Date   
Hi everybody

Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
 

Just wanted to say hi to every and start the list discussion.

First thing we should get a handle on is what sort of payloads
are available that people want to fly. I'll start off.........

NSTAR can fly a combination of the following:

1) Primary APRS: 2m only, VFO, time slot capable
2) Backup APRS: 2m or 70cm, VFO, time slot capable
3) Simplex repeater: 2m or 70cm, VFO
4) Cross-band repeater (W0RPK's): 70cm up/2m down or vice versa,
VFO, APRS MIM on downlink, data not slotted
5) Camcorder: VHS-C, 2 hour of video, manually started before
launch
6) Still camera (maybe, awaiting time to modify and test)

My preference is to fly 1, 2, and 5. I think 1, 4, and 5 is too
much weight, but I'll figure that out soon. If someone else
flies a camcorder, I could do 1 and 4. 6 will fly with 1 if it's
ready regardless.

If the others can chime in here, we'll get on our way.

73 de Mark N9XTN

------
Mark D. Conner
E-mail: n9xtn@...
Homepage: http://members.cox.net/mconner1
"Arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package.....how
efficient of you!" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

GPSL Proceedings

paul.verhage@...
 

I need to know if presenters will have written notes for me to
publish. So far no presenter has given me notice. I'd like to make
a copy of every presenter's notes available to attendees. I'll take
care of the photocopying and binding.

Please let me know if you'll have notes for me to publish.

Paul

FW: TVNSP payloads

Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: <VERHAP@...>
To: "Mark Conner" <mconner1@...>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 18:30
Subject: GPSL


Mark, I can see GPSL messages.

Here's my input.

I plan to fly a capsule with KPC 3+, time slotted every 15
seconds.
I'll send the following sentences, GGA,RMC, PGRMV, and flight
computer messages. Currently I transmit at 0, 15, 30, and 45
seconds. I will change this if necessary.

I'd like to carry a repeater (440?), APS camera, possibly a
camcorder, and light and temperature sensors. I plan to use
the
camcorder to record the effects of near space on items, not so
much for recording other capsules.

I need to find out who needs helium.
I also ned to find out what AV equipment people need.

Starting 5 June, I'll be on vacation in Yosemite and the Grand
Canyon. I'll be back for one week before heading out to
Kansas.
Along the way I'll visit the Stratobowl and SD air and Space
Museum. I'll bring a cell phone, so if there's a group
call-in, I
should be able to make it (unless I have to call from the
bottom of
the Grand Canyon).

Please pass on this message.
Thanks,
Paul

Frequency Coordination

paul.verhage@...
 

Packet, ATV, and Repeaters, Oh My!

It looks like we're going to have more transmissions coming out of
Manhattan on 6 July than NSA HQ. To prevent near space
capsules from stepping on each other, we'll start a table of
frequencies, powers, times, and modes.

I'll need a coordinator to keep track of this. Mark, can you do that?
All communications about this topic are to be sent to the list.
Once the table is put together, it will go out to subscribers for their
review. Please don't make comments about selected frequencies
until after the final table it put together and emailed. After that,
please look them over and look for potential problems.

To all program managers,
Please email current transmission information to
gpsl@... in this format.

Subject line for email: Frequency Plan

Please organize the text of your message as follows.

Program or capsule name
Mode Power Frequency Time

For example,

TVNSP
Packet 340mW 144.390 0, 15, 30, and 45 seconds

If you're flying a dual-band repeater, please post both frequencies
and indicate which is the uplink and downlink frequency.

In Manhattan, there's not a lot of APRS traffic. Unfortunately, not
long after we launch, we'll run into traffic from KC. In KC there's
lots of APRS traffic. So GPSL will move off the standard APRS
frequency (144.390). Mark suggested a frequency, but I managed
to lose it. I'll get back with you on the proper APRS frequency.

Chase Frequencies
At the launch site and for what I think will be most of the chase,
we'll use the Manhattan repeater. If we get close to Topeka or
Lawrence, we'll switch to one of their repeaters. A near space
repeater will be avaiable during the chase. We may go to simplex
during portions of the recovery. I'll post the Topeka and Lawrence
frequencies shortly. For simplex, I'd like select a 2m and 440
frequency that are easy to remember, perhaps the call-in
frequencies. Those too will be posted shortly.

