Date   

Re: New bumper sticker

Bill Brown
 

Maybe change it to "Keeping your head above the clouds since 1987". -Bill WB8ELK


On Feb 14, 2019, at 9:29 PM, L. Paul Verhage KD4STH <nearsys@...> wrote:

I came up with a new ARHAB bumper sticker idea during dinner at Blaze Pizza.


<head in the clouds.JPG>


New bumper sticker

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I came up with a new ARHAB bumper sticker idea during dinner at Blaze Pizza.



Re: Bill you missed out on a business opportunity

Steve AE8AT
 

Bill,

Thank you for the write up. Enthralling read!

Steve
AE8AT


Re: Bill you missed out on a business opportunity

Jayant Murthy
 

Thanks for writing this. I feel that many of the "new space" people are more caught up with cool than needed.
Jayant

On Thursday, February 14, 2019, 8:49:44 AM GMT+5:30, Bill Brown via Groups.Io <wb8elk@...> wrote:


As often is the case, the pioneers in technology are too far in advance of demand. All I see here is a small rocket launched from a not-very-high hot air balloon. I do wish them success and hopefully they have worked out the math for the optimum liftoff altitude and rocket thrust (and weight) necessary to achieve orbit. There have been dozens of Rockoon startups with fancy CGI graphics, a nicely edited video and great background music who then disappear when they find funding is hard to raise. A hot-air-balloon (or high-altitude zero pressure balloon) would have to be capable of lifting thousands of pounds of rocket to place a small toaster-size payload into LEO orbit and would have to be above 70,000 feet to make it worthwhile. A rockoon is indeed a great first stage replacement. The rocket can be about 25 percent of the weight of an equivalent ground-based launch plus the rocket motor nozzle is more efficient in a near vacuum BUT it is also much harder to ignite in a near vacuum and -60 deg temperatures. We did work out how to do that using a series of weather balloon flights. A small rocket can make it into Space itself but it would come right back down again. Very useful for microgravity and sounding rocket experiments. Plus it gives you the flexibility of moving your launchsite around on a boat which we proved out 20 years ago since you can cancel out the surface winds completely by steering the boat along with the wind (up to the speed limitation of the boat). James Van Allen sent some of his rockoons thousands of miles into Space but didn't achieve orbital velocity and he also did most of his flights from the decks of Navy ships. That's where you need a much heavier rocket to achieve orbit, even with a Rockoon.

They seem to imply that they will be using a hot air balloon at 58,000 feet to launch their rockoon. While I was at the NearSpace Conference in Poland I had to pleasure to hear a talk about a fellow who took a hot-air balloon to 32,000 feet and beyond. It took an enormous redesign of their propane burners to work at that altitude and even after all their design efforts they still failed to keep burning after they got close to their altitude goal. I did find a story about a balloon pilot in India who made it to 69850 feet but the hot air balloon envelope was enormous and likely not capable of lifting thousands of pounds of rocket in addition.

The available launchsites for a Rockoon are very limited. Basically Black Rock Desert in Nevada, Spaceport America in New Mexico, some of the larger military bases and even a possibility in Sheboygan WI across Lake Michigan. However you cannot go past the range limits which is a real problem for a high altitude balloon and even worse you would have to prove that your rocket will land within the range after going into Space and back if it fails to achieve orbit. We solved that problem by heading out to sea on a large oil supply boat and had to be 200 miles from the coastline to launch the rocket. And yes we had FAA permission and also had to coordinate with the Coast Guard, the Navy and the Air Force. It actually took longer to get permission from all of these agencies than it did to design and build the Rockoon system. We flew a 400 pound rocket from a 500,000 cubic foot Raven zero-pressure balloon....it took 33 tanks of helium.

 So it boils down to whether a hot air balloon of that magnitude and flight logistics combined with the range limitations is a cost effective way to launch small satellites with a 25 percent lighter-weight rocket than a ground-based rocket. 

- Bill WB8ELK


-----Original Message-----
From: Zack Clobes W0ZC <zclobes@...>
To: GPSL <GPSL@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2019 6:02 pm
Subject: [GPSL] Bill you missed out on a business opportunity


Re: Bill you missed out on a business opportunity

Bill Brown
 

As often is the case, the pioneers in technology are too far in advance of demand. All I see here is a small rocket launched from a not-very-high hot air balloon. I do wish them success and hopefully they have worked out the math for the optimum liftoff altitude and rocket thrust (and weight) necessary to achieve orbit. There have been dozens of Rockoon startups with fancy CGI graphics, a nicely edited video and great background music who then disappear when they find funding is hard to raise. A hot-air-balloon (or high-altitude zero pressure balloon) would have to be capable of lifting thousands of pounds of rocket to place a small toaster-size payload into LEO orbit and would have to be above 70,000 feet to make it worthwhile. A rockoon is indeed a great first stage replacement. The rocket can be about 25 percent of the weight of an equivalent ground-based launch plus the rocket motor nozzle is more efficient in a near vacuum BUT it is also much harder to ignite in a near vacuum and -60 deg temperatures. We did work out how to do that using a series of weather balloon flights. A small rocket can make it into Space itself but it would come right back down again. Very useful for microgravity and sounding rocket experiments. Plus it gives you the flexibility of moving your launchsite around on a boat which we proved out 20 years ago since you can cancel out the surface winds completely by steering the boat along with the wind (up to the speed limitation of the boat). James Van Allen sent some of his rockoons thousands of miles into Space but didn't achieve orbital velocity and he also did most of his flights from the decks of Navy ships. That's where you need a much heavier rocket to achieve orbit, even with a Rockoon.

