Part 101


Joe WB9SBD
 

Ok,

From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

 day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD


BASE_DePauw
 

Joe,

Subpart B of FAR 101 covers tethered (moored) balloons.


§ 101.13 Operating limitations.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite -

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication “Obstruction Marking and Lighting”.

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.


Hope this is helpful,

Howard, KC9QBN



On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Ok,

 From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free
balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a
tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

  day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD








--
Howard L. Brooks
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
241 Julian Science and Mathematics Center
DePauw University
2 E. Hanna Street
Greencastle, IN 46135
hlbrooks@...


Joe WB9SBD
 

That's a little confusing, isn't it?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/14/2021 2:17 PM, BASE_DePauw wrote:
Joe,

Subpart B of FAR 101 covers tethered (moored) balloons.


§ 101.13 Operating limitations.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite -

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication “Obstruction Marking and Lighting”.

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.


Hope this is helpful,

Howard, KC9QBN



On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Ok,

 From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free
balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a
tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

  day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD








--
Howard L. Brooks
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
241 Julian Science and Mathematics Center
DePauw University
2 E. Hanna Street
Greencastle, IN 46135
hlbrooks@...


Garrett, Mark
 

Good thing no one ever caught me.  
I flew kites as a kid and I had a spool of string that held 600 feet of line.  I would get the kite up and let it all out.  If I had to go in and have dinner I would wrap the line around the tree trunk or stake it down with blocks.  I also flew kites during fog where you could only see the line going up.  And at night with all the line out.  I did have an issue with one night flight in that the line went horizontal over a high tension line.  Had to walk a block and shine a light up to see what was going on.  I managed to back down the line and then run and get the kite to lift over the line.  
All good things come to an end.  I had the kite up and all the line was out and had a gustnado snap the line at about the 300 foot mark and took the kite with it.  I hopped on my bike and chased it as far as I could pedal and the last time I saw the kite and the trailing line it was up at 500 feet and traveling faster than I could go on my bike. 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:17 PM BASE_DePauw <hlbrooks@...> wrote:
Joe,

Subpart B of FAR 101 covers tethered (moored) balloons.


§ 101.13 Operating limitations.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite -

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication “Obstruction Marking and Lighting”.

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.


Hope this is helpful,

Howard, KC9QBN



On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Ok,

 From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free
balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a
tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

  day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD








--
Howard L. Brooks
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
241 Julian Science and Mathematics Center
DePauw University
2 E. Hanna Street
Greencastle, IN 46135
hlbrooks@...



--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA


Joe WB9SBD
 

Same here Mark!

In 1976 when I passed to General, I of course got on SSB a lot. Being a crystal bound Novice well,,,,

Anyway I flew kites all the time, I made scaled up versions of the delta wing kites you could get at your local stores.
But these were BIG! The largest was probably 20 foot wingspan, I probably could have hang glided from it!

But here is one yeah stupid High school kid right? I made a specialty kite a "Delta Conyone" It's like a Hybrid delta wing and box kite.

It had three awesome flight characteristics.

1- It had a HUGE wind speed window, from a gentle barely breeze to 40 Mph it flew the same just pulled harder on the line.

2-It was incredibly stable. It would just sit there in the sky and just never moved.

3- the flight angle was extremely steep, like 80 degrees! The line was almost vertical!

I first used regular high strength kite line and taped like every 100 feet the wire to the line, I used magnet wire.

But later in these adventures I used Aluminum electric fence wire. Incredibly strong and super light weight.

The most used kite was a 8 footer for these antenna flights.

Longest wire I did was between 2 and 3 miles. CRAZY!!!!!  Thing Is I did not know any better back then, but now thinking of what that antennas radiation pattern was like, was more suited for Moonbounce than operating on HF, it had to be like a flashlight pointing straight up.

Anyway it was FUN!!!

Last flight was one where I had the Kite up about a mile or so, and was a strong wind day and gusty too.

Having fun making a lot of contacts from the picnic table in my backyard.  But the wind was stronger than I thought.

