Date   
Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Jeffrey L Witt
 

Comparing the two, it is clearly the same source drawing, with typeface replacing the hand-lettering. You can see the re-touching.

How this was done with the technology of the times is beyond me.

The print quality in 1963 MRs was not the best; any scanning above 300 DPI is fruitless. Even then, processing is required to remove the "screening" (whatever the process is called, the use of dots of various sizes to reproduce photographs) and re-create a photo-like image. Which I have done to all my scans. The original TIFs look horrible on computer screens.

http://gdlines.info/MR-19630300-031-300_20.jpg 

The whole article, well worth reading:
http://gdlines.info/G&D_links.htm#MR_1963_Mar 

Jeff

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Jeffrey L Witt
 

It's from the "Landmark Layouts 2012 Calendar".

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Well sir... anything is possible...   We know it had to be one of these two designs. 
    With the evidence of an almost exact longer copy as he made for the other side of Scalp Mountain the best guess and best evidence of final design our group has come up with so far. 
There is just that "John Allen" factor hee that can't be ignored.  He did not like making any two bridges alike.. !  I fact he had managed to NOT do it in the more than 100 he'd already created to that point.    So I guarantee he was considering every option.    Doing both would really be a crazy fun madman's endeavour...!     John would approve...

Randy      

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 3:45 PM Bob Friddle <bob.friddle@...> wrote:

Randy, this is a beauty and certainly John Allen-worthy! I agree he repeated few designs, and this would definitely be a nice addition. I’m thinking that this particular viewing angle, if reversed and scaled properly, could be superimposed on the classic giant canyon photo to get a good idea of its impact. If I can find some time I’ll try to make it happen with my rudimentary skills.

Cheers,

Bob Friddle

Gabriele Lines – Route of the Angels

Minneapolis

 

From: GandD@groups.io [mailto:GandD@groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Lee Decker via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:36 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Study of my own photos from 1971

 

For the fun of It I might build a version of this bridge..  (Since the notebook sketches we know exist, do not seem to be in the hands of anyone who will ever let them see the light of day) To save the foolish arguments from other who might not actually read the posts.......""I do not think this is what John would have done""..  but Girder connections to some version of a half through arch could easily be made to look quite good. 

   Image result for half through arch bridge images

Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Yes indeed      
John was quite an artist...  and from what I am learning there are some other wonderful drawings/sketches that did not make it to "the book" but do exist.  
  We can all only guess at how many things may have been lost to the fire that were not out of the home at that time, and in Andrews possession, to be used by Linn Westcott who picked them up later.

Randy 

    

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 3:32 PM Donald Robichaud <djrobi61@...> wrote:
Ok Guys, time for my 2 cents,
In looking at the drawing on and off for years... and paralysis of analysis... focus on the lettering and drawing pencil strokes(page 6-7). I've noticed that they are so incredibly similar to the plans on page 40, 47 and 61. Maybe the handwriting is right in front of us.
Donald Robichaud

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Bob Friddle
 

Randy, this is a beauty and certainly John Allen-worthy! I agree he repeated few designs, and this would definitely be a nice addition. I’m thinking that this particular viewing angle, if reversed and scaled properly, could be superimposed on the classic giant canyon photo to get a good idea of its impact. If I can find some time I’ll try to make it happen with my rudimentary skills.

Cheers,

Bob Friddle

Gabriele Lines – Route of the Angels

Minneapolis

 

From: GandD@groups.io [mailto:GandD@groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Lee Decker via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:36 PM
To: GandD@groups.io
Subject: Re: [GandD] Study of my own photos from 1971

 

For the fun of It I might build a version of this bridge..  (Since the notebook sketches we know exist, do not seem to be in the hands of anyone who will ever let them see the light of day) To save the foolish arguments from other who might not actually read the posts.......""I do not think this is what John would have done""..  but Girder connections to some version of a half through arch could easily be made to look quite good. 

   Image result for half through arch bridge images

Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Donald Robichaud
 

Ok Guys, time for my 2 cents,
In looking at the drawing on and off for years... and paralysis of analysis... focus on the lettering and drawing pencil strokes(page 6-7). I've noticed that they are so incredibly similar to the plans on page 40, 47 and 61. Maybe the handwriting is right in front of us.
Donald Robichaud

Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Russell Courtenay
 

Good to hear there is some possible progress Randy, your tenacity will be rewarded with results or bony fingers (sorry, quoting a silly old song)...

