Date   
Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

Looking at aprs.fi, it seems like the data is going through an unknown WIDEn-N before reaching VE7VMH - the latter should be outside of direct reception range and there is a WIDE2* in the path.  In any case, we are fortunate to still have coverage this morning even though a Yellowknife station is unavailable.

73 de Mark N9XTN


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:42 AM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:37 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

> No word back from my buddies in Yellowknife about getting an i-gate running.

Got a reply back from Yellowknife, not enough time to get an i-gate running...

I'm still pestering though!

--
James
VE6SRV


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Posted by: James Ewen <ve6srv@...>
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Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:37 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

No word back from my buddies in Yellowknife about getting an i-gate running.
Got a reply back from Yellowknife, not enough time to get an i-gate running...

I'm still pestering though!

--
James
VE6SRV

M0XER-3 trajectory update

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

Still looks like it will head towards the UK, but more like a Monday noon arrival (UK time).

73 de Mark N9XTN

Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

Ran a new prediction for current, and am seeing a bigger loop into Nunavut, but a deeper penetration into the Midwest USA.

No word back from my buddies in Yellowknife about getting an i-gate running. We might have to wait for that historical data to be heard once the payload gets into range of Thunder Bay.


--
James
VE6SRV

Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Mark Conner mconner1@... [GPSL]
<GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:

That is so slick I just can't stand it.......awesome forward thinking.
I'll second that!

Leo, you've got some awesome hardware there!

We have a similar type of system that we use for tracking busses, and
other municipal assets. They can go out of range, or have transmitter
failures for days at a time, and once they come back online, they dump
the missing data.

The APRS network isn't equipped to handle that, but obviously you've
worked with SNUS to be able to implement the functionality.

What an excellent system. I love the loitering over Siberia... just
checking out the sights! Hmm, maybe spying on some top secret Soviet
site!

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

Leo Bodnar <leo@...>
 

James,

This is correct, the onboard flight data recorder has the circular buffer containing 64 entries spaced at 2 hour intervals which equates to just over 5 days.

The content of the data log is continuously transmitted together with current data via APRS.

Looking at the raw sentences you will notice that some of them are longer - they contain log data in the comment field.

E.g. in these two lines 

M0XER-3>APRS63,WIDE2-1,qAR,VE7AV-4:!/4%r2/6]DO J^;I/A=041200|k2RU(8?0!(|
M0XER-3>APRS63,WIDE2-1,qAR,VE7AV-4:!/4%\6/6akO J^;^d!J[o$6,cV.[%8FNJ`_O@1/A=041177|k3RW(=?.!(|

second one contains extra base-91 encoded log data  ...d!J[o$6,cV.[%8FNJ`_O@1...

I am running the script that looks at aprs-is traffic and catches everything that M0XER-3 sends.  It decodes current and backlog data and sends it to spacenear.us
Current data transmitted with receiver tag "APRS" and historical with a tag "LOG"

After decoding the two packets above become...

1st packet:
$$B-63,6751,213550,140722,52.3066,-123.6668,12558,7,1,4.51,0.66*BAE3
2nd packet:
$$B-63,6752,213611,140722,52.3119,-123.6646,12551,7,1,4.51,0.66*4380 - current position 
$$B-63,6097,160002,140722,48.2015,-126.0414,12550,11,10,4.31,0.56*3B75 - historical position from earlier today

Note that all three records have embedded exact timecode of actual position sample and not when aprs-is has received it.
Looking carefully at the packets you will notice J^;I and J^;^, they are decoded into July 22nd 21:35:50 and July 22nd 21:36:11 respectively.

Cheers
Leo



On 22 Jul 2014, at 22:31, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:

 

Anthony,

Do you have any insight into the different receivers being listed at
spacenear.us?

We saw M0XER-3 pass over Alaska yesterday via APRS, and then go dark
until being picked up again off the coast of Washington this morning.

When looking at the spacenear.us tracking page We can see the full
track from Siberia through to current.

In areas where APRS wasn't present, the data points are further apart,
and the site reports the location receiver as LOG.

Does the payload store tracking data while in flight, and download the
stored information somehow to the network, and into spacenear.us?

--
James
VE6SRV


Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

That is so slick I just can't stand it.......awesome forward thinking.

