Date   

Re: Indoor antenna survey begins tomorrow

Tim Britt & Ann Weatherwax <timbritt@...>
 

Jim, are you going to include in your test a folded dipole antenna
tacked to two yardsticks in a "T" shape that can be turned by hand for
best "tuning?" Our belief is that this would be as good as any of the
fancy expensive gizmos that some (can you say the "T" word) pass off
as amplified indoor antennae.

We agree with Ed in that if you are really serious about FM reception
and absolutely cannot put up an outdoor antenna, you'll find a way to
hang a good outdoor antenna from your ceiling :-)

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jim@f...> wrote:
I've begun the long promised indoor antenna survey. Our thanks to
John Via for buying a Godar Super Antenna FM-1A and Jesse for the
loan of a BIC Beam Box Model FM 10 to start things off. I have
learned one thing already. I want my roof antenna back!!! Ed? Have
any indoor antenna you want to throw against the tough competition?
8:-) jim...


Re: Indoor antenna survey begins tomorrow

Jim <jim@fmtunerinfo.com>
 

Me too. Ed. Ed?

Roger

PS - I would like to see how the APS Intenna does
against the two you have for starters ...


Re: Indoor antenna survey begins tomorrow

Roger Dirks <rdirks@...>
 

I had a BIC Beam Box Model FM 10 some 15-20 years ago,
and wasn't impressed with it, even on the second floor
of a 2-story house. Couldn't get the direction or
tuning to do much of anything for my Micro CPU 100
tuner.
I hope you can come up with "something" on that Beam
Box.
Roger

PS - I would like to see how the APS Intenna does
against the two you have for starters ...

--- Jim <jim@fmtunerinfo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
I've begun the long promised indoor antenna survey.
Our thanks to
John Via for buying a Godar Super Antenna FM-1A and
Jesse for the
loan of a BIC Beam Box Model FM 10 to start things
off. I have
learned one thing already. I want my roof antenna
back!!! Ed? Have
any indoor antenna you want to throw against the tough
competition?
8:-) jim...


Re: TX-9800

Ray McDonald <raym@...>
 

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "audiorexic" <DHREAY@a...> wrote:
I particularly am interested in the results of a Pioneer TX 9800
modification as I own one. I would be curious if after everything,
if
the results justify having someone modify one.

Thx

Dennis
Hi Dennis,
I've got to eat a little crow with this post but I always aim for the
truth. In my replies to your inquiries I said the TX-9800 w/mods was
burning in but professed little faith in the value of that process.
In post #9647 I stated the TX-9800 was good but not up to my Hitachi
FT-5500MKII. Well, don't we all learn all the time if we let it
happen? Carefull listening and switching twixt tonight (many hours of
burn in) left little doubt, the Pioneer wins with better
depth/life/ambience/whatever. I can't deny my shoot out champ has
been bettered.

Should you have this done? It's you're economic choice but the
improvement is real, it just isn't sudden.

Now regarding post # 9724. In spite of my advice to others this guy
can no longer restrain response.

FT-5500MKII sounds like a constipated kazoo? This judgement led to
deep analytical study. If you don't like the sound of a constipated
kazoo we felt you would prefer its opposite. So, for study we
obtained a tuba. It made no sound alone so we hired a 400# player,
fed him a generous meal of Saur Kraut followed by an Exlax desert.
We're not sure of the audio result but we now know what you were full
of!
Sorry all,
RFM


Indoor antenna survey begins tomorrow

Jim <jim@fmtunerinfo.com>
 

I've begun the long promised indoor antenna survey. Our thanks to
John Via for buying a Godar Super Antenna FM-1A and Jesse for the
loan of a BIC Beam Box Model FM 10 to start things off. I have
learned one thing already. I want my roof antenna back!!! Ed? Have
any indoor antenna you want to throw against the tough competition?
8:-) jim...


Re: How to pack a tuner for shipment

Don O'Brien <dobrien25@...>
 

At 01:50 PM 07/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:

If it came off eBay give the seller bad feedback if it was poorly packed.
I bought a Scott LT-110 tuber tuner off ebay, and It was a miracle the
tuner was received in one piece. Cushioning consisted of newspaper. Flat,
uncrumpled, newspaper. Three tubes were bouncing around loose; and tubes
require q uite a bit of force to come out of a socket. Evidently, a cross
country trip has enough vibration.
I gave negative feedback, and the seller complained to me.
This Message was sent using 100% re-cycled electrons.


