FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings


John Warburton G4IRN
 

There's a few characteristics of the panadapter that have been annoying me, I wonder if others have noticed the same issues? I've documented them here:

https://www.g4irn.com/home/articles-information/issues-with-the-ftdx101d-panadapter

73 John G4IRN.


GW4DVB
 

Rest assured I'm sure it will be addressed in the new impending FW release..... Don't hold your breath though :) 


Richards
 

There's a few characteristics of the panadapter that have been annoying
me . . .

-------------------------------------------------------------

Nice, clear and concise presentation.   How does this impact daily
operation?   How "annoying" is it in your regular operation?

Thanks.    K8JHR

____________________________________


John Warburton G4IRN
 

So just as a reminder of the context here, these issues are affecting my CW operating in CURSOR display mode (static background) - they may be less problematic on SSB, I don't now.

Of the three issues, the distortion in the SUB RX passband is the most annoying. If I am calling a weak DX station working split, I will often have both ears on MAIN RX while I tune my TX frequency on the SUB VFO. I will put focus on SUB so I can see the pileup and look out for the calling patterns, but because of the panadapter display distrotion I am losing the most important part of the display - the frequency I am tuned to. So this is really frustrating and would probably be a deal breaker for me if I was buying the radio today.

The wavering display when tuning signals in CURSOR mode is slightly frustrating  - if I see a station calling and I want to tune to his frequency, I can't go straight there with the tuning knob, it takes two or three attempts to land on the right frequency due to the moving display. I tend to use narrow SPAN values to get a real close look at band activity but this is where the issue is highlighted most.

Loss of received signal on the MAIN RX is less of an issue to me because I rarely switch off RX on MAIN to listen on SUB only, however it doesn't seem correct to me.

My posting has prompted several personal replies. Some units suffer from all three issues that I raised, some only one of them. Whether its a hardware issue or a firmware issue, I'm not sure.

73 John G4IRN.


Pascal <pascal.ge.mestdagh@...>
 

Hi John,

I can confirm also that my unit suffers from all 3 issues you mention and document, FW on my transceiver is the same as yours.

1) If these problems relate to a FW-issue, then probably some of these issues have been fixed as not all units seem to suffer from all (three) problems.
It is up to Yaesu then to make these FW-upgrades available to everybody asap without hesitation.
New firmware seems to be available as it is delivered with newer transceivers, there is another topic on this:
https://groups.io/g/FTDX101D/message/2197

2) If these problems relate to a HW-issue, Yaesu will have to cope with returning all transceivers to their headquarters in order to have them fixed as they already did for the issue regarding output power overshoot.
Of course this is an expensive operation for Yaesu, so it could be that they are waiting for more complaints to come in...

Hopefully Yaesu will stand up and prove itself as being transparent and cooperative in these issues in order to keep their trustworthiness alive.

Best 73,
Pascal


ftlaudm3@...
 

Very good job finding these issues and documenting them. Have you contacted Yaesu and sent them your link? I am a future buyer (think about buying daily) and want to see how Yaesu addresses issues before I take the leap.


John Warburton G4IRN
 

Yes, I have reported this to Yaesu UK and provided the supporting information on my website. Additionally I was asked to provide backup copies of my Menu settings.

I will let you know how I get on.

73 John G4IRN.


John Warburton G4IRN
 

I'm happy to report that the new firware has fixed two of the spectrum-scope issues I previously reported. Specifically, the issues related to the displayed signal disappearing or distorting when the RX in use was switched off i.e. when the user looks at the signal but doesn't listen. This seems OK now.

There is still an issue whereby the displayed signal appears to vary in frequency as the cursor is tuned over it - this is predominent in CW mode, using CURSOR display with a small SPAN value. I guess it must be harder to fix but I can live with it.
John G4IRN


Scott Ellington
 

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


Gary Schwartz
 

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


Lou W7HV
 

There have been many many discussion on this in this group and I won't reiterate them.  For weak sigs, adjust LEVEL until noise is just starting to color the waterfall.  Weak sigs are very obvious in the waterfall.  Color choice can make a difference.  I like COLOR-9 for DSSDR and COLOR-18 for NARROW SDR.  I reverse them for the SUB (COLOR-11, COLOR-16). There are also a number settings to explore in the S-MENU and the DISPLAY SETTINGS menu.  Experiment with those to decide what works best for you. 

