Date   
Re: Flight Predictor help

Keith Kaiser, WA0̷TJT
 

Thank you Paul.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT


, one finger at a time.

On 4 Aug 2013, at 11:09, "L. Paul Verhage" <nearsys@...> wrote:

 

Agreed, the heat production drops off as the altitude increases. However, the hand warmer added a lot of thermal energy to the camera prior to launch. So it takes longer for the camera to cool down. Plus, the hand warmer still produces heat, but at a diminishing rate that helps offset the cooling rate.

We have a situation were the tempetature starts out higher and the cooling rate is slower. The result is a camera that remains warmer.

A recent NearSys test indicated the interior of a BalloonSat remained 10 degrees warmer. Let me see if I cab dig up the data. Otherwise I will do a proper controlled experiment.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:59 AM, "Joe" <nss@...> wrote:
Don't forget most hand warmers need O2 to operate, so once high enough that the O2 level is down,, so will the heat being generated.

And i agree 100% on the window, Don't use it, the moisture needs to be able to evaporate away.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/4/2013 10:22 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:


I recommend leaving the cover off the camera, especially off the lens. Near space is very dry, there is no condensation if the air is allowed to reach the lens.

The intense cold will cause any moisture trapped in front of the lens to condense. If you really need to cover the lens with a window, then you will need to heat the lens above the dew point.

The camera shouldn't need a window over the lens. If cold is an issue, then I recommend placing a chemical hand warmer on the back of the camera an hour prior to launch. That warms the camera, requiring more time for it to cool down significantly. Also, the hand warmer will produce a diminishing amount of warm during the ascent to offset the cooling air.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:11 AM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:


Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>










Re: Flight Predictor help

Keith Kaiser, WA0̷TJT
 

Tyler, Paul is a PHd in Physics... Like many on the GPSL eMail list. Again I encourage you to join.


, one finger at a time.

On 4 Aug 2013, at 11:09, "L. Paul Verhage" <nearsys@...> wrote:

 

Agreed, the heat production drops off as the altitude increases. However, the hand warmer added a lot of thermal energy to the camera prior to launch. So it takes longer for the camera to cool down. Plus, the hand warmer still produces heat, but at a diminishing rate that helps offset the cooling rate.

We have a situation were the tempetature starts out higher and the cooling rate is slower. The result is a camera that remains warmer.

A recent NearSys test indicated the interior of a BalloonSat remained 10 degrees warmer. Let me see if I cab dig up the data. Otherwise I will do a proper controlled experiment.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:59 AM, "Joe" <nss@...> wrote:
Don't forget most hand warmers need O2 to operate, so once high enough that the O2 level is down,, so will the heat being generated.

And i agree 100% on the window, Don't use it, the moisture needs to be able to evaporate away.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/4/2013 10:22 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:


I recommend leaving the cover off the camera, especially off the lens. Near space is very dry, there is no condensation if the air is allowed to reach the lens.

The intense cold will cause any moisture trapped in front of the lens to condense. If you really need to cover the lens with a window, then you will need to heat the lens above the dew point.

The camera shouldn't need a window over the lens. If cold is an issue, then I recommend placing a chemical hand warmer on the back of the camera an hour prior to launch. That warms the camera, requiring more time for it to cool down significantly. Also, the hand warmer will produce a diminishing amount of warm during the ascent to offset the cooling air.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:11 AM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:


Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>










Re: Flight Predictor help

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

Agreed, the heat production drops off as the altitude increases. However, the hand warmer added a lot of thermal energy to the camera prior to launch. So it takes longer for the camera to cool down. Plus, the hand warmer still produces heat, but at a diminishing rate that helps offset the cooling rate.

We have a situation were the tempetature starts out higher and the cooling rate is slower. The result is a camera that remains warmer.

