Date   
Frequency coordination

Rick von Glahn <rickvg@...>
 

I've posted a frequency coordination page at:

http://gpsl.eoss.org/frequency_coordination.htm

I won't be doing the coordination. I'm just posting information you pass
along. Resolve conflicts among yourselves :-)

Send me any frequencies you will be using so others can see were you are
and possibly avoid conflicts.

73 -- Rick, NØKKZ

Re: Frequency coordination

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Rick,

I >think< I have a pretty good summary of all the GPSL balloon
freqs in Big Chief format -- and now that HamCon 2003 is behind us,
I can focus more sharply on the details of GPSL.

I'll check the page before I go much farther, tho.

Tnx es 73 de Mike W5VSI

Rick von Glahn wrote:


I've posted a frequency coordination page at:

http://gpsl.eoss.org/frequency_coordination.htm

I won't be doing the coordination. I'm just posting information you pass
along. Resolve conflicts among yourselves :-)

Send me any frequencies you will be using so others can see were you are
and possibly avoid conflicts.

73 -- Rick, N�KKZ


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Einstein

NSTAR 03-C flight announcement

Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
 

Nebraska Stratospheric Amateur Radio (NSTAR) Flight 03-C is
scheduled for Saturday, June 14th from our usual launch site near
Treynor, Iowa. This flight will be about the same time as the
multi-balloon Great Plains Super Launch being held in Colorado
that morning. I have a 1200g balloon which should get us to just
under 100,000 ft.

Launch time is still TBD. The Colorado balloons are scheduled to
fly at 1500 UTC, which is 1000 CDT. We may not be able to wait
that late in the morning. One possibility is to be ready for a
0800 CDT (1300 UTC) launch, then hold if the winds permit. I
don't think we can launch earlier than 1400 UTC and have a decent
shot at having mutual visibility between NSTAR and the GPSL
balloons.

Primary APRS will be on 144.340 with callsign N9XTN-11 and a
digipeater alias of NSTAR. Backup APRS will be on the national
144.390 frequency with callsign N9XTN-12. Simplex repeater will
be on 446.300 MHz. The camcorder and still camera will also fly.

As launch approaches, day-to-day updates are posted to the KNSP
list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KNSP . Also see the NSTAR
web site at http://www.nstar.org for more information.

73 de Mark N9XTN
------
Mark D. Conner
E-mail: n9xtn@...
Homepage: http://members.cox.net/mconner1
"Arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package.....how
efficient of you!" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

Re: NSTAR 03-C flight announcement

paul.verhage@...
 

Good luck, Mark. Sorry you can't make it to GPSL this year.

Paul

Nebraska Stratospheric Amateur Radio (NSTAR) Flight 03-C is
scheduled for Saturday, June 14th from our usual launch site near
Treynor, Iowa. This flight will be about the same time as the
multi-balloon Great Plains Super Launch being held in Colorado
that morning. I have a 1200g balloon which should get us to just
under 100,000 ft.

Launch time is still TBD. The Colorado balloons are scheduled to
fly at 1500 UTC, which is 1000 CDT. We may not be able to wait
that late in the morning. One possibility is to be ready for a
0800 CDT (1300 UTC) launch, then hold if the winds permit. I
don't think we can launch earlier than 1400 UTC and have a decent
shot at having mutual visibility between NSTAR and the GPSL
balloons.

Primary APRS will be on 144.340 with callsign N9XTN-11 and a
digipeater alias of NSTAR. Backup APRS will be on the national
144.390 frequency with callsign N9XTN-12. Simplex repeater will
be on 446.300 MHz. The camcorder and still camera will also fly.

As launch approaches, day-to-day updates are posted to the KNSP
list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KNSP . Also see the NSTAR
web site at http://www.nstar.org for more information.

73 de Mark N9XTN
------
Mark D. Conner
E-mail: n9xtn@...
Homepage: http://members.cox.net/mconner1
"Arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package.....how
efficient of you!" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon 5









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Re: Counting balloons

Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
 

Mike Manes wrote:

Hi Ralph,

Yeah -- I guess that'd make 7 -- but who's counting? :=}

73 de Mike W5VSI

"Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" wrote:

A suggestion folks.

If Mark/NSTAR and/or others are going to coordinate flights with GPSL for
purposes of EBBE, et al., then we could consider including them in the
GPSL2003 balloon count.
I found out today, I do start the training class Monday.

It is yet unknown if we can have a balloon ready by the 14th but I don't see why
not. We will work with that aim in mind. I'll check with the group and see
who/what is available.

I'll keep you posted. It may be next weekend (first weekend in June) before I
know for sure.

