Date   
Fw: [Solar-Raycing] Re: Lithium Ion / Ion Polymer Battery fires

Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
 

Forwarded from Solar-Raycing e-mail list. -w0rpk

----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Klapp" <klappda@...>
To: <Solar-Raycing@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: [Solar-Raycing] Re: Lithium Ion / Ion Polymer Battery fires


Id like to through my own two cents in about liIon fires, having witnessed
one first hand. I think many people may be getting a misconception here.
Unless you have a liquid or gelcell type LiIon i would not worry about
Lithium metals at all. In a dry cell or polymer type battery the Lithium
is typically locked in some other compound, aka a ceramic powder usually.
This doesn't present much of a lithium issue because you wont obtain the
necessary heat to release it.
What you do need to worry is three fold.

First you need to worry about the other materials in these batteries. All
of these batteries contain plastics of one type or another. This is the
material the burns and this is the stuff you do not want to breathe. Ask
any firefighter and he will tell you that you can die in a fire simply
from breathing the smoke from a small toothbrush.

Second thing you need to do is fight the heat. When the fire i witnessed
was finally put out the battery box had been filled with water. But the
SCARY part was standing there looking at this batter box literally boiling
off about 30 gallons of water. The only way to put one of these fires out
is to cool the cells back down below that thermal runaway point, and water
doesn't cut it. After water in the box had boiled off the firemen used CO2
extinguishers to get the pack temp down. This finally brought the pack
back into a safe state.

Third you do not want to used an extinguisher with an electrically
conductive substance in it. This will only make the situation worse. If
you have a shorted cell that started the fire thats bad enough but you
absolutely do not want to make rest of the pack into one. The heat from
these batteries comes from inside. Its not from burning materials on the
exterior. Soo again dont short the pack just to put out the flames for
this is the secondary concern.

Heres what every team should look for. A COLD DRY type of extinguisher
that has no electrically conductive medium in it. Nitrogen or CO2. You
must basically freeze the pack to stop the fire. Also note that no
extinguisher that you can carry in this car will be large enough to put
the fire out alone. The small extinguisher that you carry will be used for
only one reason, to get the driver out alive. All these teams should carry
and identical Large (the industrial type) extinguisher in a close support
vehicle. If you have the budget get 2.

Just typing this email brings this fire back to mind. If anyone has any
questions about what happened or how it was extinguished please feel free
to email me directly at klappda@.... I would not want to see
anyone get killed in this type of fire. Please be careful with these cells
for they are still in infancy and need time to mature. Check to make sure
all battery connections are tight and also check whatever temp sensing you
have on this pack as frequently as possible.

Good luck everyone
Safe Race
Dave Klapp
Clarkson University
Clarkson Solar Knights

Cell Phone?

paul.verhage@...
 

Mike, can I get a cell phone number for someone at GPSL? I'll
bring a cell phone with me and would like to know where to call if I
run into a problem.

Thanks,
Paul

Re: Counting balloons

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Mark,

I'll put the Big APRS as W5VSI-11/digi EOSS/node BALNOD on 144.34.
The EOSS launch site will be W5VSI-1, and if things go smoothly
after launch, I'll be available for a shot at EBBE.

That forecast is totally bad news for GPSL outta Deer Trail - puts
us right smack into DIA Class B airspace and possibly even inside
the airport perimeter! Hope our local winds don't do that to us!
We gotta go east, even just a bit, for this one.

For DOn: hope you can participate vicariouly. GL!

73 de Mike W5VSI


Mark Conner wrote:


NSTAR will have a digipeater on 144.34 with alias NSTAR. If any
of the Colorado balloons flying a 144.34 MHz APRS payload would
like to attempt a digipeat through us, let me know. This won't
be a 2-way QSO record, but simply to see if data can be passed
from one balloon to another over a distance of a few hundred
miles.

We have a somewhat peculiar wind profile forecast for next
Saturday. The NSTAR forecast track is to the northwest about 15
miles, which is OK for us but not by much.

73 de Mark N9XTN

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pfister" <ka0jlf@...>
To: <GPSL@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:12
Subject: Re: [GPSL] Counting balloons


I will try to monitor as best I can. Is there going to be an
EBBE attempt? I might
be able to hit that while mobile.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: Ramada Inn name change

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Rick,

Hey, thanks for that tip! I looked for the Ramada enroute to HamCon
last week and never saw it. You get the Gold Star for that piece of
recon!

73 de Mike W5VSI

Rick von Glahn wrote:


For those of you who made reservations at the Ramada Inn at Boulder,
that hotel has undergone a name change. It is now the Boulder Outlook
Hotel and Suites. I meandered up there yesterday to check it out and
discovered this change.