Next thing I know the Johnson KW Matchbox, Yes, that was the tuner I was using that giant boatanchor, well it was being dragged off the table and fell to the ground, when it did that, the SWR meter (el cheapo radio shack) literally broke in half separating the tuner from the Drake TR-4.  Now the tuner is being dragged across my backyard faster than I can keep up with it.

Till it crashes into our chain link fence. and then the wire snapped. The wire was rated at 250 pounds tensile strength. soooo? wow!

Now I see this Mile+ of wire running away and nothing I can do is watch. Then I remembered something, I hope this wire becomes airborne soon, because about ohhh a half mile from me, are the main power lines that supplied power to the whole area. BIG mega voltage power lines! Not good. This was the only above ground lines everything else was buried, GOOD! But the line was going directly towards them BAD!

Then Yup it happened it hit them, there is this Gigantic huge bluish fireball, and a extremely loud hard to describe sound even from 1/2 a mile away, a cross between a spark, and buzz, a zap and a explosion. think like the sound of a jacobs ladder but 1000 times louder and with some explosion aspect added in. But LOUD! And then for blocks around the power went out. OOPS! Police and fire dept come to the scene of the fireball, and no one can figure out what happened. As this kid stood nearby watching all the fuss and commotion. he he he.

So again back to Far 101, no clue how many laws I broke with those flights, Then even more of a like now a WOW factor. OK 2 & 3 mile long Aluminum 250 pound test wire. Then Location, where I was doing this...

I still Lived in Illinois at the time. My home is at the red arrow at the left, and look to the right what was I close to,, YIKES! and never even thought about it!

Joe


The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/14/2021 2:39 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:
Good thing no one ever caught me.  
I flew kites as a kid and I had a spool of string that held 600 feet of line.  I would get the kite up and let it all out.  If I had to go in and have dinner I would wrap the line around the tree trunk or stake it down with blocks.  I also flew kites during fog where you could only see the line going up.  And at night with all the line out.  I did have an issue with one night flight in that the line went horizontal over a high tension line.  Had to walk a block and shine a light up to see what was going on.  I managed to back down the line and then run and get the kite to lift over the line.  
All good things come to an end.  I had the kite up and all the line was out and had a gustnado snap the line at about the 300 foot mark and took the kite with it.  I hopped on my bike and chased it as far as I could pedal and the last time I saw the kite and the trailing line it was up at 500 feet and traveling faster than I could go on my bike. 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:17 PM BASE_DePauw <hlbrooks@...> wrote:
Joe,

Subpart B of FAR 101 covers tethered (moored) balloons.


§ 101.13 Operating limitations.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite -

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication “Obstruction Marking and Lighting”.

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.


Hope this is helpful,

Howard, KC9QBN



On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Ok,

 From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free
balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a
tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

  day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD








--
Howard L. Brooks
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
241 Julian Science and Mathematics Center
DePauw University
2 E. Hanna Street
Greencastle, IN 46135
hlbrooks@...


--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA



James Ewen VE6SRV
 

The FAR regulations are pretty straightforward and easy to follow. 

From the stories relayed thus far, it sounds like every one of the regulations for moored flight have been broken.

The reason you don't fly mega-long wires is because of the chance of crossing high voltage lines and causing blackouts, fires, and other assorted destruction.

Rules are written down and put into place because you have to legislate stupidity...

Yeah, that's harsh... I'm not calling those who have posted their stories stupid, but we all can probably provide tales of our own stupid actions. I know I have participated in many stupid activities myself.

What seemed like a great idea at the time, when looked back with the perspective of time and wisdom, one can wonder how we survived our youth. I have more than enough examples of my own stupidity, and wonder how I managed to survive this long.

We look at many rules and regulations, and wonder "Why do they have to spell out things that are common sense?"

Well, for every rule out there, someone has probably died because of the thing the rule forbids. Why can't you fly a moored balloon in clouds? Planes fly in the air... Why put markers on the mooring line? Again, planes fly in the air.