A recent NearSys test indicated the interior of a BalloonSat remained 10 degrees warmer. Let me see if I cab dig up the data. Otherwise I will do a proper controlled experiment.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:59 AM, "Joe" <nss@...> wrote:
Don't forget most hand warmers need O2 to operate, so once high enough that the O2 level is down,, so will the heat being generated.

And i agree 100% on the window, Don't use it, the moisture needs to be able to evaporate away.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/4/2013 10:22 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:


I recommend leaving the cover off the camera, especially off the lens. Near space is very dry, there is no condensation if the air is allowed to reach the lens.

The intense cold will cause any moisture trapped in front of the lens to condense. If you really need to cover the lens with a window, then you will need to heat the lens above the dew point.

The camera shouldn't need a window over the lens. If cold is an issue, then I recommend placing a chemical hand warmer on the back of the camera an hour prior to launch. That warms the camera, requiring more time for it to cool down significantly. Also, the hand warmer will produce a diminishing amount of warm during the ascent to offset the cooling air.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:11 AM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:


Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>










Re: Flight Predictor help

Joe WB9SBD
 

Don't forget most hand warmers need O2 to operate, so once high enough that the O2 level is down,, so will the heat being generated.

And i agree 100% on the window, Don't use it, the moisture needs to be able to evaporate away.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/4/2013 10:22 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:

I recommend leaving the cover off the camera, especially off the lens. Near space is very dry, there is no condensation if the air is allowed to reach the lens.

The intense cold will cause any moisture trapped in front of the lens to condense. If you really need to cover the lens with a window, then you will need to heat the lens above the dew point.

The camera shouldn't need a window over the lens. If cold is an issue, then I recommend placing a chemical hand warmer on the back of the camera an hour prior to launch. That warms the camera, requiring more time for it to cool down significantly. Also, the hand warmer will produce a diminishing amount of warm during the ascent to offset the cooling air.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:11 AM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:


Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


Sent from my iPad, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>








Re: Flight Predictor help

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I recommend leaving the cover off the camera, especially off the lens. Near space is very dry, there is no condensation if the air is allowed to reach the lens.

The intense cold will cause any moisture trapped in front of the lens to condense. If you really need to cover the lens with a window, then you will need to heat the lens above the dew point.

The camera shouldn't need a window over the lens. If cold is an issue, then I recommend placing a chemical hand warmer on the back of the camera an hour prior to launch. That warms the camera, requiring more time for it to cool down significantly. Also, the hand warmer will produce a diminishing amount of warm during the ascent to offset the cooling air.

Paul

On Aug 4, 2013 9:11 AM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:


Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>







Flight Predictor help

Keith Kaiser, WA0̷TJT
 

Guys?


, one finger at a time.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...>
Date: 4 August 2013 08:56:50 CDT
To: Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...>
Subject: Re: Flight Predictor help

Hi Keith, 

quick question on fogging cameras...we are using gopro cameras and tests have shown to fog in the casing even when we use anit-fog inserts and anti-fog gel. We are using heat packs that are not oxygen required. Have you had good experience with preventing a camera from fogging up?

Tyler


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Great...thanks again Keith

On Jun 17, 2013 1:02 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Keep the SPOT but get yourself a TinyTracker as well. They are inexpensive and all the groups use them. Just Google the name. In the mean time you could join the GPSL mail list and ask the same question there. These guys are the worlds experts at HAB if they don't know the answer no one does.

Go to superlaunch.org for a link to join the mailing list.


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:42, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Right now im using a gps SPOT which does not record altitude.....i was looking for an altimeter to log how high our project will go. Wondering if there might be one out there that would have a usb port to plug in after.the flight.

On Jun 17, 2013 12:21 PM, "Keith Kaiser" <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Hmmm, not off hand. But your GPS will almost certainly give you a better readying than an altimeter anyway. Or do you have something special in mind that requires one? 


, one finger at a time.

On 17 Jun 2013, at 13:18, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith, 

do you have any recommendations or links for altimeters? 