I photographed the Hotel from the most likely driving approach for your
assistance in not seeing a familiar Ramada signpost. For more info see:

http://gpsl.eoss.org/accomodations.htm

73 -- Rick, N�KKZ


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
GPSL-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: Counting balloons

Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
 

NSTAR will have a digipeater on 144.34 with alias NSTAR. If any
of the Colorado balloons flying a 144.34 MHz APRS payload would
like to attempt a digipeat through us, let me know. This won't
be a 2-way QSO record, but simply to see if data can be passed
from one balloon to another over a distance of a few hundred
miles.

We have a somewhat peculiar wind profile forecast for next
Saturday. The NSTAR forecast track is to the northwest about 15
miles, which is OK for us but not by much.

73 de Mark N9XTN

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pfister" <ka0jlf@...>
To: <GPSL@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:12
Subject: Re: [GPSL] Counting balloons




I will try to monitor as best I can. Is there going to be an
EBBE attempt? I might
be able to hit that while mobile.

Ramada Inn name change

Rick von Glahn <rickvg@...>
 

For those of you who made reservations at the Ramada Inn at Boulder,
that hotel has undergone a name change. It is now the Boulder Outlook
Hotel and Suites. I meandered up there yesterday to check it out and
discovered this change.

I photographed the Hotel from the most likely driving approach for your
assistance in not seeing a familiar Ramada signpost. For more info see:

http://gpsl.eoss.org/accomodations.htm


73 -- Rick, NØKKZ

Re: Counting balloons

Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
 

Don Pfister wrote:

I'll keep you posted. It may be next weekend (first weekend in June) before I
know for sure.

Don

HABITAT SkyLab
Ok, it is official, we won't be able to participate next weekend. I hate to miss
GPSL but it is unavoidable.

I will try to monitor as best I can. Is there going to be an EBBE attempt? I might
be able to hit that while mobile.

Good fortune to those that fly! We will be thinking about all in participation.

--

[Signature File]
Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF
PFranc of KS - GPS cables and connectors

Founder of HABITAT SkyLab
(High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking)

view stations on the web real time (~3 minute updates):
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF*

EOSS attendees for GPSL Conference, Fri 13 June?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi,

I need a pretty accurate count of how many EOSS folks intend to
participate in the GPSL Conference in Boulder next Fri 6/13, 0900 -
1600. And I also need to know how many EOSSians plan to join us at
the GPSL banquet at Turley's in Boulder at 5 PM that evening so I can
make reservations.

So please let me know ASAP each of your plans re:
Conference?
Banquet?

You can get details on the EOSS web site, but in a nutshell, there's
no charge for the conference, but on-campus parking will be hard to
find, so pooling is recommended. And morning snacks, pizza lunch and
the banquet will be at your own expense.

And don't forget that the T&R net for EOSS-67 will be held at >> 7 PM <<
rather than 8 that evening on the 147.225 machine. Launch of 6
ballons will be from Deer Trail at 0900 the next morning, Sat 6/14.

Hope to see you there!

73 de Mike W5VSI
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

GPSL conference internet access

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Chris,

Great! I have a 10/100BaseT NIC with RJ-45 on my laptop. This will
also be very handy for getting the latest trajectory forecast for
Saturday.

Is there any trick required to access your network i'net port?

BTW, what's the latest re balloonsat count? I assume we're still
looking at 600 gm each?

And have you got directions to the GPSL meeting room yet?

Best regards, Mike

Chris Koehler wrote:


The room does not have speaker box capabilities but we can get internet
hooked up. Your lap top will need a network port.

Chris Koehler
Deputy Director
Colorado Space Grant Consortium
University of Colorado at Boulder
303-492-4750
spacegrant.colorado.edu
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Long-range forecast for 14th

n9xtn@...
 

The forecast for next weekend isn't quite as nice as it looked earlier in the week. The last three runs of the GFS model indicate unsettled weather through the central US from Thursday to Sunday. A series of weak disturbances will cross from California to the Ohio River valley triggering occasional showers and thunderstorms through the period.

Saying we will or won't have rain Saturday morning is a tough call eight days out, but the chances are greater than normal. The showers should be isolated, so it may be possible to wait it out that morning. Sunday doesn't look any better or worse.

With such a weak pattern, the winds at the surface and aloft should be light when outside the influence of nearby storms. Eyeballing this morning's GFS soundings for both sites shows short chases for both groups.

73 de Mark N9XTN

EOSS-67 A-F HiBal Notice

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Subject notice is attached as a Word97 .doc file. It has been
faxed separately. Please call if there are any questions.