73 de Mark N9XTN


On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Anthony Stirk upuaut@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:


Hi James,

Yes you got it. The payload stores the last 5 days (I think) of positions every 2 hours then transmits them back in the comments field of APRS at a later date in a cycle. This log is then played back into the tracker so we get an idea where its been even if its out of contact for a few days. The straight line over Russia is where it was missing for over 5 days so data was lost.


Note the loops over Siberia. 


Cheers,

Anthony M0UPU






On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:31 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:
 

Anthony,

Do you have any insight into the different receivers being listed at
spacenear.us?

We saw M0XER-3 pass over Alaska yesterday via APRS, and then go dark
until being picked up again off the coast of Washington this morning.

When looking at the spacenear.us tracking page We can see the full
track from Siberia through to current.

In areas where APRS wasn't present, the data points are further apart,
and the site reports the location receiver as LOG.

Does the payload store tracking data while in flight, and download the
stored information somehow to the network, and into spacenear.us?

--
James
VE6SRV





Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

Anthony Stirk
 

Hi James,

Yes you got it. The payload stores the last 5 days (I think) of positions every 2 hours then transmits them back in the comments field of APRS at a later date in a cycle. This log is then played back into the tracker so we get an idea where its been even if its out of contact for a few days. The straight line over Russia is where it was missing for over 5 days so data was lost.


Note the loops over Siberia. 


Cheers,

Anthony M0UPU






On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:31 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:
 

Anthony,

Do you have any insight into the different receivers being listed at
spacenear.us?

We saw M0XER-3 pass over Alaska yesterday via APRS, and then go dark
until being picked up again off the coast of Washington this morning.

When looking at the spacenear.us tracking page We can see the full
track from Siberia through to current.

In areas where APRS wasn't present, the data points are further apart,
and the site reports the location receiver as LOG.

Does the payload store tracking data while in flight, and download the
stored information somehow to the network, and into spacenear.us?

--
James
VE6SRV


Re: Changed the subject back to APRS :)

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

Anthony,

Do you have any insight into the different receivers being listed at
spacenear.us?

We saw M0XER-3 pass over Alaska yesterday via APRS, and then go dark
until being picked up again off the coast of Washington this morning.

When looking at the spacenear.us tracking page We can see the full
track from Siberia through to current.

In areas where APRS wasn't present, the data points are further apart,
and the site reports the location receiver as LOG.

Does the payload store tracking data while in flight, and download the
stored information somehow to the network, and into spacenear.us?

--
James
VE6SRV

Changed the subject back to APRS :)

Alan Adamson
 

Ah ha... hence the need for a dynamic path :)... NO-PATH, Wide2-1, ARISS, SGATE, whatever based upon rules... :)...

Now if we just had uplink, we could change the path at will with a message via the aprs network to the tracker.... Oh, at some point.

Sorry, couldn't resist... lol

Alan

On 7/22/2014 4:34 PM, Mike Manes mrmanes@... [GPSL] wrote:
Yes, it is written, "Line of sight is a magic thing", but only when
that line is absent nearby obstructions, like trees, tall grass, etc.
QRO is very helpful for recovery sans "AIR ONE".
73 de Mike W5VSI

On 7/22/14 12:47, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:
> High power isn't necessary when you have LOS!

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

Mike Manes
 

Yes, it is written, "Line of sight is a magic thing", but only when
that line is absent nearby obstructions, like trees, tall grass, etc.
QRO is very helpful for recovery sans "AIR ONE".
73 de Mike W5VSI

On 7/22/14 12:47, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:
High power isn't necessary when you have LOS!

Another HYSPLIT run for M0XER-3

Mark Conner N9XTN
 

This trajectory puts it very close to the launch site early Monday morning UK time.

73 de Mark N9XTN

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

sbd sbd
 

Leo uses Contestia on 434.500MHz whilst over the UK, I don’t know when he switches off the 434.500 transmission, I certainly have heard both in operation once he has left UK airspace, but is still in range of me.

And he has confirmed he switches APRS Frequency to match the locale. And yes he designs and builds the foil envelope

I have tracked quite a few of them now. And they usually go into areas with no receive a long time before they burst.