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Your welcome. I'm glad it was something simple. Now be sure to go to http://www.arhab.org/hab_launch_form.php and list your flight so the rest of us can enjoy watching.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 12:57, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

that was it.....thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm excited for our launch from UT. 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
You can put anything you want into the call sign field. But yes I think that might be the problem. Give it a try.



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 11:06, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Keith....thank you so  much for taking the time to do this....you are the man. I'm sure its something that I am not entering correctly or not entering at all. attach is a pdf

I noticed that i had not entered a call sign, could that be it? 






On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
Send me a snapshot of the data entry form filled out. Ill run it too and see if I can figure out what went wrong. We're in Pella, IA this weekend attending the GPSL so its a great time to look-see.

73's -- Keith, WA0TJT



, one finger at a time.

On 14 Jun 2013, at 09:21, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

Hi Keith, thank you for the reply. 

I have done each of those steps you listed. As far as I can tell what is not happening is when I select the "Plot Track on Google Maps" I am in fact being taken to the google map page, but when I zoom into my launching point I do not see a red line or blue line showing any path at all. Do I still need to do another step that will cause the predicted flight path to show? 

Tyler


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
I need a little more description of what you did before I can say what went wrong.
1) After entering flight details, you should have seen a NWS Screen.
2) Here you would enter a date and time and a capcha code for NWS
3) On the next page you needed to copy the left side into the right side
3) Submitting this will bring you to a screen asking you what you want to see.
4) Selecting show on Google maps should take you to a map page

What is not happening?


, one finger at a time.

On 13 Jun 2013, at 17:34, Tyler Fish <fishtyler@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have attempted to use the flight predictor, but after I enter the information and hit the plot to google link I see the map, but no flight path anywhere. Am I doing something wrong? I am looking to launch in a week so your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you for your help
>
> Tyler
>





BASE 81 completed

BASE
 

Dear friends,

BASE 81 was successfully completed today.  We had a momentary delay at launch, when false lift was going to make for a very slow climb.  The additional fill lead to a nominal ascent rate.  Fortunately after burst, the balloon ensnared the parachute and most of the payloads resulting in a fifteen minute descent into the edge of an open field.  A normal descent would have greatly increased the likelihood of landing in trees.

The crossband repeater was very busy with contacts made from over 300 miles.

The SSTV yielded good images for some of the flight, although I did not monitor that frequency at the launch site.  We believe that the camera and Baofeng radio did not operate for the entire flight, although the battery voltages were still acceptable post-flight.

Thanks to all those that helped with this project for the Scouts, especially Bill WB8ELK, Jeff KC9QCD, Mark KA9SZX, Rob N9RIX, Lenny KC9QAK, Richard K9LIU, Wayne AB9FJ, Trey KC9QOV, Jay KC9QOW, and Mark KC9DUU.

It has been a busy summer.  I don't think we will fly again until the fall.

Thanks for your support,
Howard

Re: UMICH-2 floater headed ENE towards Atlantic

Mike Manes
 

Hi folks,

Just got this announcement, posted over 24 hrs ago. Perchance
there's an I-gate out in the NE US who can tune to 433.65?

73 de Mike W5VSI

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: UMICH-2 floater headed ENE towards Atlantic
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 01:59:52 -0400
From: Benjamin Longmier <longmier@...>
To: Mike Manes <mrmanes@...>



call sign: KF5KMP-1 on 433.650MHz


Regards,
Ben

Benjamin Longmier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Michigan
3017 FXB Building
1320 Beal Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>


On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 1:58 AM, Benjamin Longmier <longmier@...
<mailto:longmier@...>> wrote:

Mike,
We just launched a floater. We were using some other GPS units, but
also threw on an APRS transmitter (Big Red Bee brand) at 433.650
MHz. Just wondering if you might spread the word a bit.
thanks!


Regards,
Ben

Benjamin Longmier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Michigan
3017 FXB Building
1320 Beal Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>


On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...>> wrote:

de nada. Hope that post gets the word out before you go out of
range.