Thanks,
Paul

Frequency Plan

kd7lmo <mgray@...>
 

Because of the number of balloon launching from GPSL and possible
interference with local repeaters, I've started to put together a
frequency plan. The list is posted in the files section. I will be
happy to maintain it and add other groups to the list. So far I've
added our group, ANSR - Arizona Near Space Research.

We will fly a cross band repeater that can be used by the tracking
teams.

Re: Frequency Coordination

mgray@...
 

Paul,

Not sure if you saw my message from last week, but I already started
the frequency list. It is posted in the Files sections. If you want
Mark to track the frequencies, let me know and I'll assign the file
to him.

73s de Michael Gray, kd7lmo

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Packet, ATV, and Repeaters, Oh My!

It looks like we're going to have more transmissions coming out of
Manhattan on 6 July than NSA HQ. To prevent near space
capsules from stepping on each other, we'll start a table of
frequencies, powers, times, and modes.

I'll need a coordinator to keep track of this. Mark, can you do that?
All communications about this topic are to be sent to the list.
Once the table is put together, it will go out to subscribers for their
review. Please don't make comments about selected frequencies
until after the final table it put together and emailed. After that,
please look them over and look for potential problems.

To all program managers,
Please email current transmission information to
gpsl@... in this format.

Subject line for email: Frequency Plan

Please organize the text of your message as follows.

Program or capsule name
Mode Power Frequency Time

For example,

TVNSP
Packet 340mW 144.390 0, 15, 30, and 45 seconds

If you're flying a dual-band repeater, please post both frequencies
and indicate which is the uplink and downlink frequency.

In Manhattan, there's not a lot of APRS traffic. Unfortunately, not
long after we launch, we'll run into traffic from KC. In KC there's
lots of APRS traffic. So GPSL will move off the standard APRS
frequency (144.390). Mark suggested a frequency, but I managed
to lose it. I'll get back with you on the proper APRS frequency.

Chase Frequencies
At the launch site and for what I think will be most of the chase,
we'll use the Manhattan repeater. If we get close to Topeka or
Lawrence, we'll switch to one of their repeaters. A near space
repeater will be avaiable during the chase. We may go to simplex
during portions of the recovery. I'll post the Topeka and Lawrence
frequencies shortly. For simplex, I'd like select a 2m and 440
frequency that are easy to remember, perhaps the call-in
frequencies. Those too will be posted shortly.

Thanks,
Paul







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Re: Frequency Coordination

paul.verhage@...
 

I saw your file. I didn't realize I was assigning a task already
started. If yopu don't mind, I'd like to forward that to Mark. We'll
add one more item to the list. We need to find out who can
change frequencies if there is a problem.

Paul

Paul,

Not sure if you saw my message from last week, but I already started
the frequency list. It is posted in the Files sections. If you want
Mark to track the frequencies, let me know and I'll assign the file
to him.

Re: Frequency Coordination

Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
 

I can keep track of the various modes, frequencies, etc. I've
gotten some input from Mike KD0FW off-list for his payload(s). I
looked at KD7LMO's inputs in the files area.

I had previously suggested everyone having a slotted beacon on
144.34 MHz for mutual chase support if possible.

Also, when people submit their inputs, please indicate if you're
frequency-agile and to what extent (crystalled, VFO 70cm only,
VFO 2/70, etc). That will help us decide how much people can
compromise on their "favorite" frequencies should we need to make
adjustments.

I'm not sure if the egroups.com address will work - if not, the
correct address is gpsl@....

73 de Mark N9XTN

----- Original Message -----
From: <paul.verhage@...>
To: <GPSL@...>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 12:47
Subject: [GPSL] Frequency Coordination


Packet, ATV, and Repeaters, Oh My!

It looks like we're going to have more transmissions coming out
of
Manhattan on 6 July than NSA HQ. To prevent near space
capsules from stepping on each other, we'll start a table of
frequencies, powers, times, and modes.