You can come up with a reason for each rule that is in place. Sometimes you just have to stop and think.

Job Hazard Analysis check sheets are common in the workplace these days. You are required to write down what you are doing, break it down into tasks, then you think about the hazards associated with the task, and determine how to complete the task safely.

Many groups are moving to Hydrogen as a lift gas. In doing so, you need to stop and think about the hazards associated, and put into place practices and procedures to ensure safety.

You will find a common issue with any hazardous task.

There are those who are oblivious to the hazard present because they haven't even thought about the possibility of hazards. This group is at risk, they may survive their actions.

Newbies are super cautious, afraid of the task and hazards present perhaps. They probably will survive their actions.

As you gain more experience, you start to become comfortable, maybe to the point where you start to forget some safety concerns. This group are at risk of not surviving.

If you survive the complacency phase, you end up being a wise and safe worker, with safety so ingrained that you don't have to consciously think about implementing safety. This group will probably continue to survive.

The kite stories related previously look to be examples of  being oblivious to the hazards. Taking out the power for the neighborhood probably was an "AHA!" moment.

Teenage boys live in the midrange of having some experience, and not understanding the dangers that they are exposing themselves to, or just going with the Superman mindset that nothing will ever hurt me.

Mortality for teenage boys due to stupid activities and workers that have been on the job for a few years is high due to the lack of attention on safety. The job hazard analysis cards are a means to try and get people to stop and think about the hazards present.

Both Mark and Joe, I thank you for posting your "Boy was I dumb!" stories. They give real world examples of what can happen when you don't stop and think about the "What if..." situations.

Where I am headed with this? The next time you start a task, whether it is your next HAB flight, or just cleaning out the gutters. Take a little bit of time to stop and think through the task, and the things you are going to be doing. Think about the hazards, and what you can do to mitigate those hazards. If you are working with others, take time to just talk your way through the tasks so everyone thinks about what could go wrong and how to deal with it.

Everyone will benefit by reducing the chances of injury, or loss. 

Nope, I'm not trying to call anyone stupid, but we all can look back at things we have done, and find actions that we have done that with hindsight can easily be classified as "stupid".

You should get to the point where you automatically stop and think about all of the components of your task, and do a hazard analysis out of habit.

Wisdom is probably just a lifetime of learning to mitigate risk... that's why it's always associated with the more senior members of society. If you've lived that long, you've probably learned how not to kill you self by being stupid.

I'm guessing that most of us on this reflector can claim at least a little bit of wisdom gained from surviving our own stupidity in our younger years.

James
VE6SRV


On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 9:46 AM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Same here Mark!

In 1976 when I passed to General, I of course got on SSB a lot. Being a crystal bound Novice well,,,,

Anyway I flew kites all the time, I made scaled up versions of the delta wing kites you could get at your local stores.
But these were BIG! The largest was probably 20 foot wingspan, I probably could have hang glided from it!

But here is one yeah stupid High school kid right? I made a specialty kite a "Delta Conyone" It's like a Hybrid delta wing and box kite.

It had three awesome flight characteristics.

1- It had a HUGE wind speed window, from a gentle barely breeze to 40 Mph it flew the same just pulled harder on the line.

2-It was incredibly stable. It would just sit there in the sky and just never moved.

3- the flight angle was extremely steep, like 80 degrees! The line was almost vertical!

I first used regular high strength kite line and taped like every 100 feet the wire to the line, I used magnet wire.

But later in these adventures I used Aluminum electric fence wire. Incredibly strong and super light weight.

The most used kite was a 8 footer for these antenna flights.

Longest wire I did was between 2 and 3 miles. CRAZY!!!!!  Thing Is I did not know any better back then, but now thinking of what that antennas radiation pattern was like, was more suited for Moonbounce than operating on HF, it had to be like a flashlight pointing straight up.

Anyway it was FUN!!!

Last flight was one where I had the Kite up about a mile or so, and was a strong wind day and gusty too.