There are a few 144.39 I-gates in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia
Newfoundland, which your current course appears to aimed at.

73 de Mike W5VSI


On 1/20/13 6:34 PM, Benjamin Longmier wrote:

Thanks Mike.


Regards,
Ben

Benjamin Longmier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Michigan
3053 FXB Building
1320 Beal Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>


On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Mike Manes
<mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>
<mailto:mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>>> wrote:

Hi Ben,

OK, I see UMICH-2 now at 61K' about 40 mi N of Albany
NY headed
ENE at >100 MPH.

You should have no problems getting I-gated beacons
from US & CN
stations that are tuned to 144.390 MHz (which is where
your VHF
beacon is operating, I assume). But once you pass
about 300 mi
offshore, you'll be out of range from I-gates on that
freq, and
you'll have to hold your peace until it comes within
range of
an EU I-gate tuned to that freq.

So I've cc'ed arhabflights and GPSL on this reply in
hopes that
some hams on the other side of pond will be expecting
your arrival
tomorrow sometime.

GL es 73 de Mike W5VSI, EOSS

On 1/20/13 4:52 PM, Benjamin Longmier wrote:

Mike,
I don;t see it listed, but I just tried to list the
mission with
arhad.org <http://arhad.org> <http://arhad.org>
<http://arhad.org>.


We certainly need help with receiving packets in
Maine, New
Brunswick,
Nova Scotia, and the Azores for tonight and tomorrow.


Regards,
Ben

Benjamin Longmier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Michigan
3053 FXB Building
1320 Beal Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792> <tel:734-764-6792
<tel:734-764-6792>>



On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Mike Manes
<mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>
<mailto:mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>>
<mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...> <mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...>>>> wrote:

Hi Ben,

Yeah, I was tracking UMICH-1 on aprs.fi
<http://aprs.fi> <http://aprs.fi>
<http://aprs.fi> yesterday
and saw it go QRT just
before landfall approaching Ft Drum NY. Seems
it came
alive again today
over Maine, but still at 61K'. Could be a
thermal issue
with the beacon
electronics. Bill Brown has found that the
small-geometry
bubble wrap
works quite well for thermal insulation as
well as mechanical
protection. Some of his HF tracking beacons
are just raw
PC boards
wrapped in a couple of layers of that stuff,
secured with
duct tape.

Both of K6RPT's transoceanic flights used
Chinese Hwoyee
1600 gm
balloons with just 50-60 gm or so excess lift,
and they
flew over 2
days. We've wondered what the "magic" is with
the Hwoyee
balloons,
other than using natural latex rather than
Totex's neoprene.

Note also that Ron's balloons floated at about
110K' MSL in
December,
where there are >100 MPH westerly winds. This
is well
above the
tropopause and the jet stream that are well
instrumented by
NWS and
the GFS models.

His first one, that landed in the Med just N
of Algeria, was
picked up by ham station in the Azores, and
thence by one
in Portugal
and a couple more in Spain. Note that 144.34
MHz is >not<
the APRS
backbone in Europe, and those stations got
word of the
flight via the
APRS email reflector and retuned accordingly -
yet another
benefit of
getting your launch announcements out on
arhab.org <http://arhab.org>
<http://arhab.org> <http://arhab.org>.


Good luck with your long-haul attempts!

73 de Mike W5VSI


On 1/20/13 9:52 AM, Benjamin Longmier wrote:

Mike,

The launch last night was an underfilled
2000g latex
balloon, I
have a
small company that sells these..they are a
bit thicker
than some
other
brands like Totex, which allows for some
unique things
like lower
altitude floaters. The total payload mass
was 640grams and
250grams net
lift. At night this resulted in
~61,000ft. We made it
to Maine, but
didn't hear from it after that...it's
probably over the
Azores
by now
(but I don't know any Hams that far out).

