Date   

Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

David Thomas
 

I realise that the last sentence in my first paragraph was ambiguous. The photos in the 1968 Railway Modeller article were of course suppled by John Allen.

Looking more closely at the night time shot in John Allen's own March 1948 Model Railway News article, I realise that it was a set up. At that time John had only built three "old-time 54ft open end passenger cars" so they were clearly spaced out to imply a longer train. The rest of the stock he had at that time were a 4-4-0 "old time" passenger loco built with Mantua parts (the loco seen at the head of the train) an 0-4-0 Varney switcher "which doubles for a freight engine",  18 assorted freight cars, about half home (i.e. scratch) built and half kit built.and he was in the course of scratch building a 2-8-0 "old time" freight engine, four more freight cars  and a rotary snow plough "which actually is a track cleaner"  Of the six switches, five were no. 4 and one was a no. 6 


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

David Thomas
 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt wrote:
Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff
Hi Jeff
Thanks for posting those. I have that edition of Railway Modeller. It was my first ever sight of the G&D or of American model railroading so, as a teenager I was well impressed. I had thought that I'd seen all those photos elsewhere but I could well have been mistaken. The artlcle was written by a British modeller D.L.Clarke who had visited John during a business trip to California and illustrated with six photos suppled by him.

By coincidence, while looking for something else yesterday evening, I found an early artlcle by John Allen in the Model Railway News of March 1948 describing the first G&D. His photos aren't particularly well reproduced apart from the one on the front cover.  I think I've seen them in the photo archive but was struck by the night time scene with all the coaches lit up. The track plan looks to be a very early one with some differences around the engine shed, though I understand that it and the turntable never did appear in that location within the loops.
His closing remarks are interesting though.
"Being in an area in which I am practically a 'pioneer' in the hobby, though I first learnt that there was such a thing as scale model railroading late in 1944, I've had to rely on magazines and books, rather than friends, for the necessary information on how to go about building a railroad. This being my first railroad I've kept the trackwork simple"

.







Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Tom Hokel (Pine Ridge RR)
 

Thanks for sharing these, Jeff. I've never seen them before. Are there any other "new" ones in the mag we haven't seen.

I've seen the privy before. Here are a couple of photos from the Andy's MR G&D interview video.


--
Tom
<PR> PINE RIDGE RR


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Lowell Dorman
 

Pretty sure it shows up in the video somewhere..


On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 4:16 PM Ken Vandevoort via Groups.Io <apo09324=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have seen a C&NW porta-potty on a flat car, so there is a prototype.

Ken Vandevoort


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Ken Vandevoort
 

I have seen a C&NW porta-potty on a flat car, so there is a prototype.

Ken Vandevoort


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Russell Courtenay
 

I notice it’s on the RIP track, maybe someone really ripped one and it had to be repaired! Sorry, couldn’t resist...

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Nov 29, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Tom Milam via Groups.Io <ncngrr@...> wrote:

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Warner Swarner
 

Thanks for pointing that out.  I missed that.  Not sure that’s a “Biffy” or a Bobber.  It would fit into the Biffy (privy) cartoon/humor models era with Towers as NMRA editor.  Either way it is a cool small model for a short line local.  I would love to model that for my BS RR in large scale.  Are there any other pictures of it in the archives?  Seems like I have seen a prototype for something like that on a West Side logging line or other in the NW woods RR built on a logging disconnect?  Certainly would be on the End of a train.
Happy Day After T Day.  
Warner Swarner



On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Tom Milam via Groups.Io <ncngrr@...> wrote:

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Tom Milam
 

Now there’s sometime I have never seen before , a Gorre and Daphetid privy on wheels . Must be from Whit Towers or at least the days of Whit and theNMRA outhouses! Thanks , I guess I got to do one of those

Tom Milam


On Nov 29, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


Re: from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Jeffrey L Witt
 


from September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller

Jeffrey L Witt
 

Happy Day-after Thanksgiving. Here's two from the September 1968 British magazine Railway Modeller. I picked these two because I'm don't recall seeing either of these exact shots before. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-258_2-300_0.jpg
http://witt-family.com/gorre-and-daphetid/RM-19680900-001_1-600_0.jpg

Jeff


HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL MY FELLOW JOHN ALLEN FANS

Matt Hosford
 
Edited

To everyone have a Safe and Happy Holiday weekend.

May all the feathers be plucked well on your bird and skip the couch and play trains!

In the spirit of giving and sharing......