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 25, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

In fact it seems as if they just took a photo of Johns darwin and then colored it and cleaned up a few things.   No one from MR would have been allowed to just create this drawing on paper, John did the original drawing.  He was an artists and no one else would have understood his concept or had this in their head like John did.   I find it tough to decipher and it takes me time to figure it out even today...  lol....  Yet  It is an excellent seamless image..  .   
  
   There's some more communications I am working on concerning many of these things.  Some of my previous notes are opening doors as I had hoped.  Seems that some people do respond well when they are shocked into realising a long standing mistake and have time to rethink things.   There is hope for the world. 


Randy 

     

Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Russell Courtenay
 

This is one I haven’t seen, it was published a year before I was born so that is understandable I guess! Thanks!

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 25, 2019, at 11:03 AM, Bruce Wilson <wilsonbrucea@...> wrote:

This image appeared in March 1963 Model Railroader article “Concept and Planning of the Gorre & Daphetid”.  This would suggest it was done in-house by an MR staff illustrator to illustrate the article.

Bruce Wilson
Barrie, ON
<MR-19630300-031-300_20.jpg>

Re: G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

I'd agree...  but this image is not the same as the hand drawn Conceptual drawing in the book...   The origin of the one does not share the origin of the other. 
   I would say this magazine print was done using Johns drawing.      They did a nice job though..   

Randy 

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Well if you look at your photo taken in 71  It is hard to see as you were not close or zoomed in like this shot was...  But if you use magnification you can plainly see the flat pads directly below the protruding girder there.   

Warner.....  I think there was still some confusion about the steel arch span John did complete BTW...  Perhaps this will help....  If you look at the plan for my room I sent along, you can plainly see Scalp Mountain. or for anyone else "what you see on Page 84"  In this birdseye drawing, the bridge that runs to the mountain on the left side is the one John finished and is pictured in my previous message...  it is that beautiful spindley box & lace girder, cross braced, masterpiece, in silver that we all have seen the photos of...   It crosses an area of about four feet... perhaps a bit more.   And it has a few spots where you can see the concrete pads those feet run to in the rock escarpments on each side.
     
    I have just recently realised he was pushing hard to finish his High Bridge Route...  Oddly enough it must have been immediately after the time you guys were there in October of 71 Warner ......  To do so, there were SIX spans that needed to be bridged to achieve this and drive his last spike.  The two massive spans one on each side of Scalp Mountain.... and the Two over the Great Divide yard and the two in front of West Divide....    
  
 So in the winter of 71-72 he built the one steel arch span...on the left side of Scalp Mountain, we know this because the photo's of it prove it was done by January of 1972 and this fact is in the book as well.  Jim Findley talks about being allowed to do some scenery work to try and fix one of the foot placements on that big bridge..  (something John never let anyone do before) (Jim felt John must have touched it up anyway as it looked better later than Jim remembers leaving it)   LOL  ... but the other 5 bridges still remaining were still a work in progress.  I am not sure what John was doing most of early and mid 72?   But he did work on the two steel truss bridges over the Great Divide yard area and the two in front of West Divide and had them done all about the same time in late December of 72...... (Don Mitchell recently sent us a photo of this work)     We know this was very near Johns death before he got them done...    Rod Smith has told me he visited Johns layout about a month or a little less before John passed. In December of 72...... He does not remember these bridges at all and did not have a camera with him anyway.   Don Mitchell had his camera and had the time to visit due to a postponement in his transfer while in service so he spent his time at Johns place while waiting... And luckily he took a series of photographs  (MANY OF US ARE PRAYING AND WAITING FOR HIM TO RELEASE for 46 years now.. )    Don would have to verify the actual day and date but we know it was about "two weeks" before John died.    Don's images might very well be the only record of Johns last efforts. 

So in January of 1973....this left John with the "Great Bridge" as the last section of track unfinished.  The steel girder was left hanging there and might just be the saddest, most visually poignant poetic image there is to tell this incredible but tragic story. 

Randy

      

G&D Map Paged 6-7 in Book

Bruce Wilson
 

This image appeared in March 1963 Model Railroader article “Concept and Planning of the Gorre & Daphetid”.  This would suggest it was done in-house by an MR staff illustrator to illustrate the article.