Don

--

[Signature File]
Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF
HABITAT SkyLab

Re: GPSL A/V & i'net?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for paring the weight down. Depending on how the pieces tote
up per flight string, it looks like we can carry upwards of 28 @ 600 gm
balloonsats. How's the Workshop team count looking so far?

OK on the video projector. My laptop does have an external SVGA jack,
but I don't have a cable.

Hope to see you at the HamCon in Estes Park this Saturday.

Mike

Chris Koehler wrote:


Weight looks very close to 600 grams.

No special requirements on the laptop to project as long as the laptop
has a monitor out connection.

Talk to you soon.

Chris Koehler
Deputy Director
Colorado Space Grant Consortium
University of Colorado at Boulder
303-492-4750
spacegrant.colorado.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Manes [mailto:manes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:29 AM
To: Chris Koehler
Cc: GPSL Reflector
Subject: Re: [GPSL] GPSL A/V & i'net?

Hi Chris,

Thanks! This is shaping up to be quite an event! Hope I can keep
all the plates in the air in the meantime.

Do you have any better idea of how many Balloonsats we should expect
and how much they will weigh?

Not sure about the other GPSL attendees, but I think I may be busy
cutting ZZZZs Saturday evening. However, I expect that lunch on
Saturday will be at a suitable eastern CO greasy spoon near the
recovery site; I think you're familiar with that process :=}.

Is there any special provision required to connect a laptop to the
projection monitor in the Eaton Conf Rm?

Mike

Chris Koehler wrote:

Working on the map. I looked at the website and I will try to provide
one that fits with what is on there.

The room is the Eaton Conference room.

I also asked Rick to add the Saturday evening pizza banquet to the
events page. Everyone is welcome to attend.

Chris Koehler
Deputy Director
Colorado Space Grant Consortium
University of Colorado at Boulder
303-492-4750
spacegrant.colorado.edu
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: Counting balloons

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Ralph,

Yeah -- I guess that'd make 7 -- but who's counting? :=}

73 de Mike W5VSI

"Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" wrote:


A suggestion folks.

If Mark/NSTAR and/or others are going to coordinate flights with GPSL for
purposes of EBBE, et al., then we could consider including them in the
GPSL2003 balloon count.

Another balloon for the count:

------------------------
From the ES-OS e-mail list:
Gang:
heyyyyyyyyyyyy, wow have been doing a ton of
non-balloon related stuff in recent times.
Anyway, a plan has been hatched....
126,000 cubic foot balloon to be built and flown at
GPSL on June 14 2003 out of Deer Trail, CO. It
should take 10 lbs payload to 120k feet.
Stay tuned here for updates and official flight
announcement. As usual, interested volunteers are
welcome to help preflight/day of flight.

- KMC
------------------------

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/
Hubbert's Peak - The Mother of all Perfect Storms


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Einstein

Counting balloons

Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
 

A suggestion folks.

If Mark/NSTAR and/or others are going to coordinate flights with GPSL for
purposes of EBBE, et al., then we could consider including them in the
GPSL2003 balloon count.

Another balloon for the count:

------------------------
From the ES-OS e-mail list:

Gang:
heyyyyyyyyyyyy, wow have been doing a ton of
non-balloon related stuff in recent times.
Anyway, a plan has been hatched....
126,000 cubic foot balloon to be built and flown at
GPSL on June 14 2003 out of Deer Trail, CO. It
should take 10 lbs payload to 120k feet.
Stay tuned here for updates and official flight
announcement. As usual, interested volunteers are
welcome to help preflight/day of flight.

- KMC
------------------------

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/
Hubbert's Peak - The Mother of all Perfect Storms

Re: GPSL A/V & i'net?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Chris,

Thanks! This is shaping up to be quite an event! Hope I can keep
all the plates in the air in the meantime.

Do you have any better idea of how many Balloonsats we should expect
and how much they will weigh?

Not sure about the other GPSL attendees, but I think I may be busy
cutting ZZZZs Saturday evening. However, I expect that lunch on
Saturday will be at a suitable eastern CO greasy spoon near the
recovery site; I think you're familiar with that process :=}.

Is there any special provision required to connect a laptop to the
projection monitor in the Eaton Conf Rm?

Mike

Chris Koehler wrote:


Working on the map. I looked at the website and I will try to provide
one that fits with what is on there.

The room is the Eaton Conference room.

I also asked Rick to add the Saturday evening pizza banquet to the
events page. Everyone is welcome to attend.

Chris Koehler
Deputy Director
Colorado Space Grant Consortium
University of Colorado at Boulder
303-492-4750
spacegrant.colorado.edu
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: GPSL and 2m

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Mark,

According to Mike KD7LMO:
Cross Band Repeater uplink 145.560MHz / PL 162.2, downlink 445.525 MHz.

