Date   

Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

Yeah,James anything is possible with John...   But I don't think so...  The SP advertisement department was a massive group of brilliant artists and designers. This ad seems very much SP of the era.   I have already begun to see if using the bad image I have of this if it can be made using computers..  I am sure it can be... but I need to find someone to help remake it so it does not cost me a bunch.    

Options, options, options  ..  always trying to find ways around John's many tricks and pitfalls.  

Randy


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

Russell....   I figure if all else fails, perhaps we can ask to hypnotize some of you guys who are old enough to have looked at these things, in person, back in the day...…     Perhaps we can dig out those memories the hard way..... !  LOL …..!     

Randy

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:43 PM Russell Courtenay via groups.io <walruswebtech=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Randy,

I have been following this thread with great interest as an SP fan ‘but I was just a kid’, not a collector, so all the SP collectibles my pattens bought while riding the Daylight were simply played with till there was nothing left to save. 

I remember original Sunset Magazines (the magazine of The Daylight, my parents still subscribed to it into the 80’s), some kind of fragile China trinkets, cards, stationary, I think we even had a coffee set. 

I particularly grieve over the set of beautiful Daylight playing cards with scenic SP scenes on them that looked like they were printed with 1920’s color printing technology. I remember looking through them with wonderment then later when we learned how to actually PLAY card games, several were missing. 

I hate to admit it but I think their last stand was on bicycle spokes to make motor noises in the early 70’s. Hadn’t thought about those cards in years till I read this post, thanks Randy. 

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On May 26, 2020, at 11:01 AM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Yes indeed John.... and I must admit the SP advertising campaigns were really an impressive thing.  The depression era B&W image of the men with suitcases and the SP billboard in the distance has become one of those iconic images of the time.   I think Johnny Cash and perhaps even Tom Petty used that image on albums or videos....    Anyway in researching the SP had these TWO campaigns combined in many color images during 1952-53-54... (primarily) the "ITS FUN" and "Next Time Try the Train" were in many of these type ads of those years ….   This cartoon character is totally unique in any advertisement from SP........ the character seems like a character I have seen before…...  but I checked all the great Looney Tunes, Warner Brothers, Disney, Hanna Barbara etc etc cartoon characters I can find and I can not find that face, not even close, anywhere. 

Many of the old magazines that sit in boxes..  people have been cutting up for years as the dozens of various advertisements or articles all cut out, are worth far more than the magazine itself.   eBay has thousands of ad's from the SP right now running... but mixed in I find interesting "Mailers" or even "Children's Menus", and so many "brochures" and they all seem to have enough value that they are left uncut and sold complete.   I am guessing this little character is hidden in one of those interesting brochures printed by the SP back in around 1953....
     For example; there is a brochure of hand drawn characters in one of the passenger train tourist foldouts/booklets called "Wonderful Way West" it is one of these small booklets of several pages or even the photographic paper covered albums of scenes along the SP where pages would not be cut out... and large enough that every page would not be shown in an auction...  My guess is this type of printing is where this little treasure is hidden and why I have not found it yet.  
I could go broke buying all these collectable items trying to find this....so this is where I hope one of the guys in here might be an SP fan... and perhaps in a small collection of ephemera they might take a look and discover this character and his train...   If I just have the year and the name of the booklet I am sure I can eventually find one right on eBay.   

So thanks for the help gentlemen and keep your eyes open at train shows for me.   This seems it would be an interesting search for anyone who is a railroad fan or model railroad fan or G&D fan etc.    Who does not love a good mystery. 
  
John has sent us off on an egg hunt.   

Randy   

     

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:26 PM John Gallup <johngallup@...> wrote:
An image search produces some interesting results, including a famous Dorothea Lange photo; apparently "Next Time Try The Train" was an ongoing campaign.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=next+time+try+the+train+fun&t=opera&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F40%2F22%2F3d%2F40223d373839375b75a7b5364e1c4ca1.jpg&ia=images


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

James Little
 

Randy;
Have you thought of the possibility that maybe, just maybe, John made up the image?  He could have taken images from a couple of ads and then photographed them into one image.  Remember the time he photographed a pencil and one of his locos to make a fried think he was actually building in 1/400th scale ?   After all John was a photographer, and a good one.  
I remember reading (possibly in Linn Wescott's book) that John made his heralds and lettering through photography and tinning down the paper to make it appear as decals.  That fact plus his artistic capabilities would make his ability to create the billboard well within his abilities.

Just a thought......
Jim Little, MMR


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Russell Courtenay
 

Do you have any photos? 

I know I have very few photos of my old train layouts, even though I was known as ‘the archivist’ and always had my camera, tape recorder or movie camera out to everyone’s distain....

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On May 26, 2020, at 11:55 AM, John Hagen via groups.io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

Russell.

The video of Gregory is vey neat. Thanks for posting.

Reminds me that I also used a circle of the sharp radius Atlas track around the Christmas tree. It sat atop a table but the Atlas track allowed me to run my Atlas F9 and a couple of cars. More impressive than HO or Lionel.

I have noticed a few typos in my explanation of the table. The center section was 4 ft and I used 2 sets of legs.

