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[EXTERNAL] Re: [GandD] Tioga Pass RR Boxcar


Bob Friddle
 

Remember, most of these windows had fluorescent paper that responded to black lights in his night scenes, so either he drew on that paper or he drew on acetate and put the paper behind it. I’m sure he used rapidograph pens. These days that would not be The smart way to do it. You can draw these in a computer and print them out on acetate, she after sheet, then back them up with the paper. When I was in architecture school way back when I had a factory model with many trusses, and I built the outside frames and printed the webs on acetate to save time, it was a big success, even with the reflectivity of the acetate.
I am amazed when I look closely and I see how many variations he’s got in there, with windows open, air conditioner units, shades are different heights, that was a lot of work But it makes all the difference!
Bob


Thank you,

Bob Friddle, RA, AIA, LEED® AP Director, Facilities Design and Construction
Department of Finance & Property Services City of Minneapolis
350 S. 5th St, Room 223, Mpls, MN 55415
(Currently working from home) M 612-607-2207
Bob.friddle@... Pronouns: he, him, his


From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> on behalf of Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 12:07:12 PM
To: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [GandD] Tioga Pass RR Boxcar
 

I’m sure you are correct that he used inking pens designed for drafting.  He also inked “spokes” onto acetate disks for wagon wheels.  I’m not sure how else he could have done that.

 

These are most certainly still useful today for model railroading although there are many fine tip felt pens (in many colors) that might work for some purposes.  However, properly used inking pens can produce extremely consistent line widths.

 

For reference, here is what was typically used for many years.  On the left are typical pens with handles.  On the right is just the tip that you could attach to a handles but more likely to a compass.  The ink is held between the blades by surface tension.  You need to use these properly or the load of ink will suddenly spill out onto your drawing.  (Please don’t ask how I know this.)

 

   

 

Then along came the Koh-I-Noor “Rapidograph” pens (which is just one tradename, actually).  Compared to the ruling pens, these were a dream come true.  Rapidograph is the Cadillac of these things (cost maybe $40 each), but there are many other less expensive ones.  Available in many line widths.  You can still mess up if you don’t have clearance under your triangle or whatever you are using to guide the pen.  (Again, don’t ask me how I know.)

 

At left is an actual “Rapidograph” pen such as from Blick’s art supply.  On the right is just some image online as a good example of the sort of line width choices you can get.  You can buy just one pen, or more typically a set with perhaps 8 or so pens.  And as described, they are a metal tube with a movable tiny solid rod in the middle that moves up and down.  There are also “fineline” or “microline” or other named felt tip pins that have a similar outward appearance, but are actually felt tip style pens.

   

 

I could imagine somebody inking long lines on a large sheet of acetate and then cutting into window sizes instead of inking individual small pieces.  Or perhaps inking long lines in such a way that the acetate can be cut into a horizontal strip where the inked window mullions line up properly with the window openings.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Warner Swarner via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 9:30 AM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Tioga Pass RR Boxcar

 

Randy,

I am 95% sure the method that John used involved inking pens. These were precision pens used for drawing on either very thin plastic which was clear, or Vellum (tracing paper). They were intended for inking drawings to make blueprints.

The inking pens he used may have been older style open type pens but the more “modern” version in the 70s were very fine tubes through which the ink passed. The tubes had to be cleaned out with fine needles. They were a mess if they were not cleaned out after each use as they would clog. Somewhere in my tools and relics I have a set that I used. I could not find them looking through my current tools. The inks came in various tones and densities.  I think these pens are still available. this art form is quickly disappearing however with computer drafting.

Ink also comes in white as well as various colors.

To draw the lines, straight edges had very thin spacers to separate the edge from the vellum or plastic so the ink did not be drawn (bleed) under the edge. Preventing that bleeding affect was essential. Even today, some quality drafting tools, like triangle or non slip rulers, have that edge on them that lifts them from the paper.

I am sure you know what I’m talking about.

That is the method John used to draw those lines on plastic using ink for window panes.. Markers did not exist in that era except the big fat bold ones that are now used for graffiti.

This is probably redundant information for you, but hope it helps.

Warner (One of the dinosaurs) Swarner

By the way my Emma in G scale is over a foot long.

 

 

 



On Nov 21, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Hey Joseph, I will see if there is one that is a fair close up.  But if you look at the thousands of windows in so many of the buildings in Port and over in Divide and of the larger businesses have what must be plastic that has been graphed out with a black Marker and or a silver marker.  Some appear to be made from Black paper....  I am having a tough time finding the correct parkers to make this ll look right...

      It is amazing to me, that after so many windows done this way there was never an article about it, nor is there any mention of it by his friends and fellow operators from the day.   He seems to have had an exact size set up to cut into his wall sections for openings and ready made windows he could cut from sheets and glue inside for speed.     I have made some of these now but they do not seem quite right...And it seems very time consuming...    It seems to me that this must have been a technique anyone who was a modeler and did scratch work back in the 40,s 50,s and even the 60,s  would have used.   A "Lost Art" so to speak. 

Not many people would bother today or even back then once the ready made windows became so widespread.  These new windows had many designs and options and looked better and the plastic versions were cheap enough.    So no one other than myself who is trying to replicate with some accuracy John's style and the look of his cityscape is kind of unmistakable.   Sadly anything I learn will probably be lost again as no one will bother replicating it as I am.  There will never be a need again.       LOL 

Randy          

 

[EXTERNAL] This email originated from outside of the City of Minneapolis. Please exercise caution when opening links or attachments.


Charles Kinzer
 

Well, he didn’t use Rapidograph pens as of his 1947 Model Railroading article which says he used ruling pens.  Of course, nobody else used Rapidograph pens in 1947 either.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bob Friddle
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 2:23 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [GandD] Tioga Pass RR Boxcar

 

Remember, most of these windows had fluorescent paper that responded to black lights in his night scenes, so either he drew on that paper or he drew on acetate and put the paper behind it. I’m sure he used rapidograph pens. These days that would not be The smart way to do it. You can draw these in a computer and print them out on acetate, she after sheet, then back them up with the paper. When I was in architecture school way back when I had a factory model with many trusses, and I built the outside frames and printed the webs on acetate to save time, it was a big success, even with the reflectivity of the acetate.

I am amazed when I look closely and I see how many variations he’s got in there, with windows open, air conditioner units, shades are different heights, that was a lot of work But it makes all the difference!

Bob

 

 

Thank you,

 

Bob Friddle, RA, AIA, LEED® AP Director, Facilities Design and Construction

Department of Finance & Property Services City of Minneapolis

350 S. 5th St, Room 223, Mpls, MN 55415

(Currently working from home) M 612-607-2207

Bob.friddle@... Pronouns: he, him, his