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Alternate launch site may be needed
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
Today's predictions for both Saturday and Sunday (6th and 7th) show
extremely light winds below 70,000 ft. Both predictions show a landing about 7 miles from the launch site on a bearing of about 020. This is in the general area of the KSU campus in Manhattan. There's not much we can do to help ourselves to get away from town given this wind profile. Going for a slower ascent rate would move the prediction north of town towards a reservoir. Going for a lower burst or cutdown would move the prediction east along the Kansas River, which in general is wooded. If this wind profile holds up (and it's a 9 day prediction after all, so it may well not), we need to investigate another launch site. The town of Alta Vista, about 15 miles south of I-70 on KS 177, would be ideal in this situation. However, I don't know if there is a park, ball diamond, or some other public open ground we could use. Alma (15 miles south of Exit 328) appears to have a high school with a football field and other open space and would also be a decent site (except for its proximity to I-70). http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp? S=10&T=1&X=3674&Y=21612&Z=14&W=2 Perhaps Paul can do some recon for us next week before the symposium. 73 de Mark N9XTN
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Re: Alternate launch site may be needed
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
How about the airport at Herrington? They wanted us to launch there before. It's
a little farther south (one of the capsules landed near there last year). Just a thought, Don Mark Conner wrote: Today's predictions for both Saturday and Sunday (6th and 7th) show-- [Signature File] Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF HABITAT SkyLab soon to add SeaLab (underwater robotics) (High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking) Email=ka0jlf@earthlink.net or ka0jlf@kc.rr.com or donp@netlab.org http://habitat.netlab.org http://www.kc.net/~dpfister - going away not sure when they will pull the plug http://www.netlab.org/~donp http://home.earthlink.net/~ka0jlf http://home.kc.rr.com/cdpfister/ http://www.netlab.org:8888/ Visit the Lab in the Hobby wing. HABITAT being built... view stations on the web real time (~3 minute updates): http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF Home http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF-9 van http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF-11 balloon
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Re: Alternate launch site may be needed
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
As I recall they had a big (old bomber base?) hanger building they were going to let
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us prep and fill in. Don Don Pfister wrote:
How about the airport at Herrington? They wanted us to launch there before. It's
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Re: Alternate launch site may be needed
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
That would be about 40 miles from Manhattan - not unreasonable, and
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sure beats not launching. I see on Mapquest there is an airport a few miles east of Herington - assume that's it. If they have a hangar we can use that morning that would be great. The only downside is that we have Junction City and Fort Riley to our north about 25 miles. If we have a 350-020 track >25 miles, we'd have to do something else. Don, do you have contacts at the Herington airport or can you get some? Sure would be nice if we could have that prearranged as an alternate site if we need it. - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Pfister <ka0jlf@earthlink.net> Date: Thursday, June 27, 2002 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [GPSL] Alternate launch site may be needed As I recall they had a big (old bomber base?) hanger building they
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ATV coordination
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
I received the following from Mike W5VSI of EOSS:
Re ATV on 434 and 439 MHz: remember that if these are NTSC AM sigs, they have sidebands running out to +/- 6 MHz around the carrier freq. Thus the 434 USB will go out to 440 Mhz, and the 439 LSB will go down to 433 MHz. Although the video bandwidth may be pretty puny at the extreme edges of the sidebands, the audio and chroma subcarriers of 4.5 and 3.58 MHz will also appear in both sidebands. Since each ATV signal occupies 12 MHz, the minimum carrier separation to avoid adjacent channel QRM is 12 MHz. So two ATV sigs will occupy 24 MHz inside a 30 MHz-wide ham band, and that's why I don't plan on bringing out ATV. For WB8ELK and KD0FW - can you separate your carrier frequencies some more, or should we just fly it as is and see what we get? I don't have any experience with ATV to have a feel for how badly this will affect us. 73 de Mark N9XTN
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Re: ATV coordination
Bill Brown
There will be some interference with strong signals from the two balloons at
434 and 439.25 MHz, but probably not too bad when they get weaker, particularly if the two balloons seperate a bit during the flight (different ascent rates will help out here).....it will be interesting and folks will have lots of multi-channel ATV to watch on Saturday. 73s de Bill WB8ELK
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Re: ATV coordination
Michael L. Bogard <kd0fw@...>
I would think that a few miles of separation and that I
will be horizontal polarized would have some effect on the out come. I think
that it would be great to see three video signals all on at the same time in the
band. If we don't try it we will never know for sure.