Having fun making a lot of contacts from the picnic table in my backyard.  But the wind was stronger than I thought.

Next thing I know the Johnson KW Matchbox, Yes, that was the tuner I was using that giant boatanchor, well it was being dragged off the table and fell to the ground, when it did that, the SWR meter (el cheapo radio shack) literally broke in half separating the tuner from the Drake TR-4.  Now the tuner is being dragged across my backyard faster than I can keep up with it.

Till it crashes into our chain link fence. and then the wire snapped. The wire was rated at 250 pounds tensile strength. soooo? wow!

Now I see this Mile+ of wire running away and nothing I can do is watch. Then I remembered something, I hope this wire becomes airborne soon, because about ohhh a half mile from me, are the main power lines that supplied power to the whole area. BIG mega voltage power lines! Not good. This was the only above ground lines everything else was buried, GOOD! But the line was going directly towards them BAD!

Then Yup it happened it hit them, there is this Gigantic huge bluish fireball, and a extremely loud hard to describe sound even from 1/2 a mile away, a cross between a spark, and buzz, a zap and a explosion. think like the sound of a jacobs ladder but 1000 times louder and with some explosion aspect added in. But LOUD! And then for blocks around the power went out. OOPS! Police and fire dept come to the scene of the fireball, and no one can figure out what happened. As this kid stood nearby watching all the fuss and commotion. he he he.

So again back to Far 101, no clue how many laws I broke with those flights, Then even more of a like now a WOW factor. OK 2 & 3 mile long Aluminum 250 pound test wire. Then Location, where I was doing this...

I still Lived in Illinois at the time. My home is at the red arrow at the left, and look to the right what was I close to,, YIKES! and never even thought about it!

Joe


The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/14/2021 2:39 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:
Good thing no one ever caught me.  
I flew kites as a kid and I had a spool of string that held 600 feet of line.  I would get the kite up and let it all out.  If I had to go in and have dinner I would wrap the line around the tree trunk or stake it down with blocks.  I also flew kites during fog where you could only see the line going up.  And at night with all the line out.  I did have an issue with one night flight in that the line went horizontal over a high tension line.  Had to walk a block and shine a light up to see what was going on.  I managed to back down the line and then run and get the kite to lift over the line.  
All good things come to an end.  I had the kite up and all the line was out and had a gustnado snap the line at about the 300 foot mark and took the kite with it.  I hopped on my bike and chased it as far as I could pedal and the last time I saw the kite and the trailing line it was up at 500 feet and traveling faster than I could go on my bike. 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:17 PM BASE_DePauw <hlbrooks@...> wrote:
Joe,

Subpart B of FAR 101 covers tethered (moored) balloons.


§ 101.13 Operating limitations.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite -

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication “Obstruction Marking and Lighting”.

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.


Hope this is helpful,

Howard, KC9QBN



On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
Ok,

 From doing these flight for over 30 years I know Far 101 for Free
balloons inside and out.

But I am having trouble to find out what is legal and what is not for a
tethered or Moored balloon.

How high can you go, does it matter what size of balloon,

  day vs night etc.?

Joe WB9SBD








--
Howard L. Brooks
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
241 Julian Science and Mathematics Center
DePauw University
2 E. Hanna Street
Greencastle, IN 46135
hlbrooks@...


--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA



Joe WB9SBD
 

Very well written James,

OK, Now thinking of a Moored Balloon.

We were thinking of using a balloon to make an elevated 5/8 wave vertical for 160 meters.
Just to play with, an elevated one with drooping radials. 4 of them so should work like crazy.

Now It passes the 101.13 no problem, it won't get above 500 feet.

OK 101.15
That should not be a problem. Now I wonder if an actual ATC contact is needed or if a NOTAM meets this requirement?

Now this one might be a problem,
101.17
Daytime not a problem, but night time hmmmmm?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 11:42 AM, James Ewen VE6SRV wrote:
The FAR regulations are pretty straightforward and easy to follow. 

