1. Flicka20
  2. Topics

Profurl C260 or C290 for sv Dulcinea, #302 #advice

Jamie White
 

Thanks Russel for your input.  I have decided on the Furlex 50S after speaking with several of my modern sail rigging friends.  I am not too worried about the lack of turnbuckle adjustment on the forestay as the backstay bridle with turnbuckle will supply ample force to brig the spar back in column after fitting the furler.
--
Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com
Jamie White
 

Thanks for your insights Antonio.
FlickaFan
 

This might be a bit of overkill, but I have had really good luck with the Schaefer SnapFurl CF700 unit.   It uses the existing headstay without cutting and is rated generally for boats 24-28 feet in length.     I installed this on my Flicka in 2008 and it has never had any issues whatsoever.....the jib unfurls and furls flawlessly and never any jamming or mechanical problems.  I have trailer sailed my boat in Mexico, USA and Canada and raised/lowered the mast several times without damage to the furler.   

Good luck with your project whichever unit you ultimately buy!
Steve Smith
1985 PSC Flicka #304

https://hardware.schaefermarine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4390
The CF-700 Snapfurl represents the latest in quality Schaefer design and engineering. The CF-700 features a unique interlocking round Geon (tm) PVC foil that allows for owner installation directly...
hardware.schaefermarine.com

From: Flicka20@groups.io <Flicka20@groups.io> on behalf of Daryl Clark <dlclark@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2022 5:58 AM
To: Flicka20@groups.io <Flicka20@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] Profurl C260 or C290 for sv Dulcinea, #302
 
Also, if you do go Profurl, don’t go low on sail loading calculation. Get the proper size for the boat…

On most furling system manufacturers the lower load models also don’t support the pin and wire size diameters….

Do your load calculations for squall conditions: sudden down bursts - once got caught with a squall that came from behind me on Lake Superior; felt the breeze pick up on the back of my neck; clouds were racing across the lake about 100 foot off the deck, got the mainsail secured and the boat on autopilot, but was just rolling up the headsail when 60 knot gusts rolled past me.

Daryl


--
Daryl Clark
S/Y Intuition - PSC 31 # 54
Formerly s/y Flicka 433 - Ballo Liscio
S/Y Jackito - Dana 222
Daryl Clark
 

Also, if you do go Profurl, don’t go low on sail loading calculation. Get the proper size for the boat…

On most furling system manufacturers the lower load models also don’t support the pin and wire size diameters….

Do your load calculations for squall conditions: sudden down bursts - once got caught with a squall that came from behind me on Lake Superior; felt the breeze pick up on the back of my neck; clouds were racing across the lake about 100 foot off the deck, got the mainsail secured and the boat on autopilot, but was just rolling up the headsail when 60 knot gusts rolled past me.

Daryl


--
Daryl Clark
S/Y Intuition - PSC 31 # 54
Formerly s/y Flicka 433 - Ballo Liscio
S/Y Jackito - Dana 222
Morgantheship
 

I looked at the Furlex 50S but decided against it since it did not incorporate a turnbuckle in the installation. I have since decided to replace my old Mariner furler with a Harken Ocean Unit 0. I am purchasing a complete package from Sailing Services which includes in addition to the furling unit a new head stay, turnbuckle, eye/jaw toggle. Everything you need. 
A bit me re expensive.

Russell 
s/v Wren #089



On Oct 8, 2022, at 5:18 PM, Jamie White <jamie@...> wrote:



After further research, I’ve decided to fit either a Furlex 50S or Furlex 104S roller furler to s/v Dulcinea (#302). 

A couple of years ago I renewed my 1x19 standing rig with New England Ropes STS-HSR Heat-Set Dyneema (see page 48 Flicka Friends September 2020 Vol. 71).  Since I need to replace the Dyneema headstay with stainless 1x19 and the Furlex 50S or Furlex 104S roller furlers come with a new 1x19 headstay, I’ve decided to fit one of these to s/v Dulcinea.  The Selden Furlex units come with a stanchion furling line block and furling line combined with a new forestay and free shipping it appears a simple choice.

What are recommendations for fitting a 50S or 104S Furlex roller furler?  The 50S is a couple hundred dollars less expensive and appears to be stout enough for a 6,000 displacement Flicka 20.