 

Steve

G6UIM


From: GPSL@... [mailto:GPSL@...] On Behalf Of James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL]
Sent: 22 July 2014 19:12
To: GPSL@... >> gpsl
Subject: Re: [GPSL] M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

 

 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Alan Adamson akadamson@...
[GPSL] wrote:

> Well, I know when he launches from the UK that he's on 434.500 with a
> MFSK mode because the UK is forbidden to use ham radio airborne. He
> switches to FM and APRS in countries where he can... I may not be
> correct on the dynamic beacon rate, that was just based upon watching
> his aprs rate from time to time... it may be its a constant rate I
> honestly don't know that part at 100%. I'm sure he'll chime in and let
> us all know...

The multi-frequency multi-mode part is key in his design. It's
something one has to deal with when living in the UK.

> Ah Leo's secret right now is in the envelope... Notice the altitude,
> that aint no 36" commercial foil balloon - it's a custom
> design/developed/built envelope :)... That is the key... getting above
> the weather...

Anthony made mention and Leo confirmed that B-62 was using a custom
envelope. Perhaps the following flights as well. The usual was a
Qualatex 36" foil balloon, or so it looks like.

Here's a page with some pictures of the B-10 payload which is close to
what's flying now.

http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

steve@btinternet.com
 

Other than the UK there are a few other countries where airborne Ham Radio operation isn’t allowed (e.g Latvia and the situation for France isn’t 100% clear). To overcome this in the UK we developed a low power Licence Exempt system (equivalent to part 15 operation in the US). Likewise there are a whole set of rules about licence exempt frequencies, power levels and emission standards that vary country by country (or at least region by region).

As far Ham Radio operation goes the way I read the regs strictly speaking the transmissions are under reciprocal licensing arrangements when over another country - hence the switch of call signs in the APRS message comments.  When over international waters the home licence regulations apply.

To do it 100% to regulation is probably at least as complex as the electronics and software part.

Steve G8KHW

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q4xSo6YkElPYpXJ4UVzEetMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

SUNPKS digipeater near Kamloops heard the payload when it was at:

latitude: 49.25101725794512 °
longitude: -125.1870809553562 °
altitude: 12512.6496 m

That's a straight line distance of 418 km.

10 mW into a dipole...

High power isn't necessary when you have LOS!

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <ldeffenb@...>
 

Hence the "grain of salt" comment and thank you and James for helping straighten out my brain. I forgot the part where there's (at least) two different pico-payload launchers out there!

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Going back to "being AMAZED!"

On 7/22/2014 1:39 PM, Alan Adamson wrote:
FYI, Leo's firmware does not switch to ISS... I believe you've confused his features with mine. Indeed he does geofencing and frequency switching based upon that as well as mode switching between APRS and SSB, but to the best of my knowledge he does not switch path and predict the ISS and attempt a beacone through that.

Alan

On 7/22/2014 1:34 PM, 'Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)' ldeffenb@... [GPSL] wrote:
And firmware that dynamically switches protocol, path, and frequency
based on geographic position and maybe even time of day (slower at night
to save battery power). I believe it even includes an ISS orbit tracker
and switches to the ISS frequency and ARISS path when it believes it may
make contact.

Oh, and the batteries are solar charged during the day.

Going on memory of what I've read about Leo's flights, so please take
all of the preceding with the proverbial grain of salt
(http://tinyurl.com/hg538).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ


On 7/22/2014 1:27 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

Anyone have a configuration of this thing?
What do you mean by configuration?

Physical? Balloon, string, payload.

Hardware? Antenna, radio, controller, batteries, solar panels.

APRS path? WIDE2-1

http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Alan Adamson akadamson@...
[GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:

Well, I know when he launches from the UK that he's on 434.500 with a
MFSK mode because the UK is forbidden to use ham radio airborne. He
switches to FM and APRS in countries where he can... I may not be
correct on the dynamic beacon rate, that was just based upon watching
his aprs rate from time to time... it may be its a constant rate I
honestly don't know that part at 100%. I'm sure he'll chime in and let
us all know...
The multi-frequency multi-mode part is key in his design. It's
something one has to deal with when living in the UK.

Ah Leo's secret right now is in the envelope... Notice the altitude,
that aint no 36" commercial foil balloon - it's a custom
design/developed/built envelope :)... That is the key... getting above
the weather...
Anthony made mention and Leo confirmed that B-62 was using a custom
envelope. Perhaps the following flights as well. The usual was a
Qualatex 36" foil balloon, or so it looks like.