The rest of the balloons will be beaconing APRS on 445.975 and
144.34 MHz with -11 SSIDs.

73 de Mike W5VSI

Mark Conner wrote:


Hi all,

I'm hoping to fly June 14th from the Omaha area, at the same time
the large group is flying in Colorado. Will anyone out there be
sending packet data on 2 meters? Perhaps one of the payloads
could transmit via NSTAR and we'd see if we could get it
digipeated this way. It wouldn't be a 2-way path, but at least
we'd get BBE out of the deal.

Also, if someone were doing crossband voice to 70cm out, we could
put our simplex repeater on the output and maybe pick that up
too.

73 de Mark N9XTN


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Einstein

Re: [KNSP] NSTAR 03-C - June 14th?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Don,

ANSR plans on flying its crossband repeater during GPSL on 14 Jun.
Launch is set for 0900 MDST from Deer Trail CO, 50 mi E of Denver.

According to Mike KD7LMO:
Cross Band Repeater uplink 145.560MHz / PL 162.2, downlink 445.525 MHz.

The rest of the balloons will be beaconing APRS on 445.975 and
144.34 MHz with -11 SSIDs.

73 de Mike W5VSI

Don Pfister wrote:


KNSP@... wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:00:55 -0500
From: "Mark Conner" <n9xtn@...>
Subject: NSTAR 03-C - June 14th?

For the local NSTAR chasers - can you participate on June 14th?
I'm not sure how much interaction we'll have with the GPSL crowd
RF-wise, but at least we can go up at the same time.

Also, we may try out the simplex repeater again for this flight.
Hopefully we can get all the various gremlins that have been
plaguing our secondary payloads to go away this time.

73 de Mark N9XTN
Looks like I MIGHT start a new job on June 02, 2003. If this is the case, we
might be able to launch something on the 14th too, here locally.

I'll keep everyone posted on possible upcoming flight(s).

Mark - Zack - do we need to coordinate any frequencies or bands if we fly at the
same time? I haven't kept up with the plans. Mike has asked me if we would be
doing something local for the GPSL. As stated above it might be possible but
still undecided at this point.

Don Pfister KA0JLF
Founder of HABITAT SkyLab
(High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking)
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: GPSL Schedule

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Mike,

OK -- yer on at 1000 - 1100 on Friday the 13th (I didn't schedule this
date!) We have five one-hour slots scheduled, and all are full. BTW,
Bill Brown is one of the speakers. I'm getting behind on passing the
word to alcon - too many arns inna farh! If you want to show your
DVD during the 0900 - 1000 reception, that would be great as well.

Attendees are all experienced balloonists, so "fundamentals" may not
draw too much interest. But new stuff, like ANSR's liason with AZ
Space Grant, sure would. That and the prospect of national IRPL
balloon net -- and yer on-board BallTrack algorithm. etc. OF course,
historical perspectives pre-helium :=} are neat as well.

73 de Mike W5VSI

mgray@... wrote:


Not sure what the forum schedule is, but I'll take the first slot. I have
a generic, high altitude ballooning DVD I'd like to show. It has video
from the Bill Brown's first flight, how to prep and launch, payloads,
information on student projects, building hardware, etc. It is generic
and doesn't really talk about ANSR. It is about 12 minutes long. Maybe
we can show this at 9:45 AM and then start with the ANSR presentation at
10:00 AM. But let me know. I'm flexible and have plenty of material to
fill one or two sessions.

73s and thanks for all your effort in getting this project going

At least we'll have a Star Bucks in Boulder and no humdidty.
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: CU SGC Workshop / GPSL 2003 Flight 14 June

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Bill,

I know what a pain it is having to share the spectrum and stratosphere
with all these other folks. It's like herding cats from this end!
But unless we all wanna carry up FAA Mode-3 transponders (7lb + batts,
1 KW PEP pulse emissions at 1 GHz + kilobucks ....), this is the only
reasonable alternative I can come up with.

The Kenwood D7 can be configured for time-slotting - a number of other
groups use 'em as well. Only thing I don't like is that >B0-o-O-gus<
Mic-key cryptic APRS format! Fortunately, findu.com and wxqa.com
capiche Mic-key.

Recommend you or one of yer team spend an hour with the D7 manual and
a glass of vintage Chateau Bayonne to discover the secrets ensconced in
Japlish :=}. Altho a secondary beacon would be desirable, it does
deduct from the balloonsat payload budget; I think Mark Caviezel of
ES-OS may have one for loan - he's on this reflector.

Let me know how you fare, and have a good Memorial Day.

73 de Mike W5VSI

Bill Hiscock wrote:


Mike:

Thanks for the details of how EOSS is working with Denver Center and
Tracon, that helps me (and our crew) understand why we can't simply use
different frequencies as we did last year.