Here is a link to Flicka Friends Sept. 2020 where I describe the refit of s/v Dulcinea in detail: 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q9vQQ-iDpmC4h8O3KtUbScT9wqWSh9uh/view?usp=sharing

--

Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com

Jamie White
 

After further research, I’ve decided to fit either a Furlex 50S or Furlex 104S roller furler to s/v Dulcinea (#302). 

A couple of years ago I renewed my 1x19 standing rig with New England Ropes STS-HSR Heat-Set Dyneema (see page 48 Flicka Friends September 2020 Vol. 71).  Since I need to replace the Dyneema headstay with stainless 1x19 and the Furlex 50S or Furlex 104S roller furlers come with a new 1x19 headstay, I’ve decided to fit one of these to s/v Dulcinea.  The Selden Furlex units come with a stanchion furling line block and furling line combined with a new forestay and free shipping it appears a simple choice.

What are recommendations for fitting a 50S or 104S Furlex roller furler?  The 50S is a couple hundred dollars less expensive and appears to be stout enough for a 6,000 displacement Flicka 20.

Here is a link to Flicka Friends Sept. 2020 where I describe the refit of s/v Dulcinea in detail: 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q9vQQ-iDpmC4h8O3KtUbScT9wqWSh9uh/view?usp=sharing

--

Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com
Jamie White
 

Thanks Daryl for your comment...definitely going to consider a 110 or 115% jib.

--
Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com
Jamie White
 

thanks Jay for your insights.  I can certainly see the logic of a 115% tri-cut radial jib.
--
Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com
Jay Cushman
 

Three years ago we sold our Flicka, and bought a larger boat, a Cape Dory 27. Sadly, this summer we concluded that we’re no longer able to be active sailors, and sold the CD. Now, we’re mulling a transition to power. 

That said, I want to second Daryl’s observation that smaller is better. In order to reduce weather helm,  I had a 100% tri-radial built to replace a 115%, after reading of another CD-27 owner’s success in reducing the size of his foresail. 

The effect on BRAVO was striking; she sailed flatter and tacking was easier. You may wish to experiment with the location of your sheet blocks; with a working jib, sheets would presumably be led through hardware on your coach roof rather than those on your working decks or your toe rails. 

Fair winds, Jay Cushman

Ex REDUX, Flicka #156
Ex BRAVO, CD 27, #269

On Oct 7, 2022, at 10:24, Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...> wrote:




On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 9:40 AM Daryl Clark <dlclark@...> wrote:
Although it may seem that a 130% Genoa would perform better in light air; I found the 110 % Yankee cut to actually perform better in all conditions on the Flicka ( same with the Dana and now with my PSC 31).

Funny you should say this... our sailmaker opined the same and we found the 110 to outperform the big genny we had.  The problem with the latter was that it was very *heavy* (good for coastal/offshore sailing perhaps) and when you most needed a big sail (low wind) it would just hang there.  The smaller sail performs better across the entire spectrum (4-20+ kts).  It's a radial cut from a higher/lighter performance cloth.
 

The two sails get cut quite differently and the 110% always balanced better with the mainsail and reefed better when the winds piped up! This is sailing on Lake Superior in winds from 5 to 40 knots…

The most important choice today on furler selection is actually who supports them in your sailing area!

Harken is probably one of the best supported in the USA. Certainly here in the Midwest. They are a USA company and we’re original equipment out of PSC in California (as well as their deck gear on the later models  Ballo Liscio was a 1997).

There are two versions of the Harken Unit 0 to choose from : one is the MKIV , the other is the Ocean /Cruising series - two quite different pieces of equipment.

The MKIV has independent drum and head swivel units - designed to yield a better airfoil shape when furling. To most it seems the only difference between units is the single verses double luff slot and quite a large price difference.

I recently upgraded to the Harken MKIV UNIT 1 furler on my PSC 31 - it was completed in about 7 hours with assistance of crew. Instructions and foil length calculations were spot on - abd I had never installed one before.

Excellent observations.  Agree 100%!
 