There are others but these would be the most confusing.

John Hagen

 

From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> On Behalf Of Russell Courtenay via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 12:30 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

That is great John!

 

The larger gauges are great for kids, I was thinking of building a G scale timesaver with LGB track but even used those switches run $50 each!

 

Gets me thinking: I have about 10 of those old O scale Atlas switches and a couple Plymouth’s, I ought to try that. And the regearing is a great idea! Here is one of the last times I ran mine, Gregory here is now 15, six feet tall and knows it all....

 

Russell Courtenay

Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 






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Re: Timesaver in O Scale

John Hagen
 

Russell.

The video of Gregory is vey neat. Thanks for posting.

Reminds me that I also used a circle of the sharp radius Atlas track around the Christmas tree. It sat atop a table but the Atlas track allowed me to run my Atlas F9 and a couple of cars. More impressive than HO or Lionel.

I have noticed a few typos in my explanation of the table. The center section was 4 ft and I used 2 sets of legs.

There are others but these would be the most confusing.

John Hagen

 

From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> On Behalf Of Russell Courtenay via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 12:30 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

That is great John!

 

The larger gauges are great for kids, I was thinking of building a G scale timesaver with LGB track but even used those switches run $50 each!

 

Gets me thinking: I have about 10 of those old O scale Atlas switches and a couple Plymouth’s, I ought to try that. And the regearing is a great idea! Here is one of the last times I ran mine, Gregory here is now 15, six feet tall and knows it all....

 

Russell Courtenay

Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 






Groups.io Links:

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_._,_._,_


--
John Hagen


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Russell Courtenay
 

Randy,

I have been following this thread with great interest as an SP fan ‘but I was just a kid’, not a collector, so all the SP collectibles my pattens bought while riding the Daylight were simply played with till there was nothing left to save. 

I remember original Sunset Magazines (the magazine of The Daylight, my parents still subscribed to it into the 80’s), some kind of fragile China trinkets, cards, stationary, I think we even had a coffee set. 

I particularly grieve over the set of beautiful Daylight playing cards with scenic SP scenes on them that looked like they were printed with 1920’s color printing technology. I remember looking through them with wonderment then later when we learned how to actually PLAY card games, several were missing. 

I hate to admit it but I think their last stand was on bicycle spokes to make motor noises in the early 70’s. Hadn’t thought about those cards in years till I read this post, thanks Randy. 

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On May 26, 2020, at 11:01 AM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Yes indeed John.... and I must admit the SP advertising campaigns were really an impressive thing.  The depression era B&W image of the men with suitcases and the SP billboard in the distance has become one of those iconic images of the time.   I think Johnny Cash and perhaps even Tom Petty used that image on albums or videos....    Anyway in researching the SP had these TWO campaigns combined in many color images during 1952-53-54... (primarily) the "ITS FUN" and "Next Time Try the Train" were in many of these type ads of those years ….   This cartoon character is totally unique in any advertisement from SP........ the character seems like a character I have seen before…...  but I checked all the great Looney Tunes, Warner Brothers, Disney, Hanna Barbara etc etc cartoon characters I can find and I can not find that face, not even close, anywhere. 

Many of the old magazines that sit in boxes..  people have been cutting up for years as the dozens of various advertisements or articles all cut out, are worth far more than the magazine itself.   eBay has thousands of ad's from the SP right now running... but mixed in I find interesting "Mailers" or even "Children's Menus", and so many "brochures" and they all seem to have enough value that they are left uncut and sold complete.   I am guessing this little character is hidden in one of those interesting brochures printed by the SP back in around 1953....
     For example; there is a brochure of hand drawn characters in one of the passenger train tourist foldouts/booklets called "Wonderful Way West" it is one of these small booklets of several pages or even the photographic paper covered albums of scenes along the SP where pages would not be cut out... and large enough that every page would not be shown in an auction...  My guess is this type of printing is where this little treasure is hidden and why I have not found it yet.  
I could go broke buying all these collectable items trying to find this....so this is where I hope one of the guys in here might be an SP fan... and perhaps in a small collection of ephemera they might take a look and discover this character and his train...   If I just have the year and the name of the booklet I am sure I can eventually find one right on eBay.   

So thanks for the help gentlemen and keep your eyes open at train shows for me.   This seems it would be an interesting search for anyone who is a railroad fan or model railroad fan or G&D fan etc.    Who does not love a good mystery. 
  
John has sent us off on an egg hunt.   

Randy   

     

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:26 PM John Gallup <johngallup@...> wrote:
An image search produces some interesting results, including a famous Dorothea Lange photo; apparently "Next Time Try The Train" was an ongoing campaign.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=next+time+try+the+train+fun&t=opera&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F40%2F22%2F3d%2F40223d373839375b75a7b5364e1c4ca1.jpg&ia=images


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Russell Courtenay
 

That is great John!

The larger gauges are great for kids, I was thinking of building a G scale timesaver with LGB track but even used those switches run $50 each!

