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Topo Map
paul.verhage@...
Ralph, I'm planning to work on the GPSL logo again this weekend.
However, when I search my PC in the classroom, I can't find the topo map you emailed. I may have it at home. But if I don't, then it probably won't be until next week before I have access to email to ask for the file. Can you email me the file again? I'll start a search over the internet for a copy, just in case. I plan for the logo be just like my first suggestion, but witht he topo map of Kansas instead. Paul
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Re: 500 mile flight?
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
Well in a month, I'll be crewing for the RAAM and will travel from Portland, OR
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to Pensacola, FL basically non-stop. It took Fabio a little over 9 days to ride the race a couple of years ago, hope to be faster this time. ;-) http://www.ultracycling.com/events/raam.html http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/ I could monitor it during the race. ;-) 73 Don "Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" wrote:
The discussion of Mean Zonal Winds (MZW) at
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500 mile flight (II)
K. Mark Caviezel
Yes, I am appraised that the 30-40k feet altitude I
mention is 'right in the middle of the jetways', but I recently read "Around the World in 20 days" by Bertrand Piccard and Brian Smith, the team that circumnavigated the Earth in 1999 in a big Rozier balloon. Most all of thier flight was 15-35k feet altitude. Yes, air traffic control was an issue (particularly border crossings), but it was an issue that they surmounted within the rules of all the countries they flew over. The winter winds in general from altitudes 10k feet to 80k feet are good for a flight from here in Denver to locations east of here, but GPSL is in the summer, and my knowledge of summer winds over Denver put a cap of about 50k feet for a balloon wanting to go from here to there. The basic issues are: a). balloon vehicle capable of float, multiple altitudes desireable (I can do this) b). telemetry, control, termination. All this has been done on EOSS flights and "ES-OS" flights. c). flight prediction/flight management. Similar to what most balloon groups do for all flights anyways, with a twist of long time aloft and significant lateral travel over the ground. d). "political issues" - FAA, responsible flight with other users of aerial navigation. Piccard and Smith did it, manned, in 1999 with a champagne budget, I'd like to do it, unmanned, in 2002 with a "beer and pizza" budget. I am seeking help for those interested in helping on c). and d). to see if we (the amatuer ballooning community) can pull this off in a safe and successful manner. 73s all - KMC KC0JHQ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com
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Re: 500 mile flight (II)
Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
All of these "around-the-world" attempts were flying in the busy 15-35kft
altitude range but they were using altitude encoded radar transponders and in constant communication with air traffic control. ATC could always identify them on radar and vectored more maneuverable aircraft away from them. In my opinion, these manned flights are not reasonable operational models for much less significant unmanned missions. It is possible to fly a transponder, even with encoding, in an unmanned high altitude payload but they are expensive, ~$2,000, and they use a lot of power. It is my general impression that without a transponder and constant communications with ATC, the FAA would consider an unmanned balloon cruising at 15-35kft to be derelict and a threat to air navigation. Summer winds aloft above 60kft would not be useful for a west-to-east flight. If we want to fly during the summer above controlled air space (above 60kft) we would have to go east-to-west at a much slower speed of 4-8m/s (7-15kts, 9-18mph). A record breaking 710 mile flight would therefore take 710/13.5 = ~52 hours which is far two long for an amateur zero pressure mission. (This MZW-derived estimate compares nicely with NASA/NSBF missions in August 2000 from south central Iowa to southeastern Nebraska, roughly 200 miles in 16 hours, averaging 12.5mph.) Timing this mission for GPSL-2003 would be a problem because attendees are already completely scheduled with a busy symposium and multiple flight schedule. There would be very little, if any, time available for attendees to participate in a complicated long-duration long-haul mission. All of this takes me back to a west-to-east 60-80kft mission during the winter. Ascent and descent would be in controlled airspace but only for an hour each. The roughly 24 hour cruise would be above controlled air space so a transponder and constant ATC contact would not be required. It is easy to imagine a payload of two <6-pound packages, including ballast dumping, so the flight would be exempt. A winter flight would allow the eastern recovery troops to dedicate a weekend to the mission while driving long distances to be in the right place at the right time for descent and touchdown. Home stations at intermediate distances, spaced ~200 miles apart, could capture telemetry and report their observations. They could also be equipped for an "emergency" cutdown command if system failure allowed descent into controlled air space. It is reasonable to believe that a recovery team can be put together at this end (Iowa, Illinois, et al.), that intermediate stations can be recruited for any possible flight track, and that winds aloft data and track prediction processes are dependable. I believe this can be done and safely. TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK wallio@crosspaths.net http://members.crosspaths.net/wallio Optimal solutions do not always exist
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Logo
paul.verhage@...