Daryl
s/y Intuition PSC 31 #54
Formerly Ballo Liscio - Flicka #433 and Jackito Dana #222


--
Daryl Clark
S/Y Intuition - PSC 31 # 54
Formerly s/y Flicka 433 - Ballo Liscio
S/Y Jackito - Dana 222






--
SV REDUX
#156
Swan’s Island, ME
Antonio Martinez
 



On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 9:40 AM Daryl Clark <dlclark@...> wrote:
Although it may seem that a 130% Genoa would perform better in light air; I found the 110 % Yankee cut to actually perform better in all conditions on the Flicka ( same with the Dana and now with my PSC 31).

Funny you should say this... our sailmaker opined the same and we found the 110 to outperform the big genny we had.  The problem with the latter was that it was very *heavy* (good for coastal/offshore sailing perhaps) and when you most needed a big sail (low wind) it would just hang there.  The smaller sail performs better across the entire spectrum (4-20+ kts).  It's a radial cut from a higher/lighter performance cloth.
 

The two sails get cut quite differently and the 110% always balanced better with the mainsail and reefed better when the winds piped up! This is sailing on Lake Superior in winds from 5 to 40 knots…

The most important choice today on furler selection is actually who supports them in your sailing area!

Harken is probably one of the best supported in the USA. Certainly here in the Midwest. They are a USA company and we’re original equipment out of PSC in California (as well as their deck gear on the later models  Ballo Liscio was a 1997).

There are two versions of the Harken Unit 0 to choose from : one is the MKIV , the other is the Ocean /Cruising series - two quite different pieces of equipment.

The MKIV has independent drum and head swivel units - designed to yield a better airfoil shape when furling. To most it seems the only difference between units is the single verses double luff slot and quite a large price difference.

I recently upgraded to the Harken MKIV UNIT 1 furler on my PSC 31 - it was completed in about 7 hours with assistance of crew. Instructions and foil length calculations were spot on - abd I had never installed one before.

Excellent observations.  Agree 100%!
 


Daryl
s/y Intuition PSC 31 #54
Formerly Ballo Liscio - Flicka #433 and Jackito Dana #222


--
Daryl Clark
S/Y Intuition - PSC 31 # 54
Formerly s/y Flicka 433 - Ballo Liscio
S/Y Jackito - Dana 222
Daryl Clark
 

Although it may seem that a 130% Genoa would perform better in light air; I found the 110 % Yankee cut to actually perform better in all conditions on the Flicka ( same with the Dana and now with my PSC 31).

The two sails get cut quite differently and the 110% always balanced better with the mainsail and reefed better when the winds piped up! This is sailing on Lake Superior in winds from 5 to 40 knots…

The most important choice today on furler selection is actually who supports them in your sailing area!

Harken is probably one of the best supported in the USA. Certainly here in the Midwest. They are a USA company and we’re original equipment out of PSC in California (as well as their deck gear on the later models Ballo Liscio was a 1997).

There are two versions of the Harken Unit 0 to choose from : one is the MKIV , the other is the Ocean /Cruising series - two quite different pieces of equipment.

The MKIV has independent drum and head swivel units - designed to yield a better airfoil shape when furling. To most it seems the only difference between units is the single verses double luff slot and quite a large price difference.

I recently upgraded to the Harken MKIV UNIT 1 furler on my PSC 31 - it was completed in about 7 hours with assistance of crew. Instructions and foil length calculations were spot on - abd I had never installed one before.


Daryl
s/y Intuition PSC 31 #54
Formerly Ballo Liscio - Flicka #433 and Jackito Dana #222


--
Daryl Clark
S/Y Intuition - PSC 31 # 54
Formerly s/y Flicka 433 - Ballo Liscio
S/Y Jackito - Dana 222
Antonio Martinez
 

Our new jib (this past year) is a 110 tri-radial and we're very happy with the 'set'. Great sail.
For years we had hank-on on a little Montgomery 15 and used it not infrequently in 'sporting' conditions.  But the idea of having to go back to hank-on with the Flicka has no appeal.  On the Chesapeake Bay the weather can, and does, change quickly at times and it's fantastic to be able to just dial-in the right amount of jib or reef main from cockpit.  Sail center-of-effort is not ideal when jibs are reefed and a true storm sail would be better in extreme conditions, but just dialing in a little jib reefing can turn an unpleasant sail into a well planted cruise.
Good luck with your purchase!
a


On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 7:35 AM clyderigged via groups.io <clyderigged=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thank you Priscilla for your informed and detailed response.  I am leaning towards a 130 tri-cut for the same reasons you mentioned. Dulcinea’s current sail inventory is the same one that Hal DeVaney had for the boat and are all hanked on headsails.  I definitely will go with a foam luff to maintain sail shape as I often reef the main and reduce headsail area sailing in San Francisco Bay.  I intend on some extended coastwise passages where shortening sail forward is much easier accomplished by roller in the headsail instead of dousing and set a smaller one.