Regards, Mike Manes, EOSS

--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Predictions started

Rick von Glahn <rickvg@...>
 

The flight predictions for Saturday, June 14, 2003 are now being posted.

I'm posting for the EOSS payload configuration but these predictions
should be ok as a guide for all balloon flights on that day. Naturally,
each group will want to tailor the flight parameters for their systems.

http://www.eoss.org/flight/prediction.htm

73 -- Rick, NØKKZ

Re: GPSL head count

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Ralph and John,

Doggone! Sorry you were forced to change plans. Be assured that you
will be sorely missed! I know that a bunch of folks were looking
forward to meeting you.

We'd still like to see the product of all the work you've put in to
your presentation on packet radio range, however, so if it's not too
much trouble, please shoot me a CD to:

Mike Manes W5VSI
6002 W. Alder Ave
Littleton CO 80128-6037
Tel 303-979-4899

For John: Glad to have you and your students come aboard. Hope you
find out what ticks with all these balloontics! BTW, you may know
GPSL is being held in conjuction with the NASA Space Grant BalloonSat
Workshop being hosted by CU. From what I can find, U. ND has not
yet attended this forum, but you might wish to touch base with a
fellow from SD Mines who will be here this year:

Larry Stetler, SD School of Mines & Technology
lstetler@...

Best regards,
Mike Manes W5VSI, EOSS

John C Nordlie wrote:


Hi Ralph.

Sorry to hear you won't be there! It would have been cool to
compare notes.

I am bringing two student members of our group along, and all
three of us plan on attending the banquet and conference, plus the
launch.

=========================================================================
John Nordlie N0RNB | Regional Weather Information Center
nordlie@... | University of North Dakota
701-777-6112 / 701-777-3888 fax | PO Box 9007, Grand Forks, ND 58202-9007
http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/
=========================================================================

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Ralph Wallio, W0RPK wrote:

John,

Mike Manes, W5VSI and EOSS President, is making final plans for GPSL2003 in
Boulder. He is counting attendees for meals, et al., including the Friday
evening banquet. Please advise Mike of your intention to attend any portion
of this gathering in conjunction with your participation in the Colorado
Space Grant workshop.

Regardless of our recent e-mail discussion, my plans have taken an
unexpected bounce and I will not be there.

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/
Hubbert's Peak - The Mother of all Perfect Storms
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

GPSL attendance scrubbed

Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
 

Mike and everyone attending GPSL2003,

The conflict that scrubbed our family vacation in conjunction with attending
GPSL2003 has now made it unreasonable for me to be with you folks next week.
Sharon has a huge project underway requiring long days and long weeks at
work with staff and consultants. Yesterday she made plans that call for a
peak in work load late next week. This is all very tiring so I need to be
here to make sure she doesn't have to worry about anything but project
demands.

I apologize for creating a hole in your speaker schedule. My PowerPoint
presentation is complete save for small changes every time I go through it.
If you do not have better use for the time, I would be happy to add audio
remarks to the file and send a CD that can be played in my absence. The
discussion starts with packet radio bit error rate, moves on to link budget
analysis and ends with footprint predictions.

All of this can be reviewed in my web pages,
http://users.crosspaths.net/~wallio/ber.html then
http://users.crosspaths.net/~wallio/LINKbudg.html and finally
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/Radio%20Mobile.html. I will share my
EXCEL and Radio Mobile files with anyone interested in learning more.

I will forward your Friday banquet head count request to John Nordlie at UND
and ask him to respond directly to you.

Regards to all,

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/
Hubbert's Peak - The Mother of all Perfect Storms

Re: GPSL transport and catering?

paul.verhage@...
 

For the GPSL group: should we consider bringing in some AM snackies?
This would involve a jelly-jar payment scheme, o'course.
Sounds like a good idea to me.

Paul "where's the food?" Verhage

Re: GPSL presentation media

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Ralph,

You understand correctly. CU has the projector and SVGA cable,and
my IBM Thinkpad has a CD reader and full Office suite loaded. I can
also plug in a 3" floppy in place of the CD. I think you're set to
go!

73 de Mike W5VSI

"Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" wrote:


Mike,

I want to make sure I understand what to expect so I bring the right ammo.

As I understand it, you will provide a PC laptop and CU will provide a
projector. This is important because I do not have a laptop to bring.

I can burn all my required files on a CD if your laptop has a CD drive(?)

Will your laptop have PowerPoint or should I also bring a copy of the
freeware MS PP viewer?

How about EXCEL?

