Date   

unsubscribe please

John
 

Just to confirm my desire to leave the group. health means bucket dream are now out of the window :(

John


Flicka HIN PCS20401B090 El Pablo

Vince DiLeo
 

I found this listing for El Pablo aka Abraxas, Sarnia a 1990 Flicka out of Port Townsend, Washington; I'm interested in purchasing it

Vince DiLeo


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Re: BOWSPRIT

Matt Corwin
 

John, please pm me and I will send you my number to discuss



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Matt Corwin via groups.io" <bongogram@...>
Date: 1/18/22 2:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

I have made complete flicka bowsprits



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Sandberg via groups.io" <jksandberg22@...>
Date: 1/17/22 2:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

Matt,

Are you building bowsprits complete with “wings”?
If so would love to discuss for possible purchase.

John
s/v Sprout


On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...> wrote:


Matt,
I missed the Semco comment.  That's new to me.  Can you elaborate?
thx
a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 1:33 PM Antonio Martinez via groups.io <middleriverstudio=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
!!  Lovely boat but makes my sanding elbow hurt :-/

I learned to use a scraper in an earlier career as a luthier.  NEVER used sandpaper.  But what a lot of people call a 'paint scraper' (lowes variety) and a cabinetmaker's scraper and the tool and knowledge to put a burr on it, are two *totally* different things.  I still have an almost 40 year old Sandvik scraper that'll make translucent shavings all day long, leaving a perfect finish.  But it is true that it's less than ideal for curves etc.  I have one for that but have never bonded with it.

a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:00 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
<20211113_092940.jpg>
i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Matt Corwin
 

I have made complete flicka bowsprits



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Sandberg via groups.io" <jksandberg22@...>
Date: 1/17/22 2:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

Matt,

Are you building bowsprits complete with “wings”?
If so would love to discuss for possible purchase.

John
s/v Sprout


On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...> wrote:


Matt,
I missed the Semco comment.  That's new to me.  Can you elaborate?
thx
a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 1:33 PM Antonio Martinez via groups.io <middleriverstudio=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
!!  Lovely boat but makes my sanding elbow hurt :-/

I learned to use a scraper in an earlier career as a luthier.  NEVER used sandpaper.  But what a lot of people call a 'paint scraper' (lowes variety) and a cabinetmaker's scraper and the tool and knowledge to put a burr on it, are two *totally* different things.  I still have an almost 40 year old Sandvik scraper that'll make translucent shavings all day long, leaving a perfect finish.  But it is true that it's less than ideal for curves etc.  I have one for that but have never bonded with it.

a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:00 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
<20211113_092940.jpg>
i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Nick D
 

This is the color I get with cautious use of the deck cleaner available at Home Depot. The cleaner seems to stay active at least a month holding this color.  This cleaner really finally fixed a mildew problem I was having on my Whaler also visible in the photo.   Nick


Re: BOWSPRIT

John Sandberg
 

Matt,

Are you building bowsprits complete with “wings”?
If so would love to discuss for possible purchase.

John
s/v Sprout


On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...> wrote:


Matt,
I missed the Semco comment.  That's new to me.  Can you elaborate?
thx
a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 1:33 PM Antonio Martinez via groups.io <middleriverstudio=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
!!  Lovely boat but makes my sanding elbow hurt :-/

I learned to use a scraper in an earlier career as a luthier.  NEVER used sandpaper.  But what a lot of people call a 'paint scraper' (lowes variety) and a cabinetmaker's scraper and the tool and knowledge to put a burr on it, are two *totally* different things.  I still have an almost 40 year old Sandvik scraper that'll make translucent shavings all day long, leaving a perfect finish.  But it is true that it's less than ideal for curves etc.  I have one for that but have never bonded with it.

a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:00 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
<20211113_092940.jpg>
i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: I ran into an unlimited channel marker at night

Steve
 

Great. Will do but it will be a few weeks. I live 12 hours away from by boat and it will be a few weeks before i get back to it. 
Thanks,
Steve Davis

On Monday, January 17, 2022, 10:44:38 AM CST, Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram@...> wrote:


If you mail me the broken part I'll make you a reproduction part, one tricky thing is aligning the bolt holes correctly so I need the original.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve via groups.io" <BULLDOGSTEVEDAVIS@...>
Date: 1/16/22 9:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka 20 Group <flicka20@groups.io>
Subject: [Flicka20] I ran into an unlimited channel marker at night







Re: BOWSPRIT

Antonio Martinez
 

Matt,
I missed the Semco comment.  That's new to me.  Can you elaborate?
thx
a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 1:33 PM Antonio Martinez via groups.io <middleriverstudio=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

!!  Lovely boat but makes my sanding elbow hurt :-/

I learned to use a scraper in an earlier career as a luthier.  NEVER used sandpaper.  But what a lot of people call a 'paint scraper' (lowes variety) and a cabinetmaker's scraper and the tool and knowledge to put a burr on it, are two *totally* different things.  I still have an almost 40 year old Sandvik scraper that'll make translucent shavings all day long, leaving a perfect finish.  But it is true that it's less than ideal for curves etc.  I have one for that but have never bonded with it.