Our taking over responsibility for our balloon with ATC is, in my
opinion, out of the question. As you've noted, this is some of the
busiest airspace in the country, and there is NO way I'd want to fly
there without the history, connections, and procedures EOSS has
developed with ATC.

I see two ways we can try to go:

(1) Last year, we flew a secondary EOSS beacon on our stack. Is it
possible there might be an EOSS APRS beacon we could fly that would
handle the time-slotted reporting necessary for ATC? This would leaving
our beacon free on another frequency to send more frequent packets --
but the important point is that it would eliminate the need for our team
to learn how to handle the time slotting (perhaps this is a simple
matter, I just don't know).

(2) If EOSS cannot provide a secondary beacon we could fly, then I think
we just have to step up and learn how to handle the time slotting
requirement. I'll have our crew start looking into this in any case. Our
hardware is quite simple -- a Garmin GPS hooked into a Kenwood TH-D7.

Whatever additional information you can provide is very welcome and
appreciated.

I suspect Chris and I will be joining you for dinner on Thursday night,
along with Sean Kirn, our MT Flight Director (grad student in EE), to
make sure we've got all the details worked out for Saturday morning.

Thanks for the invitation to the GPSL event at CU Friday, and I wish I
could attend, but our ballooning team will be busy Friday with the
workshop participants, so I'm afraid we'll miss it.

Again, thanks Mike, and I'm sure we'll get this worked out. Looking
forward to the workshop and GPSL.

Bill

Mike Manes wrote:

Hi Bill,

My apologies for any unintended snub regarding the title of the
workshop -- I think I generally refer to it as the CU SGG BalloonSat
Workshop, at least when introducing the event.

And as you may have learned, the 2003 Great Plains Super Launch (GPSL)
is being hosted by EOSS this year and will be held inconjunction with
the Workshop. GPSL attendees will be meeting all day Fri 13 June
at CU, courtesy Chris Koehler. We plan to meet for dinner at the
Souper Salad Thursday evening, any you and Chris are more than welcome
to join us - I think we can work out any last minute hitches then. And
you or another of the Mt State team is welcome to the GPSL conference as
well. See http://gpsl.eoss.org for all the details.

Regarding the APRS beaconing: EOSS has committed to provide FAA Denver
Center and DIA Tracon controllers with enroute position reports as per
last year. But since that time, some of our group have developed
a web-based APRS reporting system using findu.com processes. This
scheme provides FAA controllers with VOR radial and range with altitude
reports with 60-sec updates. We've used it on the last 3 EOSS flights,
and the FAA have taken a strong liking to it. And it saves us a bunch
of cell phome roaming fees as well. This system relies entirely upon
certain cooperating Denver-area ham stations to serve as gateways
(Igates) from the 70cm and 2m APRS beacon downlinks and into the
internet. So far, our Igates can receive only one 70cm freq and one
2m freq at a time.

Since last year, the FAA has become pretty antsy about balloons
intruding on DIA approach and departure corridors -- we're launching
just 35 NM from DIA. So even though all of the Workshop flights are
FAR-101 exempt, EOSS has a policy of letting the FAA know where we are
so they can keep their aeroplanes away from our valuable payload
strings :=}.

Thus for this flight of five balloons, we are
compelled to do some frequency reuse by means of time-slotting, i.e,
allocating each balloon its own 10-sec segment of each GPS UTC minute
in which it can xmit its APRS beacon without stepping on another.
For that purpose, EOSS has picked 445.975 MHz and 144.340 MHz, both of
which have been proven to be QRM-free during past flights. The 144.39
MHz APRS backbone would eventually get you gated into the internet,
provided you include IGATE in you path; but that freq is extremely
busy in the Denver area, even for terrestrial stations. We tried it
once during a flight, and our KPC-3's mind got blown ascending above
40K' and it stopped generating position reports. And any APRS
beacon hitting on 144.39 every 11 sec is sure to create consternation
amongst the Front Range APRS community.

In the event of an APRS failure, EOSS is prepared to manually track
the balloons and make cell phone reports.

Now, you are not the only balloon team that would like to downlink
more frequent reports. EOSS would like to as well. So what we have
done in those cases is to carry two APRS beacons on each balloon.
One operates on one of the shared freqs with 60-sec time slotted
time, lat/lon and altitude, while the busier downlink goes on a
separate freq. And it's not a bad idea to carry up a spare beacon -
it's saved EOSS's bacon many times in the past!