I've designed a logo for GPSL but arranged to leave the diskette at
home. I'll post it tomorrow. I'd like the motto for this year's GPSL to be, "100,000 feet. Been There, Done That". Paul
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re 500 mile flight
K. Mark Caviezel
Points well made, Ralph.
I'll just leave the proposal on the table, see if we form a critical mass to move this project forward. My goal is not to break the distance record, but rather to navigate a balloon to within a reasonable radius of a desired target far away. Denver- Manhattan seems do-able technically, but clearly ATC "buy-in" needs to happen. - KMC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com
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Re: Logo
Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
Paul is doing the vast majority of the work to put GPSL-2002 together so I
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will bow deeply to him and accept this motto. However, we should understand how unusual it is to reach 100,000ft. In the process of collecting data for discussions about Mean Zonal Winds (http://users.crosspaths.net/~wallio/MZW.html) and Ascent Rate Variations (http://users.crosspaths.net/wallio/ASCENT.html) you folks sent me a lot of flight data for missions past. For Mean Zonal Winds I accepted mission data from before and after SA was turned off on 02May00 and we have a total of 54 missions in the study. Only 4 of those missions went above 100,000ft which is 7.4%. For analysis of Ascent Rate Variations I only used data from missions after SA was turned off. There were a total of 28 missions in the study of which only 2 went above 100,000ft. Again, that is 7.1%. This indicates we are not flying higher as time goes by. It appears we should not be overselling our collective ability to make it to 100,000ft because it happens less than 1 flight out of 10. TNX es 73 de Ralph Wallio, W0RPK wallio@crosspaths.net http://members.crosspaths.net/wallio Results may not be reproducible
----- Original Message -----
From: <paul.verhage@boiseschools.org> To: <GPSL@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:13 AM Subject: [GPSL] Logo I've designed a logo for GPSL but arranged to leave the diskette at
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GPSL Logo
paul.verhage@...
Here's the logo (that I left at home yesterday). Feel free to use it,
there is no copyright or anything like that (unless you plan to make a million bucks with it). It's a Corel Draw file. Apparently I forgot to copy the BMP vsrsion of it. If someone can convert CDR files to BMPs or GIFs, please do. Paul
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Re: Logo
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
I think most of us have the *ability* to get to 100,000 ft, but
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some of us have not tried very hard on most flights. The baseline for a 100kft effort, when you're lifting more than 2-3 lbs., is a 1200g balloon. To me, anyone flying less than a 1200g balloon with more than a flyweight payload is not expecting 100kft. For NSTAR, I've flown only 4 1200g balloons in 10 flights (none larger). Three of these four were deliberately overfilled to decrease the flight distance, which means that I'm 0 for 1 (01-B) in actual attempts at 100kft. It would be interesting to see the numbers for 1200g-and-larger balloons flown. I believe everyone at GPSL is planning to use 1200g. 73 de Mark N9XTN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Wallio, W0RPK" <wallio@crosspaths.net> To: <GPSL@yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Paul Verhage, KD4STH" <paul.verhage@boiseschools.org> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 07:41 Subject: Re: [GPSL] Logo It appears we should not be overselling our collective abilityto make it to 100,000ft because it happens less than 1 flight out of 10.
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Re: GPSL Logo
paul.verhage@...
The file should be in color.