a

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:00 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Antonio Martinez
 

!!  Lovely boat but makes my sanding elbow hurt :-/

I learned to use a scraper in an earlier career as a luthier.  NEVER used sandpaper.  But what a lot of people call a 'paint scraper' (lowes variety) and a cabinetmaker's scraper and the tool and knowledge to put a burr on it, are two *totally* different things.  I still have an almost 40 year old Sandvik scraper that'll make translucent shavings all day long, leaving a perfect finish.  But it is true that it's less than ideal for curves etc.  I have one for that but have never bonded with it.

a


On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:00 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Matt Corwin
 

i

I am no stranger to stripping and finishing teak. I machine and construct
wood stuff for my living since 1984 and have been working on boats most of my life so lots of run ins with teak.
But yes,, there are many cases where scraping can be a superior method of smoothing wood, sometimes involving help from chemicals, but it would have taken years for the most talented scraper man, with a multitude of custom profiled scrapers and the skill to sharpen said scrapers, to do the teak on the boat in the picture I know, it took weeks with the highest quality sanders on the professional market. Heat and scraping was used where possible and then, 60- 120grit to get ready for Semco treatment. 
Trivia...traditional Japanese woodwork uses no sanding partly because sandpaper leaves grit in the work that dulls tools.
Matt

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/17/22 9:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: I ran into an unlimited channel marker at night

Matt Corwin
 

If you mail me the broken part I'll make you a reproduction part, one tricky thing is aligning the bolt holes correctly so I need the original.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve via groups.io" <BULLDOGSTEVEDAVIS@...>
Date: 1/16/22 9:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka 20 Group <flicka20@groups.io>
Subject: [Flicka20] I ran into an unlimited channel marker at night







Re: BOWSPRIT

Antonio Martinez
 

Nick,
Can you elaborate a little on 'light bleach'?  Do you not use any oil at all?
Our toerail was in Cetol but is now partially stripped.  I've pondered continuing with Cetol, changing to Epiphanes, or letting it silver naturally.
a


On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:56 AM Nick D <sailvela@...> wrote:
You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Nick D
 

You’d be surprised if you’re careful you can get a polished finished if you hold sharp scraper at 90 degrees. Not tearing at it as with a house scraper. The scraper will only take the hard wood.  I keep the toe rail natural with a light bleach a few times per year with no harm done. 


Teak toersil

Steve
 






I ran into an unlimited channel marker at night

Steve
 







Re: BOWSPRIT

Steve
 

Thanks for all the help.  Matt, do you build the wings fir the bowsprit?  Is so I'd like to order one from ya. I damaged mine.


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:47 AM, Matt Corwin via groups.io
<bongogram@...> wrote:



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve via groups.io" <BULLDOGSTEVEDAVIS@...>
Date: 1/13/22 4:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka 20 Group <flicka20@groups.io>
Subject: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

A few months ago I saw someone here made a beautiful bowsprit "wing" but  I  lost the contact and pic.  I'd like to hire that person to build be one for me  do to i busted one wing off.  If anyone can help id really appreciate it.  

Also, my toe rail is teak.  Anyone taken off teak toe rail before? 

Thanks
Steve


Re: BOWSPRIT

Matt Corwin
 

Did you mean oily woods? I assume spellchecker sabotaged your sentence but in any case scraping is not always an option and never an option for attaining the final smoothness required for many finishes. 
Teak is very fibrous and can get pretty torn up with scraping.
The most important thing is maintaining whatever finish is on the wood so as to avoid the always destructive refinishing process.
Every time the teak goes grey, the pithy grains are worn and washed away and the wood is left with the rough ridges of the tough grains above the softer pithy grain. This condition is desirable for natural non-skid of a deck but IMHO too rough for brightwork. 
Sooo, now when the wood gets sanded back to smooth for varnish, a lot of wood thickness is lost and that is why we see so many older boats  with the bungs falling out of the holes.
Got to keep up with the #%@$$ varnish!



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Nick D <sailvela@...>
Date: 1/16/22 10:10 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

Teak and other woods should be scraped rather than sanded. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Nick D
 

Teak and other woods should be scraped rather than sanded. 


Re: BOWSPRIT

Priscilla Wheatley
 
Edited

Pacific Seacraft had someone from the factory at the annual Rendezvous in southern Maine.  It was Robin Bradshaw most years, and he was a terrific resource for Flicka owners.  He was available by phone anytime and had records on each boat by hull number.  

What I remember about the toe rails is they were not intended to be removed.  When the new deck mold was built the hull-to-deck joint was changed.  The teak toe rails are pretty much a hand-made installation on each boat.  A Flicka took up a bay in the construction area where PSC could build a Crealock which probably had a profit margin.  That is one of reasons PSC dropped production of the Flicka.  She took up a lot of space.  She has enough materials to build a much larger boat.  In some areas there isn't enough room for 2 people to work at the same time.  