Gets me thinking: I have about 10 of those old O scale Atlas switches and a couple Plymouth’s, I ought to try that. And the regearing is a great idea! Here is one of the last times I ran mine, Gregory here is now 15, six feet tall and knows it all....

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On May 26, 2020, at 10:51 AM, John Hagen via groups.io <sprinthag@...> wrote:

I had an O scale timesaver for several years. I used to run a switching contest at Trainfest from 1982 well into the 90’s. Problem was that as the guys who competed every year grew older, most of the operators were children, incapable of actually competing.

So, I decided to build the O scale version using Atlas flex track and the old, 70’s era sorta sharp turnouts. That was much easier for the youngsters to operate and I was able to limit the original HO version for more advance operators.

Worked great and turned out to be my start in O scale.

Being of very limited resources at the time (just like I still am), I used mostly Atlas cars and their 0-6-0 Plymouth industrial switcher for power. As a Timesaver should be operated with a reset, low speed throttle, I had to build a reduction gearbox to allow the Plymouth to not lose speed when moving the cars. I used gears taken out of Athearn 4 wheel HO diesel trucks and it only raised the motor up about 1/8 to 3/16th of an inch, which worked with no problem.

In addition to the two Timesavers, I also ran the WISE Division of the NMRA’s (producers of Trainfest) test track. As my sons also grew older and started their own families, they were no long able to be with for the full shows and I ended up doing it all myself.

After I stopped doing the Trainfest show, and when I some severe financial setbacks, I sold a lot of trains, including much of my meager O scale  holdings, including the Timesaver. The purchaser had no interest it other than the track so he disassembled it.

I still do some O scale, locos and some rolling stock, although I do not have a layout. I do belong to The Model Railroad Club of Milwaukee, Inc. so I can operate at times.

I still have  the Plymouth and it still runs very well with no appreciable wear to the reduction gears.

Because of those old Atlas turnouts, the O scale version was not all that much longer then the HO. I used some 2 ft by 4 ft Masonite shelves I had gotten for free somewhere, used one 2 ft piece and 2 much shorter pieces. I used folding table legs, 20 sets as the shorter end pieces were hinged to the center section. To disassemble the “module” (today’s lexicon) for moving/storing, I simply pulled the hinge pins out. Due to the thick Masonite and the overly heavy folding legs, it weighed a ton. And, took more space then I had in my very small house that it was difficult to set up for any period of time.

All that set aside, it was just as much fun to ruin as it’s smaller cousin, maybe even more so. Any switcher could have been used if had the money to buy them (I now have 2 All Nation NW2’s, but no Timesaver!).

The HO Timesaver is 72” long so I’m estimating the 88” of the Lionel version would be about right. And, it did not have to 24” wide, that was the width of the shelving so that is how I left it.

A true Timesaver is a fun of fun, interesting and challenging o operate. By true I mean the lengths of the sidings and run around must be per John Allen’s original design. It’s those limitations that make it what it is.

John Hagen

 

From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Vandevoort via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 10:35 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

Coy's Timesaver measures 16 in. x 88 in.  It is unusual to see anything 3-rail in the NMRA Magazine.  He has shown that the Timesaver can be built in any scale and it is a shot in the arm for keeping John Allen's memory alive.  This article will probably be read by modelers that have never heard of the Timesaver and will be checking it out.

Ken Vandevoort


--
John Hagen


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

John Hagen
 

I had an O scale timesaver for several years. I used to run a switching contest at Trainfest from 1982 well into the 90’s. Problem was that as the guys who competed every year grew older, most of the operators were children, incapable of actually competing.

So, I decided to build the O scale version using Atlas flex track and the old, 70’s era sorta sharp turnouts. That was much easier for the youngsters to operate and I was able to limit the original HO version for more advance operators.

Worked great and turned out to be my start in O scale.

Being of very limited resources at the time (just like I still am), I used mostly Atlas cars and their 0-6-0 Plymouth industrial switcher for power. As a Timesaver should be operated with a reset, low speed throttle, I had to build a reduction gearbox to allow the Plymouth to not lose speed when moving the cars. I used gears taken out of Athearn 4 wheel HO diesel trucks and it only raised the motor up about 1/8 to 3/16th of an inch, which worked with no problem.

In addition to the two Timesavers, I also ran the WISE Division of the NMRA’s (producers of Trainfest) test track. As my sons also grew older and started their own families, they were no long able to be with for the full shows and I ended up doing it all myself.

After I stopped doing the Trainfest show, and when I some severe financial setbacks, I sold a lot of trains, including much of my meager O scale  holdings, including the Timesaver. The purchaser had no interest it other than the track so he disassembled it.

I still do some O scale, locos and some rolling stock, although I do not have a layout. I do belong to The Model Railroad Club of Milwaukee, Inc. so I can operate at times.

I still have  the Plymouth and it still runs very well with no appreciable wear to the reduction gears.

Because of those old Atlas turnouts, the O scale version was not all that much longer then the HO. I used some 2 ft by 4 ft Masonite shelves I had gotten for free somewhere, used one 2 ft piece and 2 much shorter pieces. I used folding table legs, 20 sets as the shorter end pieces were hinged to the center section. To disassemble the “module” (today’s lexicon) for moving/storing, I simply pulled the hinge pins out. Due to the thick Masonite and the overly heavy folding legs, it weighed a ton. And, took more space then I had in my very small house that it was difficult to set up for any period of time.