We'll probably go for a bit more lift with
UMICH-2 and
UMICH-3
today and
some beefed up battery heaters and higher
voltage. My
students
are all
quite excited!
regards,
Ben


On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Mike Manes
<mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>
<mailto:mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>>
<mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...> <mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...>>>
<mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...> <mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...>>
<mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...> <mailto:mrmanes@...
<mailto:mrmanes@...>>>>> wrote:

Thanks, Ben,
Looking good! Hope it works well,
and GL with the
-2 and -3
long haul flights!

What scheme (balloon type & fill) are
you using
for the
floaters?

73 de Mike W5VSI


On 1/19/13 4:26 PM, Benjamin Longmier
wrote:

Mike,

Just a heads-up. UMICH-1 is in
the air as of
10 minutes
ago.
This is a
calibration test for our two more
trans-Atlantic
attempts tomorrow
(UMICH-2 and UMICH-3).

Regards,
Ben

Benjamin Longmier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Michigan
3053 FXB Building
1320 Beal Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792> <tel:734-764-6792
<tel:734-764-6792>> <tel:734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>
<tel:734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>>>
<tel:734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792> <tel:734-764-6792
<tel:734-764-6792>>
<tel:734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>
<tel:734-764-6792 <tel:734-764-6792>>>>

ARHAB Stickers for Cars

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I purchased several vinyl bumper stickers that say ARHAB. If anyone would like one, they cost me $4.50. I will send one at cost plus shipping.

Attached is a picture of one of the stickers.

Paul

[UKHAS] Genome laser @ Burning man. High altitude balloon expertise needed!

Joe WB9SBD
 




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [UKHAS] Genome laser @ Burning man. High altitude balloon expertise needed!
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Charlesworth
Reply-To: ukhas@...
To: ukhas@...


We are projecting the human DNA through a laser at the burning man festival in Nevada this year through a 60w laser. This should be visible from upto 30km high due to using a really powerful laser. This in part to recognise the efforts of Dr Jonathan Rothberg who pioneered high speed genome sequencing. 

We would like some assistance with launching a high altitude balloon to film this laser DNA projection as well as the burning man from a top down view. At best, we hope to be able to view the laser projection from space. 

Given that no body in our engineering group has any experience with high altitude ballooning, Adam Cudworth kindly put me in touch with you to see if you may be able to assist us on this project. 

The burning man festival takes place in the Black Rock desert, Nevada, USA (at the end of August so not long away!). If any of you know some high altitude balloon experts/enthusiasts in California/Nevada or anywhere else for that matter who may already be planning to go to burning man, I would be ever grateful if you could put us in touch. 

If you would like to know more about this project, we were featured in the wired last week (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/26/genome-laser-burning-man) and also the Huffington post today. 

We will of course cover the costs associated with this project. 

Many thanks!

Joe Charlesworth
07545 961634

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GPSL 2014 Dates

Zack Clobes W0ZC
 

Thanks everyone for sending GPSL back to Hutchinson next year.  I'm starting to work on the plans and the first step is to set some dates.

The weekend of June 14 or June 21 is where I'm focusing.  Father's Day is on June 15 if that matters.

Please reply to this email if you have a strong opinion or objection either way.  I'm not sure about Thursday, but you can anticipate symposium on Friday, launch on Saturday with a rain date of Sunday.


Zack Clobes, W0ZC
Project: Traveler
www.projecttraveler.org

Re: Gold Fish in Near Space

Mike Manes
 

If you didn't notice the water boiling off, then you probably didn't
pull the air down below 100 mbar.

On 7/24/13 4:52 PM, Al Wolfe wrote:
We actually tried something like this in high school biology class in
about 1959. Put a goldfish in some water in a beaker under a bell jar.
Sucked it down and noticed the goldfish burping form time to time. When we
let the air back in the fish sank like a rock but then climbed to the
surface and gulped air. Happy ending - the fish survived.