From the stories relayed thus far, it sounds like every one of the regulations for moored flight have been broken.

The reason you don't fly mega-long wires is because of the chance of crossing high voltage lines and causing blackouts, fires, and other assorted destruction.

Rules are written down and put into place because you have to legislate stupidity...

Yeah, that's harsh... I'm not calling those who have posted their stories stupid, but we all can probably provide tales of our own stupid actions. I know I have participated in many stupid activities myself.

What seemed like a great idea at the time, when looked back with the perspective of time and wisdom, one can wonder how we survived our youth. I have more than enough examples of my own stupidity, and wonder how I managed to survive this long.

We look at many rules and regulations, and wonder "Why do they have to spell out things that are common sense?"

Well, for every rule out there, someone has probably died because of the thing the rule forbids. Why can't you fly a moored balloon in clouds? Planes fly in the air... Why put markers on the mooring line? Again, planes fly in the air.

You can come up with a reason for each rule that is in place. Sometimes you just have to stop and think.

Job Hazard Analysis check sheets are common in the workplace these days. You are required to write down what you are doing, break it down into tasks, then you think about the hazards associated with the task, and determine how to complete the task safely.

Many groups are moving to Hydrogen as a lift gas. In doing so, you need to stop and think about the hazards associated, and put into place practices and procedures to ensure safety.

You will find a common issue with any hazardous task.

There are those who are oblivious to the hazard present because they haven't even thought about the possibility of hazards. This group is at risk, they may survive their actions.

Newbies are super cautious, afraid of the task and hazards present perhaps. They probably will survive their actions.

As you gain more experience, you start to become comfortable, maybe to the point where you start to forget some safety concerns. This group are at risk of not surviving.

If you survive the complacency phase, you end up being a wise and safe worker, with safety so ingrained that you don't have to consciously think about implementing safety. This group will probably continue to survive.

The kite stories related previously look to be examples of  being oblivious to the hazards. Taking out the power for the neighborhood probably was an "AHA!" moment.

Teenage boys live in the midrange of having some experience, and not understanding the dangers that they are exposing themselves to, or just going with the Superman mindset that nothing will ever hurt me.

Mortality for teenage boys due to stupid activities and workers that have been on the job for a few years is high due to the lack of attention on safety. The job hazard analysis cards are a means to try and get people to stop and think about the hazards present.

Both Mark and Joe, I thank you for posting your "Boy was I dumb!" stories. They give real world examples of what can happen when you don't stop and think about the "What if..." situations.

Where I am headed with this? The next time you start a task, whether it is your next HAB flight, or just cleaning out the gutters. Take a little bit of time to stop and think through the task, and the things you are going to be doing. Think about the hazards, and what you can do to mitigate those hazards. If you are working with others, take time to just talk your way through the tasks so everyone thinks about what could go wrong and how to deal with it.

Everyone will benefit by reducing the chances of injury, or loss. 

Nope, I'm not trying to call anyone stupid, but we all can look back at things we have done, and find actions that we have done that with hindsight can easily be classified as "stupid".

You should get to the point where you automatically stop and think about all of the components of your task, and do a hazard analysis out of habit.

Wisdom is probably just a lifetime of learning to mitigate risk... that's why it's always associated with the more senior members of society. If you've lived that long, you've probably learned how not to kill you self by being stupid.

I'm guessing that most of us on this reflector can claim at least a little bit of wisdom gained from surviving our own stupidity in our younger years.

James
VE6SRV




Joe WB9SBD
 

Found the spec's

11/16/2020AC 70/7460-1M48CHAPTER 12. MARKING AND LIGHTING MOORED BALLOONS AND KITES

12.1
Purpose.The purpose of marking and lighting moored balloons, kites, and their cables or mooring lines is to indicate the presence and general definition of these objects to pilots when approaching from any direction.

12.2Standards.These marking and lighting standards pertain to all moored balloons and kites that require marking and lighting under 14 CFR, Part 101.

12.3Marking.Flag markers should be used on mooring lines to warn pilots of their presence during daylight hours.