I'll need a coordinator to keep track of this. Mark, can you
do that?
All communications about this topic are to be sent to the
list.
Once the table is put together, it will go out to subscribers
for their
review. Please don't make comments about selected frequencies
until after the final table it put together and emailed. After
that,
please look them over and look for potential problems.

To all program managers,
Please email current transmission information to
gpsl@... in this format.

Subject line for email: Frequency Plan

Please organize the text of your message as follows.

Program or capsule name
Mode Power Frequency Time

For example,

TVNSP
Packet 340mW 144.390 0, 15, 30, and 45 seconds

If you're flying a dual-band repeater, please post both
frequencies
and indicate which is the uplink and downlink frequency.

In Manhattan, there's not a lot of APRS traffic.
Unfortunately, not
long after we launch, we'll run into traffic from KC. In KC
there's
lots of APRS traffic. So GPSL will move off the standard APRS
frequency (144.390). Mark suggested a frequency, but I managed
to lose it. I'll get back with you on the proper APRS
frequency.

Chase Frequencies
At the launch site and for what I think will be most of the
chase,
we'll use the Manhattan repeater. If we get close to Topeka or
Lawrence, we'll switch to one of their repeaters. A near space
repeater will be avaiable during the chase. We may go to
simplex
during portions of the recovery. I'll post the Topeka and
Lawrence
frequencies shortly. For simplex, I'd like select a 2m and 440
frequency that are easy to remember, perhaps the call-in
frequencies. Those too will be posted shortly.

Thanks,
Paul






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Frequency Coordination Format

paul.verhage@...
 

One o more item needs to be added to the frequency coordination
form. Please add if you can change frequencies and how easy.
This won't be a problem for APRS, as we'll use the same
frequency. But repeaters and ATVer's can't use the same
frequency. We won't ask someone to change frequencies if their
transmitter is crystal controlled and can't be changed in time.

So the format looks like this....

Name Mode Power Frequency Changeable?

Options for Changeable are

Yes (as in having an HT with a tuning knob)
Some (as in using a crystal that you can reasonably switch out)
Not on your life (there's no realistic way to change your frequency
in the time allotted)

Paul

Re: Frequency Coordination

mgray@...
 

I've made the requested changes to the file and changed the name to reflect
only the ANSR payloads. The file is in the Files section of the Yahoo
group page.

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I saw your file. I didn't realize I was assigning a task already
started. If yopu don't mind, I'd like to forward that to Mark. We'll
add one more item to the list. We need to find out who can
change frequencies if there is a problem.

Paul
> Paul,
>
> Not sure if you saw my message from last week, but I already started
> the frequency list. It is posted in the Files sections. If you want
> Mark to track the frequencies, let me know and I'll assign the file
> to him.



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Frequency Coordination Format

paul.verhage@...
 

Frequencies
Name Mode Power Frequency Changeable?
TVNSP Packet 340 mW 144.34 yes

Paul

Re: Frequency Coordination Format

mgray@...
 

ANSR - Arizona Near Space Research

Frequency Summary
Name Mode Power Frequency Changeable?
KD7LMO-11 APRS 500mW 445.950 MHz Synthesized 420-450
KD7LMO-11 Repeater In --- 145.560 MHz Synthesized 144-148
KD7LMO-11 Repeater Out 5W 445.525 MHz Synthesized 430-450MHz

Payload Packages
KD7LMO-11, APRS Beacon
$GPGGA, $GPRMC, and plain text status '>' sent via GATE,WIDE3-3
Alternating every 30 seconds, no carrier detect/DCD
445.950 MHz, synthesized 420-450MHz

KD7LMO-11, Cross band repeater, remote commanding (cut down),
flight data recorder, telemetry, redundant APRS
In: 145.560 MHz w/162.2 Hz PL tone, synthesized 144-148MHz
Out: 445.525 MHz (5 watts), synthesized 430-450MHz

Rev. 13 May 2002

Re: Frequency coordination format.

paul.verhage@...
 

Are you sending up a tracker or are you getting a lift from
someone? As far as the tracker, are you slotting your packets?
And also at what times?

Thanks,
Paul

KCATVG - Kansas City Amateur Television Group

Frequency Summary
Name Mode Power Frequency Changeable? * Notes
KD0FW ATV 5 Watts 439.250 MHz Crystal
KD0FW Simplex Rptr .100 MW 144.340 MHZ Synthesized ATV DX Simplex Calling Frequency.