Looking back it was a probably a silly experiment but we did learn
something about how a fish attains neutral buoyancy.

Today PETA or ASPCA would probably get rather upset about this sort of
experiment.

Al, K9SI



If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
pump.

73 de Mike W5VSI


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Gold Fish in Near Space

Al Wolfe
 

We actually tried something like this in high school biology class in about 1959. Put a goldfish in some water in a beaker under a bell jar. Sucked it down and noticed the goldfish burping form time to time. When we let the air back in the fish sank like a rock but then climbed to the surface and gulped air. Happy ending - the fish survived.

Looking back it was a probably a silly experiment but we did learn something about how a fish attains neutral buoyancy.

Today PETA or ASPCA would probably get rather upset about this sort of experiment.

Al, K9SI

If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
pump.

73 de Mike W5VSI

Re: Comet ISON observations by balloon

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

Sky and Telescope usually posts mpas to viewing things like comets. Here's a guide for early December.
 
 
The launch will need to be an early morning launch.
 
Paul


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mark Conner <mconner1@...> wrote:


Ah, some decent sky maps available with a Google image search.  This one is more cartoonish but helpful:


Here's an assessment of ISON's fate later this year:

I'm a little pessimistic of getting a good capture from an ordinary digital camera based on this, but might be worth a shot.  Having some pre-dawn imagery might be fun for a change, virtually all of the NSTAR camera missions have been some time after sunrise.

- Mark


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Mark Conner <mconner1@...> wrote:
http://www.space.com/20837-comet-ison-balloon-mission.html

Might be interesting to do some ARHAB flights in early December to see if this comet can be captured by regular cameras.  We can regularly see the moon in our photos if it's nearly full and close enough to the horizon during the flight (typically in the waning gibbous phase).

Does anyone have a sky map showing ISON's position with time after perhelion?  You'd have to make sure the camera angle above the horizon is compatible with the comet's expected position.  

73 de Mark N9XTN






--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul

Lost Near Spacecraft in Kansas

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

The balloon I launched today for the KU Engineering Summer Camp stopped transmitting at burst. We launched a second balloon with this one. Taking that one as a model, it appears mine near spacecraft would have landed about 5 miles north of the US 59 highway 52 junction.
 
Does anyone know of someone who flies around that area that could be on the look out for a yellow and black parachute?
 
I'm attaching the maps of both flights so anyone can compare and see if they agree with my prediction.
 
Both flights ascended at around 1,000 feet per minute. My balloon (KD4STH-7) burst at 90,000 feet and the KU balloon (KI4GKU-10) burst at 102,000 feet.

--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul

NSTAR Flight 13-B photos posted

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

Photos from this past weekend's NSTAR Flight 13-B are available at https://picasaweb.google.com/111334632256807627139/NSTAR13BGroundPhotos and https://picasaweb.google.com/111334632256807627139/NSTAR13BAerialPhotos .

73 de Mark N9XTN

Re: Gold Fish in Near Space

Mike Manes
 

If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
pump.

73 de Mike W5VSI

On 7/23/13 7:42 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:


Mark mentioned that our high school teachers launched goldfish in their
BalloonSat. I was concerned about their survival chances, but glad to
see that it ended well.
This has me thinking. I was concerned that the water would lose
dissolved oxygen as the balloon ascended. The bottle had an air space
above the water and apparently was air tight enough that the air didn't
leak out so fish could continue to breathe.
I wasn't concerned about the temperature since the water has a large
thermal interia and would take too long to cool down significantly. I
also wasn't concerned about the BPC since the fish are nearly
neutrally bouyant in water. I think that means the fish will ride out
the motion of the water bottle without being slammed against the walls
of the water bottle.
Does my reasoning sound correct? The fish are safe from getting too cold
and safe from being slammed around the bottle. Their largest risk comes
from the water losing oxygen.