Here's a page with some pictures of the B-10 payload which is close to
what's flying now.

http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/


--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

Alan Adamson
 

Well, I know when he launches from the UK that he's on 434.500 with a MFSK mode because the UK is forbidden to use ham radio airborne. He switches to FM and APRS in countries where he can... I may not be correct on the dynamic beacon rate, that was just based upon watching his aprs rate from time to time... it may be its a constant rate I honestly don't know that part at 100%. I'm sure he'll chime in and let us all know...

Ah Leo's secret right now is in the envelope... Notice the altitude, that aint no 36" commercial foil balloon - it's a custom design/developed/built envelope :)... That is the key... getting above the weather... It's tough in the south for a variety of reasons... seems we can't make the rain go away and the winds are usually straight to the atlanta... But hey, I've only been doing this for a few months, so it's given me lots of time to deal with hardware/software features :)...

Just this week, I figured out how to take my existing design... swap out the processor *and if wanted the GPS module*, and have an M4 core version. An STM32F303 would *drop* right in... With considerably more current demand - but I'm not thinking pico with that design. Running at 72-80mhz, with lots of ram and flash and a satellite modem like the STX3.... Hoping I can get that all to fit a 2x2 inch board, complete with on board smps....

Ah, but thats all another story for another day... for now, let's set back and *BE AMAZED*!!!

Leo's got a very good chance of making this and remember there are 2 more Bee's... right behind it improving his odds further...

Alan

On 7/22/2014 1:50 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Alan Adamson akadamson@...
[GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:

> I do believe Leo uses some dynamic beacon rate based upon battery
> voltage/day/nite/etc.
>
> He also has dynamic modes that can switch between FM and aprs and MFSK
> and SSB.

Do you recall where you might have seen that info? I recall reading
about some of Leo's work, but I haven't been able to find it again.
There's a bit to glean out of the balloons page, but most of the
latest pages just has historical tracks and telemetry.

I really appreciate the effort you put into documenting what you're
doing. It's great to learn about all the bells and whistles on these
pico-payloads. It's really amazing the amount of features that you
guys are packing into these payloads.

You need to pray to the same weather Gods that Leo prays to... he's
getting some excellent weather, allowing his flights to stay aloft for
amazing timeframes.

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

James Ewen VE6SRV
 

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Alan Adamson akadamson@...
[GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:

I do believe Leo uses some dynamic beacon rate based upon battery
voltage/day/nite/etc.

He also has dynamic modes that can switch between FM and aprs and MFSK
and SSB.
Do you recall where you might have seen that info? I recall reading
about some of Leo's work, but I haven't been able to find it again.
There's a bit to glean out of the balloons page, but most of the
latest pages just has historical tracks and telemetry.

I really appreciate the effort you put into documenting what you're
doing. It's great to learn about all the bells and whistles on these
pico-payloads. It's really amazing the amount of features that you
guys are packing into these payloads.

You need to pray to the same weather Gods that Leo prays to... he's
getting some excellent weather, allowing his flights to stay aloft for
amazing timeframes.

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: M0XER-3 trajectory forecast

Alan Adamson
 

I do believe Leo uses some dynamic beacon rate based upon battery voltage/day/nite/etc.

He also has dynamic modes that can switch between FM and aprs and MFSK and SSB.

Alan

On 7/22/2014 1:40 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [GPSL] wrote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:34 AM, 'Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)'
ldeffenb@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@...> wrote:

> And firmware that dynamically switches protocol, path, and frequency
based
> on geographic position and maybe even time of day (slower at night to
save
> battery power). I believe it even includes an ISS orbit tracker and
> switches to the ISS frequency and ARISS path when it believes it may make
> contact.
>
> Oh, and the batteries are solar charged during the day.
>
> Going on memory of what I've read about Leo's flights, so please take
all of
> the preceding with the proverbial grain of salt
(http://tinyurl.com/hg538).

I think you might be mixing up some of the features from Alan
Adamson's payloads with Leo's.

Alan's payload would switch to ISS attempts, and dynamically change
beaconing speeds at night.

I haven't seen anything about that for Leo's payloads.

Leo does change frequency and path based on geographic location though.

Leo seems to spend more time building and playing that in documenting
and posting information on web pages. That's the usual though, you
either spend a lot of time doing, or you spend a lot of time talking
about doing... Leo appears to be doing!

--
James
VE6SRV