Frequency coordination format.

Michael L. Bogard <kd0fw@...>
 

KCATVG - Kansas City Amateur Television Group

Frequency Summary
Name    Mode          Power   Frequency    Changeable?   * Notes
KD0FW   ATV            5 Watts 439.250 MHz  Crystal
KD0FW   Simplex Rptr   .100 MW 144.340 MHZ  Synthesized   ATV DX Simplex Calling Frequency.

  

Re: Frequency coordination format.

Michael L. Bogard <kd0fw@...>
 

I will tracking mine the hard way using direction finding equipment like we used in the early 1990's for now. I had a offer from ka0jlf to do APRS but that will depend on the total weight of the payload.

Re: GPSL Proceedings

Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
 

Paul,

A less than timely response. My intent is to use our records listing as the
backbone of my discussion paper. I will add my comments to each category
and encourage attendees to contribute their thoughts during the discussion.
The paper will then be amended with contributions from others and published
in my web pages for the amusement and amazement of both of my readers . . .

I will cooperate with your schedule to make the initial paper available for
a printed proceedings. Given electronic copies of other papers, I could
also (as I say in our GPSL web page) create a more comprehensive web
proceedings to be available to all comers (both of them) . . .

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://members.crosspaths.net/wallio
No system should be more complicated than it need be

----- Original Message -----
From: <paul.verhage@...>
To: <GPSL@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: [GPSL] GPSL Proceedings


I need to know if presenters will have written notes for me to
publish. So far no presenter has given me notice. I'd like to make
a copy of every presenter's notes available to attendees. I'll take
care of the photocopying and binding.

Please let me know if you'll have notes for me to publish.

Paul

Re: 500 mile flight?

paul.verhage@...
 

I like the idea.
I assume recovery crews here would send a series of DTMF tones
to terminate the flight?

One concern is the altitude of the flight. 30-40k feet will keep the
balloon in the jetways. Will a high altitude work? I imagine ti
would take two days to get to Manhattan.

Paul

All:
It's been an idea of mine to launch a zero-pressure
balloon from here in Denver, and float it low (30-40k
feet probably) from here to Manhattan KS, about 500
miles east of here. I keep bringing it up at the
EOSS meetings, but the idea just hasn't caught on.
Some rudimentary navigation could be possible with
ballast dump. If anyone on this list wants to assist
in looking at historical winds and coming up with a
flight plan (something like- float at A feet until you
get to X,Y, then dump ballast and ascend to B feet to
take the balloon into the Manhattan KS vicinity), I
would take this info into account to design and build
the balloon and flight systems. If the 'cruise
float' is around 30k feet, I should be able to
maintain direct line of site control over the balloon
to 300+ miles out if I drive up to 14+k feet on Mount
Evans (or Pike's Peak) immediately after launch, then
do a hand-over to a team on the ground in Manhattan.

500 mile flight?

K. Mark Caviezel
 

All:
It's been an idea of mine to launch a zero-pressure
balloon from here in Denver, and float it low (30-40k
feet probably) from here to Manhattan KS, about 500
miles east of here. I keep bringing it up at the
EOSS meetings, but the idea just hasn't caught on.
Some rudimentary navigation could be possible with
ballast dump. If anyone on this list wants to assist
in looking at historical winds and coming up with a
flight plan (something like- float at A feet until you
get to X,Y, then dump ballast and ascend to B feet to
take the balloon into the Manhattan KS vicinity), I
would take this info into account to design and build
the balloon and flight systems. If the 'cruise
float' is around 30k feet, I should be able to
maintain direct line of site control over the balloon
to 300+ miles out if I drive up to 14+k feet on Mount
Evans (or Pike's Peak) immediately after launch, then
do a hand-over to a team on the ground in Manhattan.

Any interest ?

- KMC





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Re: 500 mile flight?

Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
 

The main thing that hits me about your idea is, the altitude you are talking is
right in the jetways. I don't think you would get clearance for a flight plan
like that. I think you would be better served flying above 60K ft.