Cyber sale Scale Structures LTD 25% off until Dec 8th.....for all the miniature holiday trimmings....

SS LTD 25 % off 

Matt Hosford
Wurn & Whythyrd Lines


Re: O Gauge version of original G&D

Russell Courtenay
 

Great work Charles! I’ll have to find that software. 

I really love the original G&D and feel the ‘Twice Around with Branch’ is the best small track plan out there for the amount of railroading you can get in a small space. 

I also love O scale and 2-rail. Unfortunately, O scale makes for some BIG roundy-round layouts, it just doesn’t fit on a 4x8. But this is a nice adaptation, I’ll have to pick up the magazine. 

My design of the original G&D is a bit smaller as it is designed as mainly an individual electric line with 24” radius (96 feet in O scale!) Complete it will be 6’8”x 8’8” but in the layout it will only be the front half and 3’4” deep- no complete loops, still working on a drawing. 

Most 2-rail O scale trains though will operate on 3-rail curves, here is an old video of my son (now a cranky 14 year old!) operating on my old Atlas 24” radius snap track 4x10 foot oval. 
https://youtu.be/naM2iU-hqLo

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Nov 25, 2019, at 2:11 AM, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:

The December 2019/January 2020 issue (Run 309) of “O Gauge Railroading” magazine has an article “O Gauge Version of John Allen’s Iconic G&D” by Ken Hoganson.

 

I thought a little info about this might be interesting.  It is nice to see the G&D appear again.

 

I didn’t think it would appropriate to copy the plans from the magazine (especially one still on sale), so I redrew them.  If you do get the magazine, you will find there are at least several errors with the particular track pieces called out.  But it’s not hard to figure out what is correct (especially things like a left hand switch being noted as right hand).  He also mixes both Lionel Fastrack (plastic roadbed) and Atlas track (no roadbed) pointing out that the Atlas is good for bridges and such.

 

First, here is the original for reference:

 

<B7EFA40A5B824FB2A9C0360EA1A22B92.jpg>

 

Here is my redrawing of the magazine track plan.  I used the program AnyRail and I think I got it pretty close.  The author points out, “As an O gauge plan, a number of features been added or revised form the original HO plan to meet O gauge enthusiast expectations.  Three new spurs have been added, along with an interchange track to a connecting railroad, hidden staging tracks, more structures, and some operating accessories.”

 

The turntable is an Atlas 24 incher and substantially larger, proportionally, than what John used.  The author acknowledges that it eats up a lot of space on the right wide of the layout.

 

There is a drawing in the magazine with suggested building locations and the result is MUCH more crowded than the original.  It is much closer to the spaghetti bowl trackage we so often see, especially in O gauge.  The bucolic nature seems completely lost.  But there is more railroading possible.  John had maybe six structures including water tanks, and they were small.  This O gauge plan has about 15 structures and quite a few are fairly large.

 

The radius isn’t as tight as John’s and the minimum is “O-60” which is 60” diameter or 30” radius.  (The original Lionel curves we had in our childhood were O-27 or O-31 for 27 and 31 inch diameters – really sharp curves – O-36 is what comes in most train sets now).

 

I think the O Gauge plan manages to lose original’s character, but the changes seem to have been carefully considered with reasons.

 

The layout size is 7”6” x 12’.  12” grid lines in my drawings.

 

The plan in the magazine has a bite taken out of the top right corner called “open access and viewing”.  Not sure it is needed depending on what sides of the layout are accessible.  Also, the lake (he calls it a pond) is designed to be removable for access.   Also,  unlike the original plan the lower level tracks to are not hidden at the upper right and the trestle carries the branch line over the now visible trackage.

 

The original plan has 6 switches, this plan increases that to 13.

 

<2456649809A14047A79D51B3CCF871D1.jpg>

 

Here it is after undoing all of those changes but still using the same pieces for most of the basic design that the author used.  I put a switch in about the right place for the spur along the front edge at Gorre.  I also tried to set up the turn table tracks closer to what the original was.  Due to how the space is, it might be better to deviate from the original design and perhaps put the engine house where you can have the longest tracks.  Finally, I made the tracks at the upper right of the plan hidden like the original.