1.
Display. Markers should be displayed at no more than 50-foot (15.24 m) intervals and should be visible for at least 1 SM (1.61 km).

2.
Shape. Markers should be rectangular in shape and not less than 2 feet (0.61 m) in length. Stiffeners should be used in the borders to expose a large area and to prevent drooping in calm wind or wrapping around the cable.

3.Color Patterns. One of the following color patterns should be used:
a.
Solid Color. Aviation orange.
b.
Orange and White.
Two triangular sections, one of aviation orange and the other white,
combined to form a rectangle.

12.4Purpose.Flashing obstruction lights should be used on moored balloons or kites and their mooring lines to warn pilots of their presence during the hours between sunset and sunrise and during periods of reduced visibility. These lights may be operated 24 hours a day.

1.Systems. Flashing red (L-864) or medium-intensity white lights (L-865) may be used to light moored balloons or kites. High-intensity lights (L-856) are not recommended.

2.
Display. Simultaneously flashing lights should be displayed on the top, nose, and tail sections, as well as the tether cable approximately 15 feet (4.57 m) below the craft to define the extremes of size and shape. Additional lights should be equally spaced along the cable’s overall length for each 350 feet (106.68 m), or fraction thereof.

Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 11:54 AM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:
Very well written James,

OK, Now thinking of a Moored Balloon.

We were thinking of using a balloon to make an elevated 5/8 wave vertical for 160 meters.
Just to play with, an elevated one with drooping radials. 4 of them so should work like crazy.

Now It passes the 101.13 no problem, it won't get above 500 feet.

OK 101.15
That should not be a problem. Now I wonder if an actual ATC contact is needed or if a NOTAM meets this requirement?

Now this one might be a problem,
101.17
Daytime not a problem, but night time hmmmmm?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 11:42 AM, James Ewen VE6SRV wrote:
The FAR regulations are pretty straightforward and easy to follow. 

From the stories relayed thus far, it sounds like every one of the regulations for moored flight have been broken.

The reason you don't fly mega-long wires is because of the chance of crossing high voltage lines and causing blackouts, fires, and other assorted destruction.

Rules are written down and put into place because you have to legislate stupidity...

Yeah, that's harsh... I'm not calling those who have posted their stories stupid, but we all can probably provide tales of our own stupid actions. I know I have participated in many stupid activities myself.

What seemed like a great idea at the time, when looked back with the perspective of time and wisdom, one can wonder how we survived our youth. I have more than enough examples of my own stupidity, and wonder how I managed to survive this long.

We look at many rules and regulations, and wonder "Why do they have to spell out things that are common sense?"

Well, for every rule out there, someone has probably died because of the thing the rule forbids. Why can't you fly a moored balloon in clouds? Planes fly in the air... Why put markers on the mooring line? Again, planes fly in the air.

You can come up with a reason for each rule that is in place. Sometimes you just have to stop and think.

Job Hazard Analysis check sheets are common in the workplace these days. You are required to write down what you are doing, break it down into tasks, then you think about the hazards associated with the task, and determine how to complete the task safely.

Many groups are moving to Hydrogen as a lift gas. In doing so, you need to stop and think about the hazards associated, and put into place practices and procedures to ensure safety.

You will find a common issue with any hazardous task.

There are those who are oblivious to the hazard present because they haven't even thought about the possibility of hazards. This group is at risk, they may survive their actions.

Newbies are super cautious, afraid of the task and hazards present perhaps. They probably will survive their actions.

As you gain more experience, you start to become comfortable, maybe to the point where you start to forget some safety concerns. This group are at risk of not surviving.

If you survive the complacency phase, you end up being a wise and safe worker, with safety so ingrained that you don't have to consciously think about implementing safety. This group will probably continue to survive.

The kite stories related previously look to be examples of  being oblivious to the hazards. Taking out the power for the neighborhood probably was an "AHA!" moment.

Teenage boys live in the midrange of having some experience, and not understanding the dangers that they are exposing themselves to, or just going with the Superman mindset that nothing will ever hurt me.