An easy, albeit costly, backup beacon can be built using a Kenwood
D-7 HT plus any GPS receiver that has NMEA $GPGGA serial output.
Or the cheap route is to get a Dyoincs TinyTrak 3 and a cheap HT
(Alinco DJ-C5 dual-bander is flight proven), plus the GPS; this does
require more sweat equity, however. Either one can yield a flight-
ready package that weighs under 1.7 lb with antenna and 48-hrs of
battery.

If neither of these alternatives is acceptable, then I'd propose that
you do you own thing and accept the responsibility for making you
own FAA reports. At launch and up thru FL230, call DIA Tracon Ops
at 303-342-1590; above that up thru FL600, call Denver Center Military
Desk at 303-651-4252. Let them know your cell phone number. Reverse
that process during descent, and call 'em both when you've landed.
These reports should include your flight ID (EOSS-67C, which will
have been filed on our HiBal Notice), altitude, time and VOR position
(3-letter VOR ID, mag radial and NM range) For this flight, suggest
you use the Falcon (FQF) VOR. The controller will advise you at
which altitude to make your next report. (They normally ask for
FL230, 350, 450 and 600 in ascent and dscent, but if we're close to
DIA, they may want more frequent reports). These reports should be
no more than 3 minutes old when you call 'em in.

For Merle K0YUK: can you let Bill know what fill tube diameter
to use with a 1200 gm Kaysam?

"W. A. Hiscock" wrote:

Mike:

Sorry for the delay, I finally have some answers for your questions. See
below.

And we should all refer to the workshop as the "Space Grant Workshop",
not the CU workshop, please.

Mike Manes wrote:


1. Parachute diameter or MSL terminal descent rate w/ 12# load.
Parachute diameter is 9 feet; terminal descent rate w/12# load is rated
at 15-20 fps.

2. Beacon weight in flight configuration. (this deducts from the
allowable balloonsat load)
Not counting the parachute (as I know EOSS does not), our beacon (we
call it the "command capsule") total weight is anticipated to be about
1800 g, or just under four pounds.

3. Beacon callsign and SSID (-11 preferred).
KD7MFJ-11

4. Which bands / freqs can you downlink on?
We usually downlink our APRS packets on 144.39, which is not so crowded
up here in MT.

Our preference would be to stay in the 2 m band. We also like to send
packets more often than 1/minute (we usually send at the max possible
rate, 11 sec. period with our equipment). It would be ideal for us to
have our APRS tracking on a 2-m frequency offset from the other balloons
so that we can utilize a high packet rate and not get involved in time
slotting (which we've never done -- I'm very leery about trying new
things, esp. with so many other folks on the airwaves).

5. Can your beacon transmissions be time-slotted to a particular second
after the top of each GPS minute? (Provides for freq sharing w/
other beacons).
We have no experience with this, and, as I said above, I'd rather not be
experimenting with new techniques when the emphasis is on a safe ride
for the workshop balloonsats.

Finally, a question for your regarding balloon fill plumbing: we've used
1500g Kaysams, but never a 1200 g. Is the nozzle diameter the same as
the 1500? We need to make sure we've got the right diameter pipe to do
the fill.

Looking forward to the GPSL,

Bill

P.S. I think Chris may have already mentioned this idea, but I think it
would be very valuable to have a dinner of all the team Flight Directors
(EOSS, TVNSP, ANSP, MT BOREALIS, plus Chris and myself representing the
SG workshop), possibly on Thursday, to do final coordination on plans
and frequencies, as we did last year. Saturday morning is just too
hectic.

*****************************************************************
William A. Hiscock (406)-994-6170
Professor of Physics (406)-994-4452 (FAX)
Director, Montana Space Grant Consortium hiscock@...
261A EPS Building KD7MFF
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717-3840
http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/hiscock
*****************************************************************
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein
--
****************************************************************
William A. Hiscock (406)-994-6170
Professor of Physics (406)-994-4452 (FAX)
Director, Montana Space Grant Consortium KD7MFF
hiscock@...
http://www.montana.edu/wwwph/faculty/hiscock.html
261A EPS, Montana State University, Bozeman, MT 59717-3840
****************************************************************
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: GPSL transport and catering?

paul.verhage@...
 

With black olives, please.
;)

Paul

Hi Paul,
Ok .... that's one large canadian bacon pizza, right? :={}
Mike

paul.verhage@... wrote:

For GPSL attendees: any dietary preferences or restrictions for lunch?
My only restrictions is that the food taste good and there be plenty
of it.
;)

Paul


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Re: GPSL A/V & i'net?

paul.verhage@...
 

Let Bill know which fill tube diameter needed for a 1200 gm Kaysam,
in case Merle missed my earlier embedded request replying to Bill's
email.
I use a 1.25" PVC pipe, which I believe is 1.5" OD.

