit into the Biffy (privy) cartoon/humor models era with Towers as NMRA editor.  Either way it is a cool small model for a short line local.  I would love to model that for my BS RR in large scale.  Are there any other pictures of it in the archives?  Seems like I have seen a prototype for something like that on a West Side logging line or other in the NW woods RR built on a logging disconnect?  Certainly would be on the End of a train.
Happy Day After T Day.  
Warner Swarner



On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Tom Milam via Groups.Io <ncngrr@...> wrote:

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Russell Courtenay
 

I notice it’s on the RIP track, maybe someone really ripped one and it had to be repaired! Sorry, couldn’t resist...

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Nov 29, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Tom Milam via Groups.Io <ncngrr@...> wrote:

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Ken Vandevoort
 

I have seen a C&NW porta-potty on a flat car, so there is a prototype.

Ken Vandevoort


Lowell Dorman
 

Pretty sure it shows up in the video somewhere..


On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 4:16 PM Ken Vandevoort via Groups.Io <apo09324=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have seen a C&NW porta-potty on a flat car, so there is a prototype.

Ken Vandevoort


Tom Hokel (Pine Ridge RR)
 

Thanks for sharing these, Jeff. I've never seen them before. Are there any other "new" ones in the mag we haven't seen.

I've seen the privy before. Here are a couple of photos from the Andy's MR G&D interview video.


--
Tom
<PR> PINE RIDGE RR


David Thomas
 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt wrote:
Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff
Hi Jeff
Thanks for posting those. I have that edition of Railway Modeller. It was my first ever sight of the G&D or of American model railroading so, as a teenager I was well impressed. I had thought that I'd seen all those photos elsewhere but I could well have been mistaken. The artlcle was written by a British modeller D.L.Clarke who had visited John during a business trip to California and illustrated with six photos suppled by him.

By coincidence, while looking for something else yesterday evening, I found an early artlcle by John Allen in the Model Railway News of March 1948 describing the first G&D. His photos aren't particularly well reproduced apart from the one on the front cover.  I think I've seen them in the photo archive but was struck by the night time scene with all the coaches lit up. The track plan looks to be a very early one with some differences around the engine shed, though I understand that it and the turntable never did appear in that location within the loops.
His closing remarks are interesting though.
"Being in an area in which I am practically a 'pioneer' in the hobby, though I first learnt that there was such a thing as scale model railroading late in 1944, I've had to rely on magazines and books, rather than friends, for the necessary information on how to go about building a railroad. This being my first railroad I've kept the trackwork simple"

.







David Thomas
 

I realise that the last sentence in my first paragraph was ambiguous. The photos in the 1968 Railway Modeller article were of course suppled by John Allen.

Looking more closely at the night time shot in John Allen's own March 1948 Model Railway News article, I realise that it was a set up. At that time John had only built three "old-time 54ft open end passenger cars" so they were clearly spaced out to imply a longer train. The rest of the stock he had at that time were a 4-4-0 "old time" passenger loco built with Mantua parts (the loco seen at the head of the train) an 0-4-0 Varney switcher "which doubles for a freight engine",  18 assorted freight cars, about half home (i.e. scratch) built and half kit built.and he was in the course of scratch building a 2-8-0 "old time" freight engine, four more freight cars  and a rotary snow plough "which actually is a track cleaner"  Of the six switches, five were no. 4 and one was a no. 6 


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Dave, I do have that too; your scans look better than mine!

http://gdlines.info/G&D_links.htm#MRN_1948_Mar

And most of these are published in MR and MR Handbook...but the track plan is different. Why does the turntable always show up?

Cheers,

Jeff


Jeffrey L Witt
 

Don't think so...you can check here for the full article:

http://gdlines.info/G&D_links.htm#RM_1968_Sep

BTW, there's LOTS of "new" pictures to be had from that video...it's on the list...Klambake is holding out.