Thanks, Ralph W0RPK
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: FW: [Fwd: Restaurants]]

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Ralph et al,

Let me know how many others to expect for GPSL -- gotta get an
estimated headcount for Fri banquet reservations. So far:

EOSS: VSI, GEH, TVJ, ANI, KKZ, OLS + ?
ANSR: 3
TVNSP: 1 + ?
Mt State: ?
Others: ELK, RPK + ?

Total: 12 + ?

73 de Mike W5VSI

"Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" wrote:


Chris and Mike,

My thanks for your concern and support. Sharon needs to stay home but
daughter Stephanie of KU in Lawrence will be traveling with me on this trip.
She will help with logistics as necessary so I can be in the right places at
the right times. Steph will have a good time shopping on the Pearl Street
Mall during our discussions on Friday.

Message traffic from North Dakota indicates they may be with us:

Greetings.

I hope everyone's summer is going well. I've been contacted by
Jason Senti, who is taking over the _Zamboni_ cubesat project for the
summer over in Electrical Engineering. He asked if we could do another
flight of their satellite hardware in about three weeks. What are
peoples schedules like for this time frame?

Some things I know of: balloon conference in Boulder is June 13 -
15 (http://gpsl.eoss.org/). Mike, Ryan, and I will probably be there.
The NDRA has a high-power rocket launch on June 21, which is a problem
since several balloon group members are also rocket club members.

=========================================================================
John Nordlie N0RNB | Regional Weather Information Center
nordlie@... | University of North Dakota
701-777-6112 / 701-777-3888 fax | PO Box 9007, Grand Forks, ND 58202-9007
http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/
=========================================================================

TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
wallio@...
http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/
Hubbert's Peak - The Mother of all Perfect Storms
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: GPSL transport and catering?

Mike Manes <manes@...>
 

Hi Bernadette,

Thanks for the tips. I'm copying this to the GPSL attendees and
seek input on their preferences.

The Blackjack Pizza deal looks pretty good at the outset; please do
send me the ordering details.

For the GPSL group: should we consider bringing in some AM snackies?
This would involve a jelly-jar payment scheme, o'course.

Thanks, Mike

Bernadette Garcia wrote:


Hi Mike.

I do not know of box lunches available for $5/person. We often order
pizza if we are having a casual, low-cost meeting. Blackjack Pizza has
a special price for CU of $5.50 per large, one-topping pizza and they
will deliver to campus. You can pay with a check. As with any pizza
place, you can add cans of pop to your order. If you are interested in
this meal, I can forward you ordering instructions!

The other options are as follows:

Half-Fast Subs Catering:
They have 2-foot party subs that feed 6 - 7 people each. Each sub is
$18.50
They also have sides and beverages that can be added to your menu
Call 303-449-0404 - they can fax you a complete catering menu and answer
questions.

University of Colorado Catering:
Basic Boxed Lunch $6.25
Includes sandwich, chips, whole fruit, cookie.
Does not include beverage.
A full menu and price list can be found at:
http://umc.colorado.edu/catering/menu.html
There is also a phone number if you have questions for them.

Honeybaked Ham Catering:
Five Star boxed lunch with beverage: $6.65
Includes sandwich, side (chips, potato or pasta salad), cookies and
beverage
Call Brooke Padilla 303-940-7783. She can fax you a complete menu.

I have others, but they start at $8/person.

For breakfast, we usually use Univ. of CO catering. They have a
breakfast menus on their website as well. Their price lists are
separate from their menus. If you have trouble with the website, they
are usually pretty helpful if you call them. The other thing we do with
breakfast, is to buy bagels or doughnuts from Moe's Bagels and/or
Safeway and cater ourselves.

Please let me know if you need further info.

B
--
Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
Einstein

Re: Frequency coordination

Rick von Glahn <rickvg@...>
 

OK, I'll change that right now.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Pfister [mailto:ka0jlf@...]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:36 PM
To: GPSL@...
Subject: Re: [GPSL] Frequency coordination


Rick, the Black print on Blue is real hard read here (I can't on my
monitor). ;-)

Long-range forecast for June 14th

n9xtn@...
 

At this point, it looks pretty decent for launches in both the Omaha and Boulder areas. Some showers are possible along the Front Range, but I think they'll be mostly in the afternoon. No major surface or upper-air systems are forecast to pass through either area, and about 30-40 mile chases to the east can be expected.

In the Omaha area, we may have a setup where stronger surface winds will start later in the morning. If so, NSTAR may have to launch too far ahead of the GPSL flights to get good mutual visibility for digipeating between balloons.

Temps look to be above normal in Colorado, near or below normal in Omaha.

73 de Mark N9XTN