Thanks for getting the weight down! Assuming the worst-case (700 gm)
balloonsat weight, here's the 'sat allocation per flight string:
Not a problem. I didn't realize we were carrying payload.

EOSS (EOSS-67A): 8.0 lb, 5 sats
ANSR (EOSS-67B): 7.5 lb, 4 sats
Mt State (EOSS-67C): 8.0 lb, 5 sats
TVNSP-A (EOSS-67D): 7.0 lb, 4 sats
TVNSP-B (EOSS-67E): 7.0 lb, 4 sats.
Total: 37.5 lb, 22 @ 700 gm sats.
(The EOSS-67 stuff is for FAA "side number" reporting purposes only)
For TVNSP, this will be flight TV03E1 and TV03E2 (not that it's
important).

Paul

Re: GPSL Launches

paul.verhage@...
 

Hi Paul,

A bit of a letdown from the 6 we did last year - guess Denver is just
too far off the beaten path to attract that many balloon groups :={.
How's the NWSL coming along?
I think it's great. We were lucky with GPSL 2002. Let's see if we
can make GPSL 2004 even bigger.

NWSL will have two balloons and is scheduled for next Saturday.

Paul

Re: CU SGC Workshop / GPSL 2003 Flight 14 June

paul.verhage@...
 

Bill, TVNSP may be able to provide a tracker. Do you have a GPS?

Paul

Hi Bill,

I know what a pain it is having to share the spectrum and stratosphere
with all these other folks. It's like herding cats from this end!
But unless we all wanna carry up FAA Mode-3 transponders (7lb + batts,
1 KW PEP pulse emissions at 1 GHz + kilobucks ....), this is the only
reasonable alternative I can come up with.

The Kenwood D7 can be configured for time-slotting - a number of other
groups use 'em as well. Only thing I don't like is that >B0-o-O-gus<
Mic-key cryptic APRS format! Fortunately, findu.com and wxqa.com
capiche Mic-key.

Recommend you or one of yer team spend an hour with the D7 manual and
a glass of vintage Chateau Bayonne to discover the secrets ensconced in
Japlish :=}. Altho a secondary beacon would be desirable, it does
deduct from the balloonsat payload budget; I think Mark Caviezel of
ES-OS may have one for loan - he's on this reflector.

Let me know how you fare, and have a good Memorial Day.

73 de Mike W5VSI

Bill Hiscock wrote:

Mike:

Thanks for the details of how EOSS is working with Denver Center and
Tracon, that helps me (and our crew) understand why we can't simply use
different frequencies as we did last year.

Our taking over responsibility for our balloon with ATC is, in my
opinion, out of the question. As you've noted, this is some of the
busiest airspace in the country, and there is NO way I'd want to fly
there without the history, connections, and procedures EOSS has
developed with ATC.

I see two ways we can try to go:

(1) Last year, we flew a secondary EOSS beacon on our stack. Is it
possible there might be an EOSS APRS beacon we could fly that would
handle the time-slotted reporting necessary for ATC? This would leaving
our beacon free on another frequency to send more frequent packets --
but the important point is that it would eliminate the need for our team
to learn how to handle the time slotting (perhaps this is a simple
matter, I just don't know).

(2) If EOSS cannot provide a secondary beacon we could fly, then I think
we just have to step up and learn how to handle the time slotting
requirement. I'll have our crew start looking into this in any case. Our
hardware is quite simple -- a Garmin GPS hooked into a Kenwood TH-D7.

Whatever additional information you can provide is very welcome and
appreciated.

I suspect Chris and I will be joining you for dinner on Thursday night,
along with Sean Kirn, our MT Flight Director (grad student in EE), to
make sure we've got all the details worked out for Saturday morning.

Thanks for the invitation to the GPSL event at CU Friday, and I wish I
could attend, but our ballooning team will be busy Friday with the
workshop participants, so I'm afraid we'll miss it.

Again, thanks Mike, and I'm sure we'll get this worked out. Looking
forward to the workshop and GPSL.

Bill

Mike Manes wrote:

Hi Bill,

My apologies for any unintended snub regarding the title of the
workshop -- I think I generally refer to it as the CU SGG BalloonSat
Workshop, at least when introducing the event.

And as you may have learned, the 2003 Great Plains Super Launch (GPSL)
is being hosted by EOSS this year and will be held inconjunction with
the Workshop. GPSL attendees will be meeting all day Fri 13 June
at CU, courtesy Chris Koehler. We plan to meet for dinner at the
Souper Salad Thursday evening, any you and Chris are more than welcome
to join us - I think we can work out any last minute hitches then. And
you or another of the Mt State team is welcome to the GPSL conference as
well. See http://gpsl.eoss.org for all the details.