Bruce Wilson
Barrie, ON

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Warner Swarner
 

Wow, what sharp eyes some of you have!  NOW I CAN SEE.  Like a light just switched on.  The footings were there, but since when?  I will go back and search my photos closer.
What YEAR was this Calendar photo in?  Recently I’m sure.  I have it in one of my stacks and never looked.
Now great detectives, what year was this JA photo taken and what year were those bridge footings put in place? 
Warner
  image1.png


On Jul 25, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...> wrote:

Dave Toms mention of it is in the Original Drawing Size thread I began a while back.    

 I have not seen the calender where this photo was used before.  But it is a nice shot...  Must be  some of Model Railroaders Photos they rolled out again here.   I'd like to buy one of these calendars if anyone has one they want to let go of. btw    

Tom says Warner has a shot of it in his things as well.  So I'd check there as well...   What you're looking for is any photograph that shows the area directly under the protruding steel girder that hangs in mid air waiting for Johns last bridge to be built.      



 

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Dave Toms mention of it is in the Original Drawing Size thread I began a while back.    

 I have not seen the calender where this photo was used before.  But it is a nice shot...  Must be  some of Model Railroaders Photos they rolled out again here.   I'd like to buy one of these calendars if anyone has one they want to let go of. btw    

Tom says Warner has a shot of it in his things as well.  So I'd check there as well...   What you're looking for is any photograph that shows the area directly under the protruding steel girder that hangs in mid air waiting for Johns last bridge to be built.      



 

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 

Hey Dave I am glad you are seeing these...  Good stuff here 

I don't  I am not sure if that photo is in the book or not.  Most likely it is in the "slides" section on GDLines.org.    This is my go to source for building my layout as accurately as possible.... 

I will check and see if this is correct and try and find the page and number to help find it easier.  Tom might see this and jump in as well before then.   Either way  Check out the web page.    Click on either photo on the main page.. from there you can indulge in so much fun!   Warners fantastic photos, he took, during his visit back in 1971 (he is referencing in this thread) are there as well....  Enjoy 

Randy

Re: Study of my own photos from 1971

David Woodrell
 

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:55 PM, Randy Lee Decker wrote:
  [  Toms pointing out of the bridge feet support pads below the drains area and they are a fantastic find.]

Do you have a reference page in the book for Tom's (I assume Hokel?) discovery?  I seem to vaguely remember the string, but I have a hard time keeping track of all the paths we go down in our detective work!!!

Dave

Re: Gazettes

Russell Courtenay
 

Yeah, I assumed (correctly) they didn’t know the song or the lyrics, but it was the first song I could think of that didn’t require a G chord, which I can’t play with my gimped little finger...

I would have played Old Man (with muted high G!) but if their parents overheard, it may have been misinterpreted...

I did start writing a song about the G&D back on Golden Spike day (March 12) but it was a jazz sound I came up with and such a song will take some time to finish...

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 24, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Bob Friddle <bob.friddle@...> wrote:

One does have to wonder about the song choice for a couple of little girls, no?
Glad to hear you’re doing better though! 
Bob
On Jul 24, 2019, at 5:25 PM, Russell Courtenay via Groups.Io <walruswebtech@...> wrote:

I’ll have to explore the online indices more, they seem buggy to me. I plan on taking a photo of the table of contents page of every magazine I own, I seem to do better with that kind of reference. 

I have managed to locate all my boxes of magazines in the process of cleaning up the barn for my proposed layout. For G&D content, it includes a narrower O scale version of the original G&D in one corner. It will be totally portable because the landlord has decided he will not sell, but I would love to take it to shows anyway! An artsy shot of the barn at sunset is attached. 

Hand is getting better, still hurts but I was able to play a song on my guitar when a couple little girls asked why I was strumming my guitar by my car at Emmett Cruise Night (I thought I would try after 2 months of not touching the guitar since the accident) managed a near perfect rendition of The Needle and The Damage Done, they were joyous and so was I!

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?
<image1.jpeg>
On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Darryl Huffman via Groups.Io <darrylhuffman@...> wrote:

Russell,

No need to catalog the Gazettes.

Trains online website that has an index of articles in the Gazette and other magazines.

How is your hand?