73 Don

"K. Mark Caviezel" wrote:

All:
It's been an idea of mine to launch a zero-pressure
balloon from here in Denver, and float it low (30-40k
feet probably) from here to Manhattan KS, about 500
miles east of here. I keep bringing it up at the
EOSS meetings, but the idea just hasn't caught on.
Some rudimentary navigation could be possible with
ballast dump. If anyone on this list wants to assist
in looking at historical winds and coming up with a
flight plan (something like- float at A feet until you
get to X,Y, then dump ballast and ascend to B feet to
take the balloon into the Manhattan KS vicinity), I
would take this info into account to design and build
the balloon and flight systems. If the 'cruise
float' is around 30k feet, I should be able to
maintain direct line of site control over the balloon
to 300+ miles out if I drive up to 14+k feet on Mount
Evans (or Pike's Peak) immediately after launch, then
do a hand-over to a team on the ground in Manhattan.

Any interest ?

- KMC
--

[Signature File]
Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF
HABITAT SkyLab
(High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking)
Email=ka0jlf@... or ka0jlf@... or donp@...

http://habitat.netlab.org

Re: 500 mile flight?

Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
 

The discussion of Mean Zonal Winds (MZW) at
http://users.crosspaths.net/~wallio/MZW.html helps us start planning toward
a long distance mission (but lets plan toward more than 703.02 miles to give
us a chance at breaking the SSOK/WB0DRL record - see
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/RECORDS.html). MZW data includes mean
wind speed (m/s) at various altitudes but there is no directional component
other than westerly vs. easterly.

Referring to the data table for 40dN latitude and looking at winds between
60k and 80kft, we can see that December-January would be best for a west to
east flight. MZW velocity varies 10-18m/s (20-35kts) depending on altitude.
Based on these mean values and an average of 27.5kts (31.6mph), it would
take 704/31.6 = a little over 22-hours aloft to break the record.

Taking this MZW estimate up to 24-hours and 760 miles, the mission could be
launched late in the afternoon from the Denver area and recovered before
nightfall the following day. Touchdown would be somewhere on an arc running
through western Wisconsin, western and central Illinois and eastern Missouri
from Duluth, MN to Little Rock, AR. This is as close as we can predict this
far out but there would be significantly more precision during the final
days of preparations.

Winds aloft at lower altitudes are highly variable in both speed and
direction (hot air balloon distance record breaking attempts often wait
months, even years, for the right conditions, 10k-18kft) but they are
somewhat dependable within a season at higher altitudes. I say "somewhat
dependable" because our collective flight experience shows significant
variations in characteristics for flights in the same month (see MZW
discussion). EOSS-46 experienced easterlies above 60kft in January which
are totally unpredicted by MZW data while EOSS-53 in December matches the
MZW prediction almost perfectly.

Launching in the late afternoon would minimize helium loss from the
zero-pressure envelope due to solar heating during the early hours of the
mission. After sunrise solar heating would provide more lift helping keep
the balloon and payload above 60kft and controlled airspace until flight
termination. Precision track predictions in the last few days before flight
would allow the recovery crew to position themselves appropriately,
southeastern Missouri to west central Wisconsin.

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://members.crosspaths.net/wallio
Component cost is not the same thing as system cost

----- Original Message -----
From: K. Mark Caviezel <kmcaviezel@...>
To: <GPSL@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [GPSL] 500 mile flight?


All:
It's been an idea of mine to launch a zero-pressure
balloon from here in Denver, and float it low (30-40k
feet probably) from here to Manhattan KS, about 500
miles east of here. I keep bringing it up at the
EOSS meetings, but the idea just hasn't caught on.
Some rudimentary navigation could be possible with
ballast dump. If anyone on this list wants to assist
in looking at historical winds and coming up with a
flight plan (something like- float at A feet until you
get to X,Y, then dump ballast and ascend to B feet to
take the balloon into the Manhattan KS vicinity), I
would take this info into account to design and build
the balloon and flight systems. If the 'cruise
float' is around 30k feet, I should be able to
maintain direct line of site control over the balloon
to 300+ miles out if I drive up to 14+k feet on Mount
Evans (or Pike's Peak) immediately after launch, then
do a hand-over to a team on the ground in Manhattan.

Any interest ?

- KMC