Regarding the APRS beaconing: EOSS has committed to provide FAA Denver
Center and DIA Tracon controllers with enroute position reports as per
last year. But since that time, some of our group have developed
a web-based APRS reporting system using findu.com processes. This
scheme provides FAA controllers with VOR radial and range with altitude
reports with 60-sec updates. We've used it on the last 3 EOSS flights,
and the FAA have taken a strong liking to it. And it saves us a bunch
of cell phome roaming fees as well. This system relies entirely upon
certain cooperating Denver-area ham stations to serve as gateways
(Igates) from the 70cm and 2m APRS beacon downlinks and into the
internet. So far, our Igates can receive only one 70cm freq and one
2m freq at a time.

Since last year, the FAA has become pretty antsy about balloons
intruding on DIA approach and departure corridors -- we're launching
just 35 NM from DIA. So even though all of the Workshop flights are
FAR-101 exempt, EOSS has a policy of letting the FAA know where we are
so they can keep their aeroplanes away from our valuable payload
strings :=}.

Thus for this flight of five balloons, we are
compelled to do some frequency reuse by means of time-slotting, i.e,
allocating each balloon its own 10-sec segment of each GPS UTC minute
in which it can xmit its APRS beacon without stepping on another.
For that purpose, EOSS has picked 445.975 MHz and 144.340 MHz, both of
which have been proven to be QRM-free during past flights. The 144.39
MHz APRS backbone would eventually get you gated into the internet,
provided you include IGATE in you path; but that freq is extremely
busy in the Denver area, even for terrestrial stations. We tried it
once during a flight, and our KPC-3's mind got blown ascending above
40K' and it stopped generating position reports. And any APRS
beacon hitting on 144.39 every 11 sec is sure to create consternation
amongst the Front Range APRS community.

In the event of an APRS failure, EOSS is prepared to manually track
the balloons and make cell phone reports.

Now, you are not the only balloon team that would like to downlink
more frequent reports. EOSS would like to as well. So what we have
done in those cases is to carry two APRS beacons on each balloon.
One operates on one of the shared freqs with 60-sec time slotted
time, lat/lon and altitude, while the busier downlink goes on a
separate freq. And it's not a bad idea to carry up a spare beacon -
it's saved EOSS's bacon many times in the past!

An easy, albeit costly, backup beacon can be built using a Kenwood
D-7 HT plus any GPS receiver that has NMEA $GPGGA serial output.
Or the cheap route is to get a Dyoincs TinyTrak 3 and a cheap HT
(Alinco DJ-C5 dual-bander is flight proven), plus the GPS; this does
require more sweat equity, however. Either one can yield a flight-
ready package that weighs under 1.7 lb with antenna and 48-hrs of
battery.

If neither of these alternatives is acceptable, then I'd propose that
you do you own thing and accept the responsibility for making you
own FAA reports. At launch and up thru FL230, call DIA Tracon Ops
at 303-342-1590; above that up thru FL600, call Denver Center Military
Desk at 303-651-4252. Let them know your cell phone number. Reverse
that process during descent, and call 'em both when you've landed.
These reports should include your flight ID (EOSS-67C, which will
have been filed on our HiBal Notice), altitude, time and VOR position
(3-letter VOR ID, mag radial and NM range) For this flight, suggest
you use the Falcon (FQF) VOR. The controller will advise you at
which altitude to make your next report. (They normally ask for
FL230, 350, 450 and 600 in ascent and dscent, but if we're close to
DIA, they may want more frequent reports). These reports should be
no more than 3 minutes old when you call 'em in.

For Merle K0YUK: can you let Bill know what fill tube diameter
to use with a 1200 gm Kaysam?

"W. A. Hiscock" wrote:

Mike:

Sorry for the delay, I finally have some answers for your questions. See
below.

And we should all refer to the workshop as the "Space Grant Workshop",
not the CU workshop, please.

Mike Manes wrote:


1. Parachute diameter or MSL terminal descent rate w/ 12# load.
Parachute diameter is 9 feet; terminal descent rate w/12# load is rated
at 15-20 fps.

2. Beacon weight in flight configuration. (this deducts from the
allowable balloonsat load)
Not counting the parachute (as I know EOSS does not), our beacon (we
call it the "command capsule") total weight is anticipated to be about
1800 g, or just under four pounds.

3. Beacon callsign and SSID (-11 preferred).
KD7MFJ-11

4. Which bands / freqs can you downlink on?
We usually downlink our APRS packets on 144.39, which is not so crowded
up here in MT.