They seem to imply that they will be using a hot air balloon at 58,000 feet to launch their rockoon. While I was at the NearSpace Conference in Poland I had to pleasure to hear a talk about a fellow who took a hot-air balloon to 32,000 feet and beyond. It took an enormous redesign of their propane burners to work at that altitude and even after all their design efforts they still failed to keep burning after they got close to their altitude goal. I did find a story about a balloon pilot in India who made it to 69850 feet but the hot air balloon envelope was enormous and likely not capable of lifting thousands of pounds of rocket in addition.

The available launchsites for a Rockoon are very limited. Basically Black Rock Desert in Nevada, Spaceport America in New Mexico, some of the larger military bases and even a possibility in Sheboygan WI across Lake Michigan. However you cannot go past the range limits which is a real problem for a high altitude balloon and even worse you would have to prove that your rocket will land within the range after going into Space and back if it fails to achieve orbit. We solved that problem by heading out to sea on a large oil supply boat and had to be 200 miles from the coastline to launch the rocket. And yes we had FAA permission and also had to coordinate with the Coast Guard, the Navy and the Air Force. It actually took longer to get permission from all of these agencies than it did to design and build the Rockoon system. We flew a 400 pound rocket from a 500,000 cubic foot Raven zero-pressure balloon....it took 33 tanks of helium.

 So it boils down to whether a hot air balloon of that magnitude and flight logistics combined with the range limitations is a cost effective way to launch small satellites with a 25 percent lighter-weight rocket than a ground-based rocket. 

- Bill WB8ELK


-----Original Message-----
From: Zack Clobes W0ZC <zclobes@...>
To: GPSL <GPSL@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2019 6:02 pm
Subject: [GPSL] Bill you missed out on a business opportunity


Bill you missed out on a business opportunity

Zack Clobes W0ZC
 


Cold air

Joe WB9SBD
 

With the super cold temps we have had here the past two days It was 30 below this morning. 60+ below wind chill.

But anyway the 30 below got me to wonder what the temps aloft were like and was amazed, at the lower levels it actually gets warmer as you go up. Interesting!

Joe WB9SBD

--

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
--

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com


Re: Updates to KML Log Konverter

Carlton Corbitt
 

Hi Zach,

Thanks for posting, i had been planning on using some time this winter to get together some videos on past flights.
I didn't konw of Konverter, but i'll give the tool a try,  it should help me speed up the process some.

Carlton
KI4NHK


Updates to KML Log Konverter

Zack Clobes W0ZC
 

I'm not sure if anyone is using my KML Konverter tool, but I recently updated it to include telemetry data in the spreadsheet output file.  Any arbitrary data sets within the comments section of the APRS packet will be broken out and listed in the download.  See the announcement for more information.




Zack Clobes, W0ZC
Project: Traveler
www.projecttraveler.org

Join us on Facebook for the latest information:



Project: Traveler is a research project of Custom Digital Services, LLC.


HAB video from Chile

Mark Conner N9XTN
 


Texas Groups?

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I'm looking for someone near Houston that can launch a weather balloon for a student. Thanks


Long duration high altitude balloons

Mark Conner N9XTN
 


Selection of Frequencies and repeaters.

Jason Unwin
 

I am going to start putting repeaters into my new Yaesu FT2D. I have a few questions:

1. How do you select the repeaters to use for your launches?

2. How do you decide on the frequencies to use for the launch?

 

 

Again, I'm trying to get something going here in Oklahoma. 

 

Jason Unwin

KF5UEF


The Stargazing Almanac

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

For anyone interested in my stargazing newsletter, I just posted December's. It's at, https://stargazingalmanac.substack.com/


Re: Rasberry Pi and High Altitude Balloons

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

My last three articles in Nuts and Volts cover this topic. I have notes and code in each article.


On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 4:31 PM Jason Unwin via Groups.Io <generalripper_1999=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Our Civil Air Patrol Squadron got some Raspberry Pi kits for STEM activities. We might have a couple left over when we are done. I am wondering if there are any kits or additional "sensors" we can add to the basic Raspberry Pi for a HAB flight. Specifically something to help track the payloads and possibly a way to log air temperature, density, humidity, or maybe even cosmic radiation. Any thoughts and links to ideas is greatly appreciated.