All that set aside, it was just as much fun to ruin as it’s smaller cousin, maybe even more so. Any switcher could have been used if had the money to buy them (I now have 2 All Nation NW2’s, but no Timesaver!).

The HO Timesaver is 72” long so I’m estimating the 88” of the Lionel version would be about right. And, it did not have to 24” wide, that was the width of the shelving so that is how I left it.

A true Timesaver is a fun of fun, interesting and challenging o operate. By true I mean the lengths of the sidings and run around must be per John Allen’s original design. It’s those limitations that make it what it is.

John Hagen

 

From: GandD@groups.io <GandD@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Vandevoort via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 10:35 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

Coy's Timesaver measures 16 in. x 88 in.  It is unusual to see anything 3-rail in the NMRA Magazine.  He has shown that the Timesaver can be built in any scale and it is a shot in the arm for keeping John Allen's memory alive.  This article will probably be read by modelers that have never heard of the Timesaver and will be checking it out.

Ken Vandevoort


--
John Hagen


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Kurt Youngmann
 

The irony in this photo is that it dates from the midst of the depression and the chances that the 2 guys shown walking would ever be able to afford to take the train are close to zero. Unless it was a staged picture - a distinct possibility.

Kurt Youngmann

On May 26, 2020, at 11:26 AM, John Gallup <johngallup@...> wrote:

An image search produces some interesting results, including a famous Dorothea Lange photo; apparently "Next Time Try The Train" was an ongoing campaign.



***

“The kind of fraud which consists in daring to proclaim the truth while mixing it with a large share of lies that falsify it, is more widespread than is generally thought.”

—Marcel Proust, Remembrance of Things Past


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

Yes indeed John.... and I must admit the SP advertising campaigns were really an impressive thing.  The depression era B&W image of the men with suitcases and the SP billboard in the distance has become one of those iconic images of the time.   I think Johnny Cash and perhaps even Tom Petty used that image on albums or videos....    Anyway in researching the SP had these TWO campaigns combined in many color images during 1952-53-54... (primarily) the "ITS FUN" and "Next Time Try the Train" were in many of these type ads of those years ….   This cartoon character is totally unique in any advertisement from SP........ the character seems like a character I have seen before…...  but I checked all the great Looney Tunes, Warner Brothers, Disney, Hanna Barbara etc etc cartoon characters I can find and I can not find that face, not even close, anywhere. 

Many of the old magazines that sit in boxes..  people have been cutting up for years as the dozens of various advertisements or articles all cut out, are worth far more than the magazine itself.   eBay has thousands of ad's from the SP right now running... but mixed in I find interesting "Mailers" or even "Children's Menus", and so many "brochures" and they all seem to have enough value that they are left uncut and sold complete.   I am guessing this little character is hidden in one of those interesting brochures printed by the SP back in around 1953....
     For example; there is a brochure of hand drawn characters in one of the passenger train tourist foldouts/booklets called "Wonderful Way West" it is one of these small booklets of several pages or even the photographic paper covered albums of scenes along the SP where pages would not be cut out... and large enough that every page would not be shown in an auction...  My guess is this type of printing is where this little treasure is hidden and why I have not found it yet.  
I could go broke buying all these collectable items trying to find this....so this is where I hope one of the guys in here might be an SP fan... and perhaps in a small collection of ephemera they might take a look and discover this character and his train...   If I just have the year and the name of the booklet I am sure I can eventually find one right on eBay.   

So thanks for the help gentlemen and keep your eyes open at train shows for me.   This seems it would be an interesting search for anyone who is a railroad fan or model railroad fan or G&D fan etc.    Who does not love a good mystery. 
  
John has sent us off on an egg hunt.   

Randy   

     

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:26 PM John Gallup <johngallup@...> wrote:
An image search produces some interesting results, including a famous Dorothea Lange photo; apparently "Next Time Try The Train" was an ongoing campaign.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=next+time+try+the+train+fun&t=opera&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F40%2F22%2F3d%2F40223d373839375b75a7b5364e1c4ca1.jpg&ia=images


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

John Gallup
 

An image search produces some interesting results, including a famous Dorothea Lange photo; apparently "Next Time Try The Train" was an ongoing campaign.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=next+time+try+the+train+fun&t=opera&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F40%2F22%2F3d%2F40223d373839375b75a7b5364e1c4ca1.jpg&ia=images


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

Good point.  But the odds of contacting anyone in the company that has a clue concerning 1950's advertising is so low I am not sure it is worth the effort.  My experience ( let me tall ya I actually have gotten quite a lot of it through the years) has been that since all companies... (everywhere.. and in every type of business) converted to computers.  The archived materials are kept in boxes in storage....sometimes for several years or even decades but at some point they move or for whatever reason they decide to dump all the material older than 25 years and thousands of boxes of photographs and historically valuable documents are lost each day. IN this case it would be items closer to 75 years old...  If you see my point...  If I lived near any of these companies there is a slight chance they would allow me in to research through old boxes myself.  But even that is a problem with insurance and all the hassles so many people before me might have given these companies.   Times have changed David.   Very sad... and very difficult for historians.   
  And when you call these days the young person answering the phones has no clue where to send you so you are given to the sales department or in this case advertising department..  Some person (also usually younger and busy keeping their job) answers and they do not have time to check on things even if they cared.  