Stax F-81 speakers

Gary Rotenberg <smollett5@...>
 

Admittedly way off topic, but does anyone have any experience with Stax F-81 electrostatic speakers?  Any information about sound quality, power needed to drive them and repair locations would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks.
 
Gary


Re: Multipath Question

Barrie Smith
 

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:02 PM
Subject: [FMtuners] Multipath Question

Here's one for some of you RF engineers:

We live in a very mountainous area and we find we sometimes get our
best signal when we have our outdoor antenna pointed one of the nearby
mountains and not directly at the location of the FM transmitter for
the station we're listening to.

We're assuming we're actually listening to the FM signal being
"bounced" off the mountain. 

Is this a correct assumption?
Yes.  And sometimes (at VHF/UHF) that's the only way to receive certain signals.
 
Barrie, in the mountains, in Montana  (Not an engineer, just a ham)


Thanks.



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Re: tuna frequency response question

ammonsphx
 

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "sedond" <dsedon@n...> wrote:
hi all,

the specs on my h/k citation 18 indicate a frequency response
of "10hz
to 50khz (before de-emphasis)". what's this mean? (19khz & 38khz
rejection are rated at 61db, fwiw.) while i *do* tink this tuna
(modded), has about the best frequency extension in my limited
tuna-sampling experience, the treble extension spec really has me
wondering...

regards,

doug s.
Hi- they are talking about the "composite response" of what the
demodulator (ratio detector - quad detector) is, including any
effects from the IF strip.

The response should be as linear as possible from just a few Hz to 70
or 80 kHz for best stereo separation, and fidelity.

A typical late model analog FM exiter will have a frequency response
of +/- 0.5 dB 2Hz to 100 kHz, with no more than 1 degree of phase
error. That will make it possible to transmit a signal with 65 dB of
separation at 1 kHz.

Bill Ammons


Re: Help on Modifying the Mitsubishi DA-F10

ammonsphx
 

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Auyeung" <aaronauyeung2@h...>
wrote:
I am new to the FM tuner world and as I read more about it, I got
more
fascinated by it. Recently I bought a used Mitsubishi DA-F10 and
would like
to modify it. However, there is not very much info on modifying the
DA-F10.
Can anyone give me any suggestion on how I should modify it. Also,
can
anyone help me to identify the 2 narrow filters in the attached
photo?
Thanks.
Hi- I have done a few of these units, and have one open as I write.
Filter A and B are in the narrow IF chain and are bypassed while in
the wide IF mode. In the narrow mode they feed the larger Diatone
wide filter block to the left. In stock form the A and B filters are
280 kHz parts. Going to narrower filters, or adding filters will
really help out this unit out in the narrow mode.

Filters C and D are in the strip that feeds the scope output. This
path does not carry the signal you hear.

Audio Chain:

The de-emphasis value needs to be reset to 75uS. Changing R148, and R
149 to 4.99k (1%) , and C 139, C140 to 0.015 uF will brighten up this
unit.

Change C401 and C501 to 10 uF. Change C402 and C502 to 22uF. Change
C403 and C503 to 10 uF. Change C404 and C504 to 22 uF.

Change C130 to 470 uF.

It's a great sounding unit when it's cleaned up a bit.

Bill Ammons
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Re: My Yamaha T-2 Needs Your Help - Big Time!!!

Ryan <rmhuizenga@avemarialaw.edu>
 

Marc,

I don't know if I ever posted this. It was awhile ago and I don't
remember anymore. But you can stuff an LED into the bulb holders
without a lot of difficulty. The Blue LEDs are the most expensive
ones, but at only about $10 or $15 to buy them all piecemeal at
RatShack, it won't run you broke by any means. Don Scott shouldn't
have any difficulty figuring out which LEDs and resistors to use,
but I'll check it out anyway. Expect a post Sunday or thereabouts..
if I remember to check it. =)

Incidentally, I highly recommend the blue. It makes this tuner look
brand new and looks totally cool.

Best regards,

Ryan

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "Marc D Pereira" <mdp0430@h...>
wrote:
Yes! Yes! Yes! I was wondering about whether I could switch the
color of the lamps! Don Scott will be doing the work on my unit as
I have no idea what I'm doing. Are there any adverse effects of
using lamps other than the stock ones? I'm a neophyte when it comes
to all of this... How do you go about finding all of this info in
the archives? A T2 search doesn't really come up with much...