Jason Unwin
KF5UEF


Rasberry Pi and High Altitude Balloons

Jason Unwin
 

Our Civil Air Patrol Squadron got some Raspberry Pi kits for STEM activities. We might have a couple left over when we are done. I am wondering if there are any kits or additional "sensors" we can add to the basic Raspberry Pi for a HAB flight. Specifically something to help track the payloads and possibly a way to log air temperature, density, humidity, or maybe even cosmic radiation. Any thoughts and links to ideas is greatly appreciated.


Jason Unwin
KF5UEF


aprs.fi and Google Maps

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

Crossposting this from the APRSSIG, since there are so many aprs.fi users here.

73 de Mark N9XTN

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:32:36 +0300 (EEST)
From: Heikki Hannikainen <hessu@...>
To: aprssig@...
Subject: [aprssig] aprs.fi and Google Maps API pricing changes, status
        update
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1810160919570.6015@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"


Hi,

Here's the current status of aprs.fi, Google Maps API pricing, and 
Leaflet/OSM mapping.

As most of you already know, Google bumped up the pricing of the Maps API 
significantly this summer, so that aprs.fi would have paid about 
4000-5000? (4500-5700 USD) per month to use the fine maps, and assorted 
services (superb address search, and a few other goodies). Understandably, 
that'd be more than I could pay, and a difficult amount to come up as 
donations or subscription fees, every month.

As a contingency plan I made a port of aprs.fi using Leaflet for mapping. 
Leaflet can load map tiles from tile servers (or services) which generate 
PNG map images from, for example, OSM data. A few individuals and 
companies reached out to me and offered to provide access to their tile 
servers for PNG OSM maps, either for free, or for a discount. This version 
is still running on https://beta.aprs.fi/.  It uses Geonames for address 
search, which is not that great. Google can actually do proper searching 
of street addresses in Finland (or Japan, in Japanese), for example, while 
Geonames will only find cities and towns. OSM maps are better than Google 
maps in some places in the world, and less good in others.

At the same time I exchanged several emails and some phone calls with 
Google's representatives in the sales support, and eventually in the Maps 
API team, and explained the situation. The advertisement income for a site 
like this is simply nowhere near the Maps API fees; it's on a different 
decade, and there are other costs to cover, too.

Google has some programs for nonprofits, crisis response organisations, 
news media and startups, but I'm not eligible for any of those options, as 
I'm not a registered nonprofit organisation or a growth-mode startup with 
venture capital; I'm a one-man-and-a-cat sized private limited company, 
which doesn't make practical profit from the web site though. It's just 
easier to do the finances and taxes this way, and it helps me do some odd 
consulting jobs sometimes. It's a hobby.

Crisis responder organisations (Red Cross, local ARES teams, etc) use 
aprs.fi from time to time in some form, but they're only eligible for free 
Maps API for up to two months at a time. 
(https://developers.google.com/maps/billing/understanding-public-programs)

In the end, the good folks at Google Maps figured they still would like to 
support aprs.fi. They configured additional monthly credits for my billing 
account, so that I won't be charged for the time being, and indicated that 
a more permanent process/solution would be figured out later.

As the combination of Google Maps, their reliable tile servers, address 
search and street view is pretty good, I plan to keep using it as the 
primary solution for the time being.

The Leaflet variant does work, and I plan to keep it available, perhaps at 
a more permanent address than the current 'beta'. It's also useful for 
running separate service instances for different purposes than APRS.

   - Hessu, OH7LZB, AF5QT  


Stargazing Almanac

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

I'm experimenting with a free monthly astronomy newsletter. If you're interested, you can subscribe at, https://stargazingalmanac.substack.com/


Re: 2019 GPSL Save the Date!

L. Paul Verhage KD4STH
 

Here here! It was a great event in 2013.


On Sat, Oct 6, 2018, 10:14 AM Mark Conner N9XTN <mconner1@...> wrote:
Mike,

Looking forward to it!  We really enjoyed our time in Pella at your last GPSL.  

73 de Mark N9XTN

On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 10:48 AM Mike, n0mpm <morgamp52@...> wrote:
GPSL will be in Pella, IA,, June 13, 14 and 15.  Genelle is planning to recreate our Wednesday evening picnic at our house for those that come in on Wednesday afternoon.   We are busy planning an interesting day of tours on the 13th.  
It’s not too soon to consider giving a presentation.
Watch for additional information after the New Year..
Mike. n0mpm
Pella Explores Near Space (PENS)


Re: 2019 GPSL Save the Date!

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

Mike,

Looking forward to it!  We really enjoyed our time in Pella at your last GPSL.  

73 de Mark N9XTN

On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 10:48 AM Mike, n0mpm <morgamp52@...> wrote:
GPSL will be in Pella, IA,, June 13, 14 and 15.  Genelle is planning to recreate our Wednesday evening picnic at our house for those that come in on Wednesday afternoon.   We are busy planning an interesting day of tours on the 13th.  
It’s not too soon to consider giving a presentation.
Watch for additional information after the New Year..
Mike. n0mpm
Pella Explores Near Space (PENS)

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