But I will take a look at this avenue....   Historians are used to dogged pursuits.... I bet John is laughing....

Randy


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:39 AM David via groups.io <hi61izq=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Randy,

I was wondering if the SP historical group might know the various advertising agencies the SP worked with during that era. Some of them might still be around or have been archived somewhere. That might give you a direction on the company that produced the artwork. Just thinking out loud...

David (Dry Gulch & Western)
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020, 06:15:56 AM PDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


Hey Warner and yes sir the SP History and Tech society I have spoken with.  They are stumped.  And so you know....the quality of the image is high I am sure.   My terrible and totally pixilated example is pulled right off a G&D photo... enlarged many times and cropped, so it looks poor but in reality it is very good. 

I can't even imagine seeing John's layout in person..   the layers and layers of details and the visual explosion he created is like going to the MET in NY...  ya just can't take it all in at one time and you see new things that you missed before because there is so much to see,  it is all a bit overwhelming.

Viewing photgrpahs as many of the rest of us have done for so long things stand out as we have had a thousand views of Johns place and for me that little Billboard caught my curiosity the first second I saw those pictures of West Divide.    

Randy   
    

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:42 PM Warner Swarner via groups.io <wbswarner=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Re: SP ad with train,  Randy.
I love a good mystery.  There is a SP Historical & Technical society that might help? I’ll bet someone in that group, (they have a Facebook site) Will be able to zero in on the original.  Could have been a magazine ad.  My hunch would be something like Saturday Evening Post, if it was a national level ad, or it was More probably a California billboard or small West coast promotional Media ad.  (It certainly does Not look like a National Geographic quality ad.  There were many transcontinental ads in Natl Geo mags during that era, but they were more “scenery“ view type ads.)
Just a footnote.  I was there and took photos that show this, but of all the features that stood out, I never “noticed” this sign while there.  His realistic scenery and compressed structures completely dominated My awareness, in a harmonious art-driven (with humor) manner.  It is funny to see things I “saw“ but didn’t “see” while there.  The G&D was a visual “Disneyland” experience.  
Just hunches About the SP advertisement. .  
Warner Swarner



On May 25, 2020, at 5:56 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

   This is a Billboard that John had mounted ..above ..and just behind... the tracks over Andy's Drug Store.   Like so many of the things John made or used he had a great eye for model worthy items and in this case he found an advertisement that despite my diligent searching I have yet to find.    And yes please know I am familiar as a research historian, so I have contacted any of the museums and groups I can find concerning the SP or Railroad Advertising even cartoon characters groups......... so far I have generated lots of interest but produced nothng more than a dumbfounded group of historians who enjoy a mystery just like me.
    Now eBay is a great reference source,  it is incredible what comes up through private sales... but even with all the tens of thousands of ESPEE magazine advertisements for sale and various brochures, menus, pocket calendars, and ephemera from the Southern Pacific I have searched through, I still can not seem to find this exact image.    

The search has become a challenge from John at this point.   LOL   I figure it is time to ask for help again.  

Anyway you can find this cute little billboard in the photographs taken by Warner Swarner and Gary Wernick from October of 1971.    I can tell you the little engineer is not a kid... but is actually a cartoon character and appears to be an older (mad scientist looking) man with buggy eyes and blond hair... dressed in the striped overalls and hat and compete with rag in the back pocket and an oil can in his hand eyeballing a toy train on the floor.  
  I also have found that the "ITS FUN" and the "NEXT TIME TRY THE TRAIN" advertisement campaigns do seem to reach a zenith in about 1953...… they ran from about1951.... to...….1955.  It seems this ad must be from that time.   But this is just a good guess...  The only other guess I have now, after all the searching I have done, is this little cartoon must be in some Southern Pacific collectable paper item that no one ever cuts up to sell (... or at least the seller never opens up to every page so I can see what might be in it...)     Anyway I am doing my very best to bring John's layout to life.  This little billboard is part of the work I trying to do.  Please keep an eye open for this...   It really is a fantastic little ad for a model railroad...  It caught my eye from the first second I looked at Warner's photo's a few years ago.  Thanks for helping. 
   Once again, John has me completely stumped...

Randy     
    
<SP Advertisement.jpg>


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

David
 

Randy,

I was wondering if the SP historical group might know the various advertising agencies the SP worked with during that era. Some of them might still be around or have been archived somewhere. That might give you a direction on the company that produced the artwork. Just thinking out loud...

David (Dry Gulch & Western)

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020, 06:15:56 AM PDT, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:


Hey Warner and yes sir the SP History and Tech society I have spoken with.  They are stumped.  And so you know....the quality of the image is high I am sure.   My terrible and totally pixilated example is pulled right off a G&D photo... enlarged many times and cropped, so it looks poor but in reality it is very good. 