Jamie White
 

Thank you Priscilla for your informed and detailed response.  I am leaning towards a 130 tri-cut for the same reasons you mentioned. Dulcinea’s current sail inventory is the same one that Hal DeVaney had for the boat and are all hanked on headsails.  I definitely will go with a foam luff to maintain sail shape as I often reef the main and reduce headsail area sailing in San Francisco Bay.  I intend on some extended coastwise passages where shortening sail forward is much easier accomplished by roller in the headsail instead of dousing and set a smaller one.
Priscilla Wheatley
 

I installed a Profurl but it was probably 25 years ago.  It was easier to put together than other makes. The model was RC-25.  If the mast was down, you could remove the stay and assemble on land.  

There were a few pieces of hardware that you needed to get from Profurl.  What I remember was paying attention to the length of the headstay.   We didn't have to cut it.  I bought the boat from MIke MItchell at Coveside Marine, the PSC dealer for Maine and vicinity.  He was installing one on his Flicka so we put it together on the floor in his main building.  It wasn't particularly difficult although we called Profurl a couple of times.. I assembled mine by myself at the yard where my boat was.   They gave me space on the floor by the office.  They installed it when they stepped the mast.  I had the sail built by Win Fowler at Maine Sailing Partners who ran the loft  for the America's Cup competitors several times.  He built quite a few Flicka sails. 

Here are some notes and posts circa 2001.

Whether or not to buy a new sail has entirely to do with condition. I
bought the 130 because the 100 is adequate but not great in light air. I
spent the extra $ on a tri-cut because you get a good set from minute one.
It's built to reef/furl, and with all those panels I think they are less
prone to stretch and blow out. Other than breaking in, mine still
looks fantastic. If you are converting to roller furling, I would have
both 140 and 100 converted (assuming you aren't getting a new sail).
I'm not sure how much a 140 (vs.130) adds to performance, but since you
only reasonably reef to about 1/3 of the foot,you might consider the 130 for
more versatility and less cloth to handle, unless you are mostly in light air.
I rarely use the 100, but did have it converted and carry it with me when cruising.

Whatever you do, make sure you have a luff pad and sun protection put
on the jib that will stay up. Some sailmakers will tell you don't need
a luff pad on a boat that small but they are WRONG. It is easier to furl/
unfurl, and when sailing reefed you get a much better shape. An unpadded
luff wrinkles. I didn't have my 100 padded, which is no big deal, but if
I were going to use it more I would. Also, if you want to be able to hank
on, you can have grommets put it, but I haven't see any cruising boats do
this, just the world travelers. That way they can lash the sail on over
the foil. When you get estimates for conversion, ask if they do it by the
foot or time and materials.

...  It's a pain to get at the turnbuckle after you assemble everything,
so once I tuned the headstay i never touched it again.  Just
do the backstays. The new hardware will add a little length to the head
stay so be careful. I didn't take up enough and wound up with wicked
weather helm the first season.

October was always my favorite month to saill.  The best winds - steady, strong enough, and no gusts. 

Priscilla
Jamie White
 

I’ve decided to look into fitting a roller furling unit on sv Dulcinea, #302, and have decided on going with a Profurl unit.  Speaking with the factory rep this morning, I was informed the Profurl C260 would work - but would be approaching the suggested limit with a 135% jib.  The Profurl C290 is much stouter, but much more expensive.  I would like to fit the Profurl C260 unit and use the savings to help offset the purchase of a new jib with a foam luff.

What are folks’ opinions who have used the Profurl C260 or C290?

Any thoughts will be most welcome.

--

Fair leads,
Jamie White
www.thesquarerigger.com

1 - 15 of 15