David Thomas
 

Hi Jeff
I only scanned the photos (and the front cover) but at a fairly hi res. then reduced it.
The track plan he supplied to Model Railway News (which they may have redrawn as a black on white line drawing for clarity) looks to have been slightly earlier than this better known version

It has one fewer spurs off the turntable and doesn't indicate a future extension from Daphetid though he does mention that in the text. This version is also more detailed so may have been redrawn when John Allen had already scenicced part of it.

The turntable, along with the engine house, was always on his first plan so I assume, and the book seems to confirrm this, that he didn't finally decide to make that area into an industrial zone instead until he'd drawn up the plan for the first extension with the shed and the first spur of the 3ft gauge D.G. & H  in front of the original baseboard. That's the version that appeared in Meandering About the GD Line in the Jan and Feb 1950 HO Monthly though some of the photos illustrating that article are of the layout before that extension. There was a later selection of photos, but no further article by John, in the September 1948 Model Railway News,  Old G&D Engine no 8 and Her Home that does seem to show the engine house on the front extension though with no sign of the turntable and with photos taken from both sides I suspect it was actually a staged diorama placed in front of the layout for one shot. It's also possible that these photos were sent with those used to illustrate John's March 1948 article and simply held over by MRN's editor. There is no article about the shed  

In his March 1948 MRN article John talks about the oriignal 3ft 7ins x 6ft 8ins  original layout as being portable. That would have been compromised by the addition of the extra section but he was already working on the room in order to incorporate it into a larger permanent layout. What isn't clear is whether he originally intended to make the original board removable as a portable stand-alone layout. It only had one connection to the engine shed board pus whatever connections there would have been at Daphetid so that would have been entirely feasible. However,  he also adopted the very sensible policy of ensuring that as he extended the layout he still always had a working railways to operate.

In any case, looking at the plan of the first large G&D and photos of it in the book that original layout seems to have thoroughly absorbed into the larger network fairly rapidly. though it's still very apparent as a piece in the final layout.


Keith Roger Beard Trinity
 

Has anyone looked at this track-plan closely?
I took it, zoomed in, and "skewed" it straight in the 2nd picture;
http://gdlines.org/GDLines/GD_Galleries/NEW_SCANS/additionalBW/slides/planhires.html
http://gdlines.org/GDLines/GD_Goodies/NEW_SCANS/additionalBW/planfromveryearly.jpg 
--
Keith Roger-Beard Trinity, owner,  9 Cielo Vista Terrace, Monterey


David Thomas
 

Hi Keith
That's interesting. Do you have any idea whether this was drawn before John built the very first G&D or whether it was an early plan for its extension. I had an idea that his new interest in 3ft gauge railways had an effect on his planning from the first front locomotive depot extension of the original layout, so  I wonder whether this was an early idea for extending it before that interest developed. .

In his article in the March 1948 Model Railway News John does say that "The GD line is far from complete, as over a third of the area is not yet landscaped. Later this area will contain a turntable, engine house and facilities for servicing locomotives"  so he was clearly stlll working to his original plan. After listing the rolling stock and giving some technical information about electrics (standard N.M.R.A. 12V D.C.) track etc.and that the layout is portable he goes on to say "I am fortunate in now having a great deal more space available than when I planned and started this road, so a larger, more modern railroad is being planned which this one will connect on to, making this a true "branch line".

What we don't know is when he actually wrote the notes accompanying his photos but the editorial for that edition does say "In this issue will be found some very striking photographs recently sent us by Mr. John Allen, of Monterey, California, U.S.A" so I don't think the editor, John Maskelyne, sat on them for very long so we're probably looking at late 1947 or very early 1948. After complimenting John Allen's scenic effects "we very seldom see anything of this kind even attempted on English layouts" (though that was about to change largely following the work of John Ahern) he ends by adding that "his original photographic prints are of the brilliant, lustrous quality which is the anser to a block-makers prayer."