I can't even imagine seeing John's layout in person..   the layers and layers of details and the visual explosion he created is like going to the MET in NY...  ya just can't take it all in at one time and you see new things that you missed before because there is so much to see,  it is all a bit overwhelming.

Viewing photgrpahs as many of the rest of us have done for so long things stand out as we have had a thousand views of Johns place and for me that little Billboard caught my curiosity the first second I saw those pictures of West Divide.    

Randy   
    

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:42 PM Warner Swarner via groups.io <wbswarner=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Re: SP ad with train,  Randy.
I love a good mystery.  There is a SP Historical & Technical society that might help? I’ll bet someone in that group, (they have a Facebook site) Will be able to zero in on the original.  Could have been a magazine ad.  My hunch would be something like Saturday Evening Post, if it was a national level ad, or it was More probably a California billboard or small West coast promotional Media ad.  (It certainly does Not look like a National Geographic quality ad.  There were many transcontinental ads in Natl Geo mags during that era, but they were more “scenery“ view type ads.)
Just a footnote.  I was there and took photos that show this, but of all the features that stood out, I never “noticed” this sign while there.  His realistic scenery and compressed structures completely dominated My awareness, in a harmonious art-driven (with humor) manner.  It is funny to see things I “saw“ but didn’t “see” while there.  The G&D was a visual “Disneyland” experience.  
Just hunches About the SP advertisement. .  
Warner Swarner



On May 25, 2020, at 5:56 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

   This is a Billboard that John had mounted ..above ..and just behind... the tracks over Andy's Drug Store.   Like so many of the things John made or used he had a great eye for model worthy items and in this case he found an advertisement that despite my diligent searching I have yet to find.    And yes please know I am familiar as a research historian, so I have contacted any of the museums and groups I can find concerning the SP or Railroad Advertising even cartoon characters groups......... so far I have generated lots of interest but produced nothng more than a dumbfounded group of historians who enjoy a mystery just like me.
    Now eBay is a great reference source,  it is incredible what comes up through private sales... but even with all the tens of thousands of ESPEE magazine advertisements for sale and various brochures, menus, pocket calendars, and ephemera from the Southern Pacific I have searched through, I still can not seem to find this exact image.    

The search has become a challenge from John at this point.   LOL   I figure it is time to ask for help again.  

Anyway you can find this cute little billboard in the photographs taken by Warner Swarner and Gary Wernick from October of 1971.    I can tell you the little engineer is not a kid... but is actually a cartoon character and appears to be an older (mad scientist looking) man with buggy eyes and blond hair... dressed in the striped overalls and hat and compete with rag in the back pocket and an oil can in his hand eyeballing a toy train on the floor.  
  I also have found that the "ITS FUN" and the "NEXT TIME TRY THE TRAIN" advertisement campaigns do seem to reach a zenith in about 1953...… they ran from about1951.... to...….1955.  It seems this ad must be from that time.   But this is just a good guess...  The only other guess I have now, after all the searching I have done, is this little cartoon must be in some Southern Pacific collectable paper item that no one ever cuts up to sell (... or at least the seller never opens up to every page so I can see what might be in it...)     Anyway I am doing my very best to bring John's layout to life.  This little billboard is part of the work I trying to do.  Please keep an eye open for this...   It really is a fantastic little ad for a model railroad...  It caught my eye from the first second I looked at Warner's photo's a few years ago.  Thanks for helping. 
   Once again, John has me completely stumped...

Randy     
    
<SP Advertisement.jpg>


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

Hey Warner and yes sir the SP History and Tech society I have spoken with.  They are stumped.  And so you know....the quality of the image is high I am sure.   My terrible and totally pixilated example is pulled right off a G&D photo... enlarged many times and cropped, so it looks poor but in reality it is very good. 

I can't even imagine seeing John's layout in person..   the layers and layers of details and the visual explosion he created is like going to the MET in NY...  ya just can't take it all in at one time and you see new things that you missed before because there is so much to see,  it is all a bit overwhelming.

Viewing photgrpahs as many of the rest of us have done for so long things stand out as we have had a thousand views of Johns place and for me that little Billboard caught my curiosity the first second I saw those pictures of West Divide.    

Randy   
    

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:42 PM Warner Swarner via groups.io <wbswarner=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Re: SP ad with train,  Randy.
I love a good mystery.  There is a SP Historical & Technical society that might help? I’ll bet someone in that group, (they have a Facebook site) Will be able to zero in on the original.  Could have been a magazine ad.  My hunch would be something like Saturday Evening Post, if it was a national level ad, or it was More probably a California billboard or small West coast promotional Media ad.  (It certainly does Not look like a National Geographic quality ad.  There were many transcontinental ads in Natl Geo mags during that era, but they were more “scenery“ view type ads.)
Just a footnote.  I was there and took photos that show this, but of all the features that stood out, I never “noticed” this sign while there.  His realistic scenery and compressed structures completely dominated My awareness, in a harmonious art-driven (with humor) manner.  It is funny to see things I “saw“ but didn’t “see” while there.  The G&D was a visual “Disneyland” experience.  
Just hunches About the SP advertisement. .  
Warner Swarner