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We've got Corel at the campus, I'll try running the conversion after my first class. Paul
I have software that can make the conversion (XnView) but the CDR file is
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Re: GPSL Logo
Ralph Wallio, W0RPK <wallio@...>
I have software that can make the conversion (XnView) but the CDR file is
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displaying with many gray line artifacts within the state outline that don't appear to look right(?) -w0rpk
----- Original Message -----
From: <paul.verhage@boiseschools.org> To: <GPSL@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: [GPSL] GPSL Logo Here's the logo (that I left at home yesterday). Feel free to use it,
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Re: Frequency Coordination
ka0jlf <ka0jlf@...>
--- In GPSL@y..., "Mark Conner" <n9xtn@c...> wrote:
I can keep track of the various modes, frequencies, etc.Do I understand this exchange to mean we are not going to keep the info on the groups page? I have been waiting to see what was being used before I decided. However, it does not look like all of us can view it as a collection. I think sharing the info would be good, isn't that why this group was created? What if we keep it in the files area or create a Database? I have not created or used a Database in Yahoo Groups, this may not be a good idea. However, I would be will to give it a try. Input from the rest of you? Thanks, Don I will go back to being silent.
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Re: Frequency Coordination
Mark Conner <n9xtn@...>
The intent is to make all this public. I haven't had the time to
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compile what I've gotten into a easy-to-read form. Even a simple HTML page is probably sufficient. I haven't found the Yahoo database stuff to be all that useful. Everything I've received has been through the GPSL or KNSP group e-mail so if you review the archive in the last month or so you'll know what I know. - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "ka0jlf" <ka0jlf@earthlink.net> Date: Thursday, May 23, 2002 2:05 pm Subject: [GPSL] Re: Frequency Coordination --- In GPSL@y..., "Mark Conner" <n9xtn@c...> wrote:I can keep track of the various modes, frequencies, etc.Do I understand this exchange to mean we are not going to keep the
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Re: Frequency Coordination
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
Thanks Mark, I didn't intend to make more work for anyone. I'll see what I can
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do. Don Mark Conner wrote:
The intent is to make all this public. I haven't had the time to
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Re: Frequency Coordination
mgray@...
I created a file in the Files Section of the Yahoo group that contains
a list of frequencies, etc for the ANSR flight. If someone wants to copy this file, they can add the frequencies for all the missions into a single file. From sentto-6764416-33-1022186316-mgray=ess-us.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 13:39:07 2002 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6764416-33-1022186316-mgray=ess-us.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com X-Sender: ka0jlf@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com References: <27984e20.4e202798@aer.com> From: Don Pfister <ka0jlf@earthlink.net> X-Yahoo-Profile: ka0jlf MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list GPSL@yahoogroups.com; contact GPSL-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list GPSL@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:GPSL-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:38:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Frequency Coordination Reply-To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Mark, I didn't intend to make more work for anyone. I'll see what I can do. Don Mark Conner wrote: > The intent is to make all this public. I haven't had the time to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: GPSL-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Got Helium?
paul.verhage@...
I need to know how many people need helium for GPSL. If
someone will be local to Manhattan on the 3rd and can help move helium, please let me know (I have a small Prizm and can't carry 150 pound tanks in it). Tanks, Paul
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100k feet?
K. Mark Caviezel
7.4% of flights going to over 100k feet is a heck of a
lot more frequent than most anything else that flies. Paul points out that many missions don't realistically expect to break 100k, but if the flight operators 'simply' put some extra money into a larger balloon, then it would happen with more frequency. I like Paul's slogan for the GPSL. - KMC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com
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Re: Got Helium?
paul.verhage@...
Paul, I'll take one tank of helium. I could drive out to Manhattan and helpLinweld won't deliver. I have to carry the tanks out myself. Paul
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Re: Got Helium?
Don Pfister <ka0jlf@...>
Paul, I'll take one tank of helium. I could drive out to Manhattan and help
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(manpower) but my car too is small. What about delivery? Does the gas place charge for delivery or is it going to be delivered to the school? Don paul.verhage@boiseschools.org wrote:
I need to know how many people need helium for GPSL. If
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Re: Got Helium?
paul.verhage@...
I have carried one tank in my car, I should be able to get at least two in there.The center locks, so the tanks will be safe. Paul
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