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Re: ATV coordination
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
I agree, if the choice is fly it this way or don't fly it, let's put it
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in the air and see what happens. 73 de Mark N9XTN
----- Original Message -----
From: wb8elk@aol.com Date: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:02 am Subject: Re: [GPSL] ATV coordination There will be some interference with strong signals from the two
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Forecast update
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
Regardless of the winds, it should be hot and humid next weekend (highs
in the 90s, dew points in the high 60s). The default ascent/descent profile I use (1000 fpm up/95kft burst/1000 fpm sea-level descent) has moved the landing to 337 at 16 miles. From the Manhattan site, that puts it down in the north part of the Fort Riley cantonment. If we use the Herington airport, the landing is in a rural area about 10-12 miles SW of Junction City. The airport's coordinates are 38.7018 N and 96.8150 W (in decimal degrees). Most any permutation of fast/slow/high-burst/low-burst gives favorable landing areas. I've attached the forecast wind profile for those who'd like to run predictions themselves. - Mark *1200Z 06 07 2002 ,UNK,Intact ,0 ,0 ,12 ,12 2641,173,13 5049,186,15 10443,175,11 19393,184,11 25030,198,13 31939,213,13 36093,243,11 40942,271,11 46864,285,6 54869,113,6 68638,88,15 87753,88,23
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Re: Forecast update
Bill Brown
Hi Mark,
It's been my experience that during July and August when there are light winds in the jet stream region, the stratospheric winds will prevail and depending on how high the balloons go, quite often you'll end up WEST of the launch site.....unless there is a front coming through, this very well might be the case for the launch. 73s de Bill WB8ELK
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One week to go
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
It appears it could be somewhat breezy next Saturday morning. A
surface low is forecast to form over the Front Range, and the gradient between than and high pressure to the southeast will make for winds from the south-southwest gusting to about 20 mph in the morning. The forecast track indicates a landing due north of the launch site at about 25 miles distance. From the Herington airport, this puts the landing just north of Junction City into the south edge of Fort Riley. From the Manhattan site, we end up within a half-mile of Tuttle Creek Lake. I've put graphics of this up at http://members.cox.net/n9xtn/gpsl-2002-forecast.gif . Still hoping for a change in the forecast, as a northerly track of this distance is kind of a problem. There is a small airport about 15 miles east of Manhattan at Wamego, a turf field near Council Grove (about 35 miles south of Manhattan), and another turf field at Onaga (30 miles NE of Manhattan). All are public and have little usage according to airnav.com, but have practically no facilities. Any of these sites would give favorable landing areas with some room for error. 73 de Mark N9XTN ------ Mark D. Conner E-mail: n9xtn@arrl.net Homepage: http://members.cox.net/mconner1 "Arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package.....how efficient of you!" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
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Repeater reminder/forecast update
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
The Manhattan Area Amateur Radio Society (MAARS) has welcomed us
to use their 147.255+ repeater while we're there. It should be quite suitable for talk-in and so forth during our stay. Today's wind profile forecast has not changed much above 20,000 ft, but is lighter out of the south below that. I think that may be the biggest variable for us in the forecast (at least as long as the next upper-level low stays far enough west). The prediction today is 354 degrees at 13 miles, which from Herington is 8 miles south of Junction City and in a good area. From the Manhattan site, the landing would be in a small area between Ft Riley and Tuttle Creek Lake. 73 de Mark N9XTN
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I'm in Kansas
pverhage1960 <paul.verhage@...>
Okay, I'm here and have some email access. If we have to move the
launch site, I'm going to have problems with the helium. Adding Don's request, I have nine tanks of helium to deal with. My little Prizm would have a hard time moving a single tank. I'll need some help here. Actually, a lot of help. I'm heading to Topeka to line up some media coverage. I'll spend the next two days at the campus checking out equipment and making copies. I'll also make reservations for meals. If we can avoid moving the launch site, that would be helpful from my end. If we have to move, we need to make plans for moving 9 tanks of helium to the site and helping me get them back to Linweld afterwards. Paul
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Monday update
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
The landing forecast is becoming somewhat more favorable for a
Herington launch. Using last night's MRF winds and replacing the forecast above 60,000 ft with real winds from Topeka, I get a landing of 323 degrees at 15 miles. This is about 8 miles south of exit 286 on I-80 and 15 miles SW of Junction City. Again, this is with a burst of 95,000 ft. Using 75,000 ft for a burst altitude moves the landing to due north at 12 miles. Don KA0JLF is working on a contact at the Herington airport. Hope to hear soon on whether we can use it. - Mark Wind data below: 2749,179,17 5161,193,17 10548,189,11 19482,193,7 25118,206,7 32005,230,3 36135,262,6 40968,271,7 46860,276,7 54797,59,3 61679,95,15 65141,76,13 68536,100,17 71167,91,19 79133,95,25 83008,97,23 87762,90,19 91210,82,23 93907,85,24 98795,90,24 102821,95,25 104445,95,25 107562,95,25
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Re: I'm in Kansas
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
Paul, do you still want me to come out and help pick up and move the helium? I
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can bring my own helium, Mike KD0FW has offered to haul it out there for me, so don't worry about that tank. As I recall we last left it, I was coming out on the 3rd to help pick up helium and take it to JNSC. I might be able to bring another body with me. I don't really have a good vehicle to move it with, but can get it done. My little car should be able to carry two tanks at a time. Is there a Uhaul there (I think I remember one) where we could rent a pickup for $19 (that's what I seen on the sides of them here)? That might make it easier. That would make the helium about $2.50 more per tank. I don't know anyone out there with a pickup, myself. Anyway, I'm waiting to help, just let me know what you need me to do. AT this point I have 5 people committed for the launch, so we should be ok. There are 3 confirmed for the symposium - Cris took a day of vacation I didn't know about - possibly the 4th person will also make the symposium. I'll let you know. Later, Don pverhage1960 wrote:
Okay, I'm here and have some email access. If we have to move the
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Re: Monday update
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
I left a voice mail, will keep trying.