Mortality for teenage boys due to stupid activities and workers that have been on the job for a few years is high due to the lack of attention on safety. The job hazard analysis cards are a means to try and get people to stop and think about the hazards present.

Both Mark and Joe, I thank you for posting your "Boy was I dumb!" stories. They give real world examples of what can happen when you don't stop and think about the "What if..." situations.

Where I am headed with this? The next time you start a task, whether it is your next HAB flight, or just cleaning out the gutters. Take a little bit of time to stop and think through the task, and the things you are going to be doing. Think about the hazards, and what you can do to mitigate those hazards. If you are working with others, take time to just talk your way through the tasks so everyone thinks about what could go wrong and how to deal with it.

Everyone will benefit by reducing the chances of injury, or loss. 

Nope, I'm not trying to call anyone stupid, but we all can look back at things we have done, and find actions that we have done that with hindsight can easily be classified as "stupid".

You should get to the point where you automatically stop and think about all of the components of your task, and do a hazard analysis out of habit.

Wisdom is probably just a lifetime of learning to mitigate risk... that's why it's always associated with the more senior members of society. If you've lived that long, you've probably learned how not to kill you self by being stupid.

I'm guessing that most of us on this reflector can claim at least a little bit of wisdom gained from surviving our own stupidity in our younger years.

James
VE6SRV





Hank Riley
 



That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD


Joe WB9SBD
 

?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD



Garrett, Mark
 


On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD





--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA


Joe WB9SBD
 

he eh eh,
51 pounds..

Joe

On 5/16/2021 3:19 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD





--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA



Garrett, Mark
 

Not to mention the cable to connect and the controller at the bottom.

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 3:43 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
he eh eh,
51 pounds..

Joe

On 5/16/2021 3:19 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD







--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA


Joe WB9SBD
 

We have to be missing something.

Like size weight stuff like with the free balloons.

Something to do with the below 500 feet nothing matters or something, because so far the way this is worded it is impossible to do a tethered balloon or a kite.

something we are missing... I have a guy on a net tonight that is a flight school teacher. he has been doing it since the 70's gonna see what he thinks.

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/16/2021 3:48 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:
Not to mention the cable to connect and the controller at the bottom.

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 3:43 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
he eh eh,
51 pounds..

Joe

On 5/16/2021 3:19 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD







--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA



Joe WB9SBD
 

I think I just found it, I knew something wasn't making any sense.

Go to this page

https://www.stratoballooning.org/part-101-rules

Ignore, 1, 2, 3, for now and read #4,

this is all what we are familiar with the 6 pound rule etc. under 6 pounds and 101 really doesn't apply/...

Now go back and read #1
Looks like if the balloon is less than 6 feet in diameter or 115 cuft in volume, this is then just like the under 6 pound rule and 101 does not apply.

am I reading this correctly?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/16/2021 3:53 PM, Joe wrote:
We have to be missing something.

Like size weight stuff like with the free balloons.

Something to do with the below 500 feet nothing matters or something, because so far the way this is worded it is impossible to do a tethered balloon or a kite.

something we are missing... I have a guy on a net tonight that is a flight school teacher. he has been doing it since the 70's gonna see what he thinks.

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/16/2021 3:48 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:
Not to mention the cable to connect and the controller at the bottom.

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 3:43 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
he eh eh,
51 pounds..

Joe

On 5/16/2021 3:19 PM, Garrett, Mark wrote:

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
?

Joe WB9SBD

On 5/15/2021 2:13 PM, Hank Riley via groups.io wrote:


That was easy to find, but this is all hot air because Joe, you ain't going to be doing aircraft obstruction lighting at night as is required by the FAA standards.


Now to find the spec's of a L-864 or L-865 lights are.
Joe WB9SBD







--
Mark Garrett
Tri States Public Radio
WIUM Macomb, IL
WIUW Warsaw, IL
WVKC Galesburg, IL
K292GR Burlington, IA