 

<805A2D9C57ED44948D70AAC4775CEDCF.jpg>

 

Note that in this sort of track layout program it attempts to “lock” the pieces together and that is indicated by the little white circles.  Often, you can’t get things quite perfect and there may be a very small gap or misalignment on the CAD plan.  But if such errors are small, everything will connect fine in real life.  Track ha a little give and take.  This has two such minor issues:  The end of the track for what is the long straight bridge near Gorre doesn’t quite align with the switch to the branch line.  Also, the siding at the front edge as draw has all the track “locked” nicely, but it is at a slight angle and I meant it to be parallel.  But looking at the plan, perhaps I could just rotate the whole shebang a little to correct that.  Again, the track will easily give enough to allow a little realignment in real life.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

<B7EFA40A5B824FB2A9C0360EA1A22B92.jpg>
<2456649809A14047A79D51B3CCF871D1.jpg>
<805A2D9C57ED44948D70AAC4775CEDCF.jpg>


Re: RMC PDFs uploaded

Bob Friddle
 

somehow I never saw this, so thanks so much for sharing!


Re: smoke stack screens

Charles Kinzer
 

I don’t know what John Allen used.  But WAY back when I got some beryllium copper wire mesh.  (Small sizes tend to be called “mesh” and not “screen”.)

 

I went to some company in Chicago that made it when I was about 16 years old.  Of course, they sold it industrially, but took pity on me and gave me a little sample.  Voila.

 

It’s probably easier to find just plain copper mesh.  I found this company, as an example (and I’m sure there are others), and they have mesh counts of 1 to 2300.  They don’t give a unit of measurement, though.  Perhaps that is per centimeter.  For the finest mesh, the wire diameter is 0.0008” or 0.0203mm.  And 635x635 mesh count (again, don’t know if that is per centimeter or per inch).  That’s probably too fine, so you probably would want something large enough you can at least see the mesh, and perhaps even paint it although chemical blackening may be better.

 

They have a note “Free sample 20*20 cm (if available)”.  Probably a lifetime supply for somebody adding spark arresters to their HO engines.

 

https://www.zgwiremesh.com/product/copper-wire-mesh/

 

It seems they also have brass in these sizes and also offer other metals but not go to as fine a mesh size as copper.

 

How to make them?  I think you just cut with scissors and form them and/or stretch them as needed.  You have to be extremely careful if doing any soldering so that you don’t let solder wick into the screen and plug it up.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Russ Desmond via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 2:39 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: [GandD] smoke stack screens

 

I am wondering if anyone can give me any info on the smokestack fire screens john used of some of his locos. How did he make them..... where did he buy them etc. This is a detail part I very much want to add to my locos.
--
Russell Desmond

 


smoke stack screens

 

I am wondering if anyone can give me any info on the smokestack fire screens john used of some of his locos. How did he make them..... where did he buy them etc. This is a detail part I very much want to add to my locos.
--
Russell Desmond


O Gauge version of original G&D

Charles Kinzer
 

The December 2019/January 2020 issue (Run 309) of “O Gauge Railroading” magazine has an article “O Gauge Version of John Allen’s Iconic G&D” by Ken Hoganson.

 

I thought a little info about this might be interesting.  It is nice to see the G&D appear again.

 

I didn’t think it would appropriate to copy the plans from the magazine (especially one still on sale), so I redrew them.  If you do get the magazine, you will find there are at least several errors with the particular track pieces called out.  But it’s not hard to figure out what is correct (especially things like a left hand switch being noted as right hand).  He also mixes both Lionel Fastrack (plastic roadbed) and Atlas track (no roadbed) pointing out that the Atlas is good for bridges and such.

 

First, here is the original for reference:

 

 

Here is my redrawing of the magazine track plan.  I used the program AnyRail and I think I got it pretty close.  The author points out, “As an O gauge plan, a number of features been added or revised form the original HO plan to meet O gauge enthusiast expectations.  Three new spurs have been added, along with an interchange track to a connecting railroad, hidden staging tracks, more structures, and some operating accessories.”

 

The turntable is an Atlas 24 incher and substantially larger, proportionally, than what John used.  The author acknowledges that it eats up a lot of space on the right wide of the layout.

 

There is a drawing in the magazine with suggested building locations and the result is MUCH more crowded than the original.  It is much closer to the spaghetti bowl trackage we so often see, especially in O gauge.  The bucolic nature seems completely lost.  But there is more railroading possible.  John had maybe six structures including water tanks, and they were small.  This O gauge plan has about 15 structures and quite a few are fairly large.

 

The radius isn’t as tight as John’s and the minimum is “O-60” which is 60” diameter or 30” radius.  (The original Lionel curves we had in our childhood were O-27 or O-31 for 27 and 31 inch diameters – really sharp curves – O-36 is what comes in most train sets now).