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Thanks for the 75,000 prediction. I will be flying a 600/300 gram so that is about as high as I expect to get, maybe a little higher if all goes well. Don Mark Conner wrote:
Don KA0JLF is working on a contact at the Herington airport. Hope to
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Helium and Don's Help
pverhage1960 <paul.verhage@...>
Don, I'll check my cell phone when I get home. Please leave a phone
number and I'll call you tonight. Let's plan on Wednesday to get the helium. I'll need a specific location that we'll launch from. I can't store the helium at my folks place. Where ever we launch from, we need to be able to store helium there, or someone needs to be able to carry all 9 tanks until then. One possibility is to hand tanks of helium to each team at the symposium, or possibly have us all pick up our tanks that day from Linweld (time constraints here). You'd think these tanks would be lighter with all that helium in them.... This still leaves the issue of how I'm going to get the tanks back to Linweld on Monday. Linweld is open until noon on Saturday, perhaps we can have someone haul tanks after the launch. Paul
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Approval to use Herington airport for launch
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
Received the following from Don KA0JLF (HABITAT/SkyLab):
--- I just talked to Harold about the Herrington Airport. We can use it if we want. Unfortunately the hanger available is not all that big. The ceiling is about 12' and the door is 10' high. Does this seem workable? He also said we could use the areas around the runway. It holds 3 planes, two spaces are empty and will be available to us as long as no planes come in that need the space. This would be if there were a storm or something. Possibly the 3rd plane will be out too, unknown at this time. I told him, Paul and I might run down to check it out after we get the helium taken care of Wednesday. --- Don is planning to take digital pics on Wednesday so we can see what it's like at the symposium. Here are some links showing the airport's location: http://www.mapblast.com/myblast/map.mb?CT=38.7018%3A-96.815%3A200 00&myzoom.x=144&myzoom.y=13 http://www.airnav.com/airport/HRU http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=13&;T=1&X=431&Y =2678&Z=14&W=1 73 de Mark N9XTN
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Time slot rundown
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
Here's what I have for everyone's slot information. Let me know
if something's not correct. KD0FW: Using DF for recovery Traveler: Not time-slotted, interval is quasi-random. Zack, what's the approximate interval? HABITAT: Will be using a MIM on 144.34, fixed time interval set to 65 seconds. Interval to be tested. ANSR: Repeater can periodically QSY to 144.34 if repeater not in use. Mike, you can have the time slot from :24 to :35 (previously for HABITAT) for this if you wish - let me know what you decide. TVNSP: GPGGA, GPRMC, GPGSV, and BS2 output from :00 to :11 WB8ELK: APRS data from :12 to :23 NSTAR: APRS posits containing lat/lon/course/speed/alt/vertical velocity and a telemetry frame from :36 to :47 EOSS: GPRMC; GPGGA, GPGSA from :48 to :59 I think we'd prefer there not be any ground APRS transmissions on 144.34 until all the balloons are on the ground - we'll have a busy frequency as it is! Looks like ~13 packets every minute. Updated table at http://members.cox.net/n9xtn/gpsl_2002_freq_coordination.htm . See you all in Manhattan on Friday. 73 de Mark N9XTN
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AV Equipment for GPSL
kd7lmo <mgray@...>
Does anyone have a firm list of AV equipment for the presentations?
Will we have an LCD projector? VCR? laptop connection for a projector? Also, thanks to all those helping to get everything organized. Looks like it will be a good conference. Hope we get a good turn out.
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