On May 25, 2020, at 5:56 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

   This is a Billboard that John had mounted ..above ..and just behind... the tracks over Andy's Drug Store.   Like so many of the things John made or used he had a great eye for model worthy items and in this case he found an advertisement that despite my diligent searching I have yet to find.    And yes please know I am familiar as a research historian, so I have contacted any of the museums and groups I can find concerning the SP or Railroad Advertising even cartoon characters groups......... so far I have generated lots of interest but produced nothng more than a dumbfounded group of historians who enjoy a mystery just like me.
    Now eBay is a great reference source,  it is incredible what comes up through private sales... but even with all the tens of thousands of ESPEE magazine advertisements for sale and various brochures, menus, pocket calendars, and ephemera from the Southern Pacific I have searched through, I still can not seem to find this exact image.    

The search has become a challenge from John at this point.   LOL   I figure it is time to ask for help again.  

Anyway you can find this cute little billboard in the photographs taken by Warner Swarner and Gary Wernick from October of 1971.    I can tell you the little engineer is not a kid... but is actually a cartoon character and appears to be an older (mad scientist looking) man with buggy eyes and blond hair... dressed in the striped overalls and hat and compete with rag in the back pocket and an oil can in his hand eyeballing a toy train on the floor.  
  I also have found that the "ITS FUN" and the "NEXT TIME TRY THE TRAIN" advertisement campaigns do seem to reach a zenith in about 1953...… they ran from about1951.... to...….1955.  It seems this ad must be from that time.   But this is just a good guess...  The only other guess I have now, after all the searching I have done, is this little cartoon must be in some Southern Pacific collectable paper item that no one ever cuts up to sell (... or at least the seller never opens up to every page so I can see what might be in it...)     Anyway I am doing my very best to bring John's layout to life.  This little billboard is part of the work I trying to do.  Please keep an eye open for this...   It really is a fantastic little ad for a model railroad...  It caught my eye from the first second I looked at Warner's photo's a few years ago.  Thanks for helping. 
   Once again, John has me completely stumped...

Randy     
    
<SP Advertisement.jpg>


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Ken Vandevoort
 

Coy's Timesaver measures 16 in. x 88 in.  It is unusual to see anything 3-rail in the NMRA Magazine.  He has shown that the Timesaver can be built in any scale and it is a shot in the arm for keeping John Allen's memory alive.  This article will probably be read by modelers that have never heard of the Timesaver and will be checking it out.

Ken Vandevoort


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Rick Jones
 

On 5/25/2020 7:09 PM, Russell Courtenay via groups.io wrote:
I have been I touch with Mr. Coy about his timesaver and saved a photo some time ago, looks like a nice implementation. I don’t like 3-rail but love the size of my O scale stuff, and am very appreciative of the volume production the 3-rail crowd brings to The King Of Scales. I am now working on converting mine to Proto:48 ‘finescale’...
Now you guys have got me imagining building one in On30. I've always thought those Forneys that Bachmann put out looked really interesting, but I just didn't want to get into another scale.

--

Rick Jones

Every time I hear the dirty word "exercise", I wash my mouth out
with chocolate.


Re: Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Warner Swarner
 

Re: SP ad with train,  Randy.
I love a good mystery.  There is a SP Historical & Technical society that might help? I’ll bet someone in that group, (they have a Facebook site) Will be able to zero in on the original.  Could have been a magazine ad.  My hunch would be something like Saturday Evening Post, if it was a national level ad, or it was More probably a California billboard or small West coast promotional Media ad.  (It certainly does Not look like a National Geographic quality ad.  There were many transcontinental ads in Natl Geo mags during that era, but they were more “scenery“ view type ads.)
Just a footnote.  I was there and took photos that show this, but of all the features that stood out, I never “noticed” this sign while there.  His realistic scenery and compressed structures completely dominated My awareness, in a harmonious art-driven (with humor) manner.  It is funny to see things I “saw“ but didn’t “see” while there.  The G&D was a visual “Disneyland” experience.  
Just hunches About the SP advertisement. .  
Warner Swarner



On May 25, 2020, at 5:56 PM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

   This is a Billboard that John had mounted ..above ..and just behind... the tracks over Andy's Drug Store.   Like so many of the things John made or used he had a great eye for model worthy items and in this case he found an advertisement that despite my diligent searching I have yet to find.    And yes please know I am familiar as a research historian, so I have contacted any of the museums and groups I can find concerning the SP or Railroad Advertising even cartoon characters groups......... so far I have generated lots of interest but produced nothng more than a dumbfounded group of historians who enjoy a mystery just like me.
    Now eBay is a great reference source,  it is incredible what comes up through private sales... but even with all the tens of thousands of ESPEE magazine advertisements for sale and various brochures, menus, pocket calendars, and ephemera from the Southern Pacific I have searched through, I still can not seem to find this exact image.    

The search has become a challenge from John at this point.   LOL   I figure it is time to ask for help again.  