The teak toe rails are basically a custom installation on each boat.  Cadenza is a 1989 hull (387) and I never did anything to the toe rails other than carefully sand and oil them each year.  Teak has soft and hard grains.  When you sand you have to use flat sandpaper to do the entire width.  If you don't pay attention, or don't know what you are doing, you will destroy the soft grain and the hard grain remains as is.  You wind up with an up-and-down pattern rather than flat all the way across.


Re: BOWSPRIT

Matt Corwin
 

It took the shop and the covid "shelter in place" of the first three months with nothing mandatory to do so I thought "what the hell, might as well tackle those annoying cap rails" .
Each side is made from four, 5-6ft long 2X6 boards scarred and screwed from inboard and outboard.
One real reason I had to do it is that where they are scribed to the cockpit coming, there is that long seam that was letting water stand and soak through the hull to deck bolts and probably the teak securing screws as well.i am still debating the Merritt of installing jib tracks on the teak caps or having them more inboard on the side decks.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...>
Date: 1/15/22 7:04 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

Very nice ;-)

<sigh>  What I wouldn't give to have our boat in a shop!!

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 9:30 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Antonio! I laminated three layers to get the radius, I made a mold from several pieces of partical board that were scribed from the transom arch.
It was not fun.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Antonio Martinez <middleriverstudio@...>
Date: 1/14/22 7:02 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

I like the idea of taller toerails.  Did you find any places where it was an issue?  IIRC it's a little tight under 'sprit platforms.
Also, how did you handle the transom (complex curve).  Even with 3/4-1" stock seems it could be a bear to cajole it in place.  Steambox?

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 6:56 PM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
My cap rails were still  servicabe but they were ugly from new and were one of the big upgrades to the boat that I wanted to have from day 1.
Pacific Seacraft did a terrible job making them in the first place, they are uneven on the inside where it would not be that difficult to run a trim router to make them follow the little bulwark edge and the outside where the rabbit is does not even cover the seam in the hull. I just replaced them on principal.
The real tough work wasting the set of patterns ( templates) for cutting the teak. I used full 1 1/2" teak for the job but mahogany could be substituted for a real savings in cost.
I also added a rubrail to the outside of the cap covering the hull to deck joint with a bronze guard strip and the end result is a correctly trimmed hull with an extra measure of safety because of the 2" high bullwark.
The scarf joints are tricky but what isn't in boatwork?
I can make the rough parts for any owner who wants to tackle the project.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Rod Green <treetopflier156@...>
Date: 1/14/22 1:05 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

Steve,

I'm in the process of replacing my teak cap rails as well. Like Matt said, they are nearly impossible to get off without destroying them, especially if they are old like mine. The rabbeted outside edge prevents you from getting anything under it from the outside. I was able to use a flat pry bar and an oscillating multitool on the inside edge to pry/cut them off. However, like Matt said, you have to be carefull, because it is easy to damage the gelcoat underneath. I was also going to attempt to make new teak cap rails myself. However, after pricing teak and having to purchase additional tools etc. for the job, which I did not have, I was getting close to the price PSC quoted me to have new cap rails made. Plus the risk of messing up, could cost you hundreds of dollars in teak, so I opted to have PSC make new cap rails for me. If you're interested, they made a mistake when cutting the cap rails for me, by cutting them too narrow. They would still work, but would not cover all of the top edge. If that doesn't matter to you, they said they would give someone a good deal on them. Lemme know if you are interested and I will give you contact information.

Good luck,

Rod

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 10:04 AM Matt Corwin via groups.io <bongogram=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The teak toerail, if it is like mine was, is bedded in something like 5200 polyurethane adhesive caulk. It is impossible to remove without distraction either to the hull or the teak rail.bif you try to pry it up enough to get a wire or hacksaw blade or whatever under it the gellcoat will tear off.
I had to set a circular saw to the depth of the adhesive bedding and crosscut every 5" or so and then use a sharp wood chisel to split into splinters. Small pieces like 1/2"X5" could be payed off without damaging the boat.
If your boat is like mine or the couple other Flicka's with teak caps that I have seen from that era, then the teak cap is/was rabbeted so that there is a lip that hides the hull to deck seam, this lip prevents passing a wire or thin saw blade under and even if that were possible I doubt that the 5200 would give up the ghost.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve via groups.io" <BULLDOGSTEVEDAVIS=YAHOO.COM@groups.io>
Date: 1/13/22 4:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Flicka 20 Group <flicka20@groups.io>
Subject: [Flicka20] BOWSPRIT

A few months ago I saw someone here made a beautiful bowsprit "wing" but  I  lost the contact and pic.  I'd like to hire that person to build be one for me  do to i busted one wing off.  If anyone can help id really appreciate it.  

Also, my toe rail is teak.  Anyone taken off teak toe rail before? 

Thanks
Steve

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