Darryl Huffman


Re: Gazettes

Bob Friddle
 
Edited

One does have to wonder about the song choice for a couple of little girls, no?
Glad to hear you’re doing better though! 
Bob

On Jul 24, 2019, at 5:25 PM, Russell Courtenay via Groups.Io <walruswebtech@...> wrote:

I’ll have to explore the online indices more, they seem buggy to me. I plan on taking a photo of the table of contents page of every magazine I own, I seem to do better with that kind of reference. 

I have managed to locate all my boxes of magazines in the process of cleaning up the barn for my proposed layout. For G&D content, it includes a narrower O scale version of the original G&D in one corner. It will be totally portable because the landlord has decided he will not sell, but I would love to take it to shows anyway! An artsy shot of the barn at sunset is attached. 

Hand is getting better, still hurts but I was able to play a song on my guitar when a couple little girls asked why I was strumming my guitar by my car at Emmett Cruise Night (I thought I would try after 2 months of not touching the guitar since the accident) managed a near perfect rendition of The Needle and The Damage Done, they were joyous and so was I!

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?
<image1.jpeg>
On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Darryl Huffman via Groups.Io <darrylhuffman@...> wrote:

Russell,

No need to catalog the Gazettes.

Trains online website that has an index of articles in the Gazette and other magazines.

How is your hand?

Darryl Huffman


Re: Gazettes

Randy Lee Decker <randyleedecker@...>
 
Edited

Needle and the Damage...!      Whatcha doing pl'n thet hippie suf  fer...  

Love it..    Be well sir.    

Randy 

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:25 PM Russell Courtenay via Groups.Io <walruswebtech=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’ll have to explore the online indices more, they seem buggy to me. I plan on taking a photo of the table of contents page of every magazine I own, I seem to do better with that kind of reference. 

I have managed to locate all my boxes of magazines in the process of cleaning up the barn for my proposed layout. For G&D content, it includes a narrower O scale version of the original G&D in one corner. It will be totally portable because the landlord has decided he will not sell, but I would love to take it to shows anyway! An artsy shot of the barn at sunset is attached. 

Hand is getting better, still hurts but I was able to play a song on my guitar when a couple little girls asked why I was strumming my guitar by my car at Emmett Cruise Night (I thought I would try after 2 months of not touching the guitar since the accident) managed a near perfect rendition of The Needle and The Damage Done, they were joyous and so was I!

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Darryl Huffman via Groups.Io <darrylhuffman@...> wrote:

Russell,

No need to catalog the Gazettes.

Trains online website that has an index of articles in the Gazette and other magazines.

How is your hand?

Darryl Huffman


Re: Gazettes

Russell Courtenay
 
Edited

I’ll have to explore the online indices more, they seem buggy to me. I plan on taking a photo of the table of contents page of every magazine I own, I seem to do better with that kind of reference. 

I have managed to locate all my boxes of magazines in the process of cleaning up the barn for my proposed layout. For G&D content, it includes a narrower O scale version of the original G&D in one corner. It will be totally portable because the landlord has decided he will not sell, but I would love to take it to shows anyway! An artsy shot of the barn at sunset is attached. 

Hand is getting better, still hurts but I was able to play a song on my guitar when a couple little girls asked why I was strumming my guitar by my car at Emmett Cruise Night (I thought I would try after 2 months of not touching the guitar since the accident) managed a near perfect rendition of The Needle and The Damage Done, they were joyous and so was I!

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?

On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Darryl Huffman via Groups.Io <darrylhuffman@...> wrote:

Russell,

No need to catalog the Gazettes.

Trains online website that has an index of articles in the Gazette and other magazines.

How is your hand?

Darryl Huffman


Gazettes was Re: [GandD] Trying to find an old Railroad advertisement

Darryl Huffman
 

Russell,

No need to catalog the Gazettes.

Trains online website that has an index of articles in the Gazette and other magazines.

How is your hand?

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 3:31 PM, Russell Courtenay via Groups.Io <walruswebtech@...> wrote:

I remember Trains magazine of the ‘70’s was mainly directed to professionals who were also railfans, there were many railroad, shipper and supplier ads in Trains back then. So I can see SP advertising there and must’ve seen some. 

Though I only picked up Trains occasionally, I kept all my magazines, but there are many boxes. 

I have recently acquired a full set of Narrow Gauge Gazette but have yet to sort and catalog them. I really want to go digital but I don’t have an iPad, the easiest way to read digital documents, I have some digital publications but find them very difficult to read extensively on computer or phone...

Russell Courtenay
July is national what month?