Anyway you can find this cute little billboard in the photographs taken by Warner Swarner and Gary Wernick from October of 1971.    I can tell you the little engineer is not a kid... but is actually a cartoon character and appears to be an older (mad scientist looking) man with buggy eyes and blond hair... dressed in the striped overalls and hat and compete with rag in the back pocket and an oil can in his hand eyeballing a toy train on the floor.  
  I also have found that the "ITS FUN" and the "NEXT TIME TRY THE TRAIN" advertisement campaigns do seem to reach a zenith in about 1953...… they ran from about1951.... to...….1955.  It seems this ad must be from that time.   But this is just a good guess...  The only other guess I have now, after all the searching I have done, is this little cartoon must be in some Southern Pacific collectable paper item that no one ever cuts up to sell (... or at least the seller never opens up to every page so I can see what might be in it...)     Anyway I am doing my very best to bring John's layout to life.  This little billboard is part of the work I trying to do.  Please keep an eye open for this...   It really is a fantastic little ad for a model railroad...  It caught my eye from the first second I looked at Warner's photo's a few years ago.  Thanks for helping. 
   Once again, John has me completely stumped...

Randy     
    
<SP Advertisement.jpg>


Still searching for this SP advertisement image

Randy Lee Decker
 

   This is a Billboard that John had mounted ..above ..and just behind... the tracks over Andy's Drug Store.   Like so many of the things John made or used he had a great eye for model worthy items and in this case he found an advertisement that despite my diligent searching I have yet to find.    And yes please know I am familiar as a research historian, so I have contacted any of the museums and groups I can find concerning the SP or Railroad Advertising even cartoon characters groups......... so far I have generated lots of interest but produced nothng more than a dumbfounded group of historians who enjoy a mystery just like me.
    Now eBay is a great reference source,  it is incredible what comes up through private sales... but even with all the tens of thousands of ESPEE magazine advertisements for sale and various brochures, menus, pocket calendars, and ephemera from the Southern Pacific I have searched through, I still can not seem to find this exact image.    

The search has become a challenge from John at this point.   LOL   I figure it is time to ask for help again.  

Anyway you can find this cute little billboard in the photographs taken by Warner Swarner and Gary Wernick from October of 1971.    I can tell you the little engineer is not a kid... but is actually a cartoon character and appears to be an older (mad scientist looking) man with buggy eyes and blond hair... dressed in the striped overalls and hat and compete with rag in the back pocket and an oil can in his hand eyeballing a toy train on the floor.  
  I also have found that the "ITS FUN" and the "NEXT TIME TRY THE TRAIN" advertisement campaigns do seem to reach a zenith in about 1953...… they ran from about1951.... to...….1955.  It seems this ad must be from that time.   But this is just a good guess...  The only other guess I have now, after all the searching I have done, is this little cartoon must be in some Southern Pacific collectable paper item that no one ever cuts up to sell (... or at least the seller never opens up to every page so I can see what might be in it...)     Anyway I am doing my very best to bring John's layout to life.  This little billboard is part of the work I trying to do.  Please keep an eye open for this...   It really is a fantastic little ad for a model railroad...  It caught my eye from the first second I looked at Warner's photo's a few years ago.  Thanks for helping. 
   Once again, John has me completely stumped...

Randy     
    


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Russell Courtenay
 

I have been I touch with Mr. Coy about his timesaver and saved a photo some time ago, looks like a nice implementation. I don’t like 3-rail but love the size of my O scale stuff, and am very appreciative of the volume production the 3-rail crowd brings to The King Of Scales. I am now working on converting mine to Proto:48 ‘finescale’...

I just noticed he has a couple ore jimmies here, I’ve wanted some since I was a kid and finally got 4 this month. 

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 

image1.jpeg

On May 25, 2020, at 5:44 PM, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:

I had posted last year about an article in the April/May 2019 O Gauge Railroading magazine about a O Gauge 3-Rail Timesaver.  (In the 3-Rail world, it is usually called “O Gauge” and not “O Scale”.)  It used Lionel FasTrack.

 

This one in the NMRA magazine using Ross Custom switches and, I presume, GarGraves track otherwise, is certainly more realistic looking.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ken Vandevoort via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:47 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

The June, 2020 issue of NMRA Magazine features an article by John Robert Coy about how he built a Timesaver in O Scale.  It is actually 3-rail O Scale.  It looks great.

Ken Vandevoort

 


Re: Timesaver in O Scale

Charles Kinzer
 

I had posted last year about an article in the April/May 2019 O Gauge Railroading magazine about a O Gauge 3-Rail Timesaver.  (In the 3-Rail world, it is usually called “O Gauge” and not “O Scale”.)  It used Lionel FasTrack.

 

This one in the NMRA magazine using Ross Custom switches and, I presume, GarGraves track otherwise, is certainly more realistic looking.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ken Vandevoort via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:47 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: [GandD] Timesaver in O Scale

 

The June, 2020 issue of NMRA Magazine features an article by John Robert Coy about how he built a Timesaver in O Scale.  It is actually 3-rail O Scale.  It looks great.

Ken Vandevoort