 

I think the O Gauge plan manages to lose original’s character, but the changes seem to have been carefully considered with reasons.

 

The layout size is 7”6” x 12’.  12” grid lines in my drawings.

 

The plan in the magazine has a bite taken out of the top right corner called “open access and viewing”.  Not sure it is needed depending on what sides of the layout are accessible.  Also, the lake (he calls it a pond) is designed to be removable for access.   Also,  unlike the original plan the lower level tracks to are not hidden at the upper right and the trestle carries the branch line over the now visible trackage.

 

The original plan has 6 switches, this plan increases that to 13.

 

 

Here it is after undoing all of those changes but still using the same pieces for most of the basic design that the author used.  I put a switch in about the right place for the spur along the front edge at Gorre.  I also tried to set up the turn table tracks closer to what the original was.  Due to how the space is, it might be better to deviate from the original design and perhaps put the engine house where you can have the longest tracks.  Finally, I made the tracks at the upper right of the plan hidden like the original.

 

 

Note that in this sort of track layout program it attempts to “lock” the pieces together and that is indicated by the little white circles.  Often, you can’t get things quite perfect and there may be a very small gap or misalignment on the CAD plan.  But if such errors are small, everything will connect fine in real life.  Track ha a little give and take.  This has two such minor issues:  The end of the track for what is the long straight bridge near Gorre doesn’t quite align with the switch to the branch line.  Also, the siding at the front edge as draw has all the track “locked” nicely, but it is at a slight angle and I meant it to be parallel.  But looking at the plan, perhaps I could just rotate the whole shebang a little to correct that.  Again, the track will easily give enough to allow a little realignment in real life.

 

Charles E. “Chuck” Kinzer

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: RMC PDFs uploaded

Tom Hokel (Pine Ridge RR)
 

Thanks, Jeff.

I didn't weather the tribute cars, but replaced any of the plastic deep-flanged wheel sets with metal low-profile ones. Would have loved to have that new BLI USRA Mike with sound, but I just couldn't justify the cost when all I could do was run it back and forth.

I have that Delta Lines boxcar in HO scale and a few others. One of my rarest is Wescott's Sunset Railway & Navigation Co made by C&BT Shops. Not many photos of Linn's layout exist. Still in their boxes, but I'll get them out one of these days. To weather or not to weather … that is question.

--
Tom
<PR> PINE RIDGE RR


Re: RMC PDFs uploaded

Neil Erickson
 

Jeff: 

I have a few as well if you want them. Pm. 



Neil

On Nov 14, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reminder, Tom...I hadn't read the issue yet.

Nice article! A great improvement to that area. You have quite a collection of the Micro-trains tribute cars...I just lost out on a Delta Lines boxcar...but of course I have the G&D car, both N and Z scale! Missing S, O, and G.

Too bad the NMRA doesn't still run the "Heritage" and "Living Legends" series cars.

Jeff


Re: NMRA Special cars

Russell Courtenay
 

Those special NMRA runs were really cool, they come up from time to time online but very little in O scale.

 A full original Delta Lines passenger set was for sale on eBay a while ago, a bit out of my budget, but some original O scale stuff still appears at local shows at good prices I’ve heard, I assume because O scale isn’t nearly as popular as HO. 

Unfortunately, I am 2000 miles away from much of the model railroad activity that took place 70-80 years ago and nearly 1000 miles from Monterey, but Idaho is a beautiful place so....

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 


On Nov 14, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Jeffrey L Witt via Groups.Io <jlwitt@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reminder, Tom...I hadn't read the issue yet.

Nice article! A great improvement to that area. You have quite a collection of the Micro-trains tribute cars...I just lost out on a Delta Lines boxcar...but of course I have the G&D car, both N and Z scale! Missing S, O, and G.

Too bad the NMRA doesn't still run the "Heritage" and "Living Legends" series cars.

Jeff


Re: RMC PDFs uploaded

Jeffrey L Witt
 

Thanks for the reminder, Tom...I hadn't read the issue yet.

Nice article! A great improvement to that area. You have quite a collection of the Micro-trains tribute cars...I just lost out on a Delta Lines boxcar...but of course I have the G&D car, both N and Z scale! Missing S, O, and G.

Too bad the NMRA doesn't still run the "Heritage" and "Living Legends" series cars.

Jeff