It is what it is.


Mr K4ATE
 

There are user defined AGC settings on my 101D.







-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...>
Date: 6/25/21 1:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: FTDX101D@groups.io
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


Gary Schwartz
 

My bad, you are correct.

Gary

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mr K4ATE" <K4ATE@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:38:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

There are user defined AGC settings on my 101D.







-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...>
Date: 6/25/21 1:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


BILL KENNAMER
 

There are some of us who don't like averaging.

K5FUV

On Friday, June 25, 2021, 12:56:14 PM CDT, Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...> wrote:


My bad, you are correct.

Gary

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mr K4ATE" <K4ATE@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:38:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

There are user defined AGC settings on my 101D.







-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...>
Date: 6/25/21 1:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


33 73s
 

Hi All,

Outside the unmanaged noise floor on 101... What about the dynamics of the spectrum on the sreen 101 or futur panad .. ?
Will it be limited as on the screens of the D and MP at 50dB about ...?
An adjustable display with sufficient dynamics, that of 101 would be a real plus. But ...

73s Sylvain


Le vendredi 25 juin 2021 à 21:00:52 UTC+2, BILL KENNAMER <k5fuv@...> a écrit :


There are some of us who don't like averaging.

K5FUV

On Friday, June 25, 2021, 12:56:14 PM CDT, Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...> wrote:


My bad, you are correct.

Gary

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mr K4ATE" <K4ATE@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:38:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

There are user defined AGC settings on my 101D.







-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...>
Date: 6/25/21 1:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


Gary Schwartz
 

Bill and all

My point was not whether you liked averaging or not as I agree there are pros and cons and personal preferences.  My point is that with the Icom line you have a choice, with Yaesu you don't.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "BILL KENNAMER" <k5fuv@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 3:00:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

There are some of us who don't like averaging.

K5FUV

On Friday, June 25, 2021, 12:56:14 PM CDT, Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...> wrote:


My bad, you are correct.

Gary

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mr K4ATE" <K4ATE@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:38:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

There are user defined AGC settings on my 101D.







-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Schwartz <garysch69@...>
Date: 6/25/21 1:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

A search through this, the FTdx10 and other forums would show this and similar wish-list topics have been discussed at length.  I observe that the 991, 101d/mp, and dx10 come from the same "mold".  Aside from clearing up glaring faults, I have seen no evidence that Yaesu listens to its' customer base.  It is also true that what one likes, another dislikes.  On the other hand, the Icom philosophy allows the user to set his/her own defaults.  Take averaging for example.  Icom lets you set the amount you want from zero on up.  Similarly it has mode memory, not band memory and user defined AGC settings.  The Yaesu mindset does not allow for this type of personalization.  Based on what we have seen, I would doubt they are going to change.  

Gary
K3OS

------ Original Message ------
From: "Scott Ellington" <K9ma@...>
Sent: 6/25/2021 1:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FTDX101D] FTdx101 Panadapter Shortcomings

I'm new to this radio, so I may be missing some settings, but I notice a couple shortcomings of the panadapter:

There seems to be no provision for averaging, making it hard to distinguish weak signals from noise.

In the cursor mode, when you reach the end of the span, it just scrolls until you tune back in the other direction. It would be much more useful if it simply jumped to the next segment, preferably with some overlap. In the fixed mode, it won't scroll at all. 

As an aside, I think the apparently varying frequency in the fixed or cursor mode is an artifact of the way those modes are implement. (The Elecraft P3 does the same thing.) I suspect the display is inherently always in the Center mode, so for Fixed or Cursor modes the display has to be adjusted while tuning, and it takes a while for the gerbils inside to do the math.

73,
Scott K9MA


Scott Ellington
 

You can set the AGC time constants, but not threshold or slope.

73,
Scott K9MA


Lou W7HV
 

Yes.  Having AGC slope and threshold would be a very welcome addition to the rig.  As with other radios that don't have these controls, two things that can be used to influence AGC to a degree are RF GAIN and WIDTH.  Reducing RF gain can reduce AGC action. This also serves to reduce the influence of very strong nearby signals.  For CW, reducing WIDTH can increase AGC action and improve reception of weak fading signals.