--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul


Re: Gold Fish in Near Space

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I think I would like to video tape (tape, does that date me?) the fish in their water bottle. I get concerned this would become a snuff film if the fish were to die, but to see how they respond to the flight could be interesting.
 
so it sounds like we want to oxygenate the water as much as possible before launch and then seal the bottle tight.
 
Perhaps a first experiment would be to measure the dissolved oxygen before and after flight with different bottle configuations.
 
Paul


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Michael Willett <mw@...> wrote:
I would think all your assumptions would be right except the PBC. While it is a captive system, the acceleration forces would be transmitted in tact to the fish as water is nearly non-compressible. However, mass of the water and springy lines and air being very compressible would likely not yield enough G force to hurt the fish. The amount of air in the captive system contains the fish is not on your side however, less air space in the tank would be best. If you highly aerated the water and left very little air space in the tank, I think that would be best. 

--Michael



On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:42 AM, "L. Paul Verhage" <nearsys@...> wrote:

 

Mark mentioned that our high school teachers launched goldfish in their BalloonSat. I was concerned about their survival chances, but glad to see that it ended well.
 
This has me thinking. I was concerned that the water would lose dissolved oxygen as the balloon ascended. The bottle had an air space above the water and apparently was air tight enough that the air didn't leak out so fish could continue to breathe.
 
I wasn't concerned about the temperature since the water has a large thermal interia and would take too long to cool down significantly. I also wasn't concerned about the BPC since the fish are nearly neutrally bouyant in water. I think that means the fish will ride out the motion of the water bottle without being slammed against the walls of the water bottle.
 
Does my reasoning sound correct? The fish are safe from getting too cold and safe from being slammed around the bottle. Their largest risk comes from the water losing oxygen.  

--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul




--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul

Re: Gold Fish in Near Space

Michael
 

I would think all your assumptions would be right except the PBC. While it is a captive system, the acceleration forces would be transmitted in tact to the fish as water is nearly non-compressible. However, mass of the water and springy lines and air being very compressible would likely not yield enough G force to hurt the fish. The amount of air in the captive system contains the fish is not on your side however, less air space in the tank would be best. If you highly aerated the water and left very little air space in the tank, I think that would be best. 

--Michael



On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:42 AM, "L. Paul Verhage" <nearsys@...> wrote:

 

Mark mentioned that our high school teachers launched goldfish in their BalloonSat. I was concerned about their survival chances, but glad to see that it ended well.
 
This has me thinking. I was concerned that the water would lose dissolved oxygen as the balloon ascended. The bottle had an air space above the water and apparently was air tight enough that the air didn't leak out so fish could continue to breathe.
 
I wasn't concerned about the temperature since the water has a large thermal interia and would take too long to cool down significantly. I also wasn't concerned about the BPC since the fish are nearly neutrally bouyant in water. I think that means the fish will ride out the motion of the water bottle without being slammed against the walls of the water bottle.
 
Does my reasoning sound correct? The fish are safe from getting too cold and safe from being slammed around the bottle. Their largest risk comes from the water losing oxygen.  

--
Onwards and Upwards,
Paul

Gold Fish in Near Space

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

Mark mentioned that our high school teachers launched goldfish in their BalloonSat. I was concerned about their survival chances, but glad to see that it ended well.
 
This has me thinking. I was concerned that the water would lose dissolved oxygen as the balloon ascended. The bottle had an air space above the water and apparently was air tight enough that the air didn't leak out so fish could continue to breathe.
 
I wasn't concerned about the temperature since the water has a large thermal interia and would take too long to cool down significantly. I also wasn't concerned about the BPC since the fish are nearly neutrally bouyant in water. I think that means the fish will ride out the motion of the water bottle without being slammed against the walls of the water bottle.
 
Does my reasoning sound correct? The fish are safe from getting too cold and safe from being slammed around the bottle. Their largest risk comes from the water losing oxygen.  

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Onwards and Upwards,
Paul