Our preference would be to stay in the 2 m band. We also like to send
packets more often than 1/minute (we usually send at the max possible
rate, 11 sec. period with our equipment). It would be ideal for us to
have our APRS tracking on a 2-m frequency offset from the other balloons
so that we can utilize a high packet rate and not get involved in time
slotting (which we've never done -- I'm very leery about trying new
things, esp. with so many other folks on the airwaves).

5. Can your beacon transmissions be time-slotted to a particular second
after the top of each GPS minute? (Provides for freq sharing w/
other beacons).
We have no experience with this, and, as I said above, I'd rather not be
experimenting with new techniques when the emphasis is on a safe ride
for the workshop balloonsats.

Finally, a question for your regarding balloon fill plumbing: we've used
1500g Kaysams, but never a 1200 g. Is the nozzle diameter the same as
the 1500? We need to make sure we've got the right diameter pipe to do
the fill.

Looking forward to the GPSL,

Bill

P.S. I think Chris may have already mentioned this idea, but I think it
would be very valuable to have a dinner of all the team Flight Directors
(EOSS, TVNSP, ANSP, MT BOREALIS, plus Chris and myself representing the
SG workshop), possibly on Thursday, to do final coordination on plans
and frequencies, as we did last year. Saturday morning is just too
hectic.

*****************************************************************
William A. Hiscock (406)-994-6170
Professor of Physics (406)-994-4452 (FAX)
Director, Montana Space Grant Consortium hiscock@...
261A EPS Building KD7MFF
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717-3840
http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/hiscock
*****************************************************************
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein
--
****************************************************************
William A. Hiscock (406)-994-6170
Professor of Physics (406)-994-4452 (FAX)
Director, Montana Space Grant Consortium KD7MFF
hiscock@...
http://www.montana.edu/wwwph/faculty/hiscock.html
261A EPS, Montana State University, Bozeman, MT 59717-3840
****************************************************************
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein




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Re: GPSL East?

Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
 

There is now a possiblity that HABITAT SkyLab may launch locally during GPSL
2003 in June.

There is also the possiblity we could in July (and/or ?), again locally.

Don

Don Pfister wrote:

--- paul.verhage@... wrote:
To: GPSL@...
From: <paul.verhage@...>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:33:47 -700
Subject: [GPSL] GPSL East?

Is there an interest in launching balloons in the Kansas/Nebraska
area after GPSL? I'll be visiting my parents during the 4th of July
holidays. Perhaps a second GPSL can be arranged for this time.

Paul
--

[Signature File]
Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF

Founder of HABITAT SkyLab
(High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking)

PFranc of KS.

Re: GPSL Launches

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Paul,

A bit of a letdown from the 6 we did last year - guess Denver is just
too far off the beaten path to attract that many balloon groups :={.
How's the NWSL coming along?

73 de Mike W5VSI

paul.verhage@... wrote:


If you and whomever TVNSP comes along can track and recover >three<
balloons, then go for it. But CU and EOSS have agreed to support
only a max of five balloons for GPSL & the CU Workshop. To date,
those will be EOSS(1), ANSR(1), Mt St(1) and TVNSP (2). K.I.L.L!
The 6th balloon and gas are held in reserve for launch contingency
only.
Thansk for the info. I'll launch just two balloons.

Paul


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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: GPSL A/V & i'net?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Paul,

Let Bill know which fill tube diameter needed for a 1200 gm Kaysam,
in case Merle missed my earlier embedded request replying to Bill's
email.

Thanks for getting the weight down! Assuming the worst-case (700 gm)
balloonsat weight, here's the 'sat allocation per flight string:

EOSS (EOSS-67A): 8.0 lb, 5 sats
ANSR (EOSS-67B): 7.5 lb, 4 sats
Mt State (EOSS-67C): 8.0 lb, 5 sats
TVNSP-A (EOSS-67D): 7.0 lb, 4 sats
TVNSP-B (EOSS-67E): 7.0 lb, 4 sats.
Total: 37.5 lb, 22 @ 700 gm sats.
(The EOSS-67 stuff is for FAA "side number" reporting purposes only)

This may be just right, depending on the number of teams attending
the SGC Workshop. If the 'sats come in at 500 gm, then the 37.5 lb
limit will go a whole lot farther.

73 de Mike W5VSI

paul.verhage@... wrote:


How much assistance will you need to fill two ballons in time for
a mass launch at 0900? EOSS is having to grub a bit for balloon prep
crews. Maybe you could bend a few TVNSP arms to join you? More the
merrier.
I'm trying to get a few TVNSPers out this way. Dr. Hiscock and
the Montana Boys will help me with the filling and launching.

Which KD4STH SSIS's will you be using? We need these to get 'em set
up for the FAA VOR reports on wxqa.com.
I'll use KD4STH-11 and 9.

I'll work on the weight and get it down to 5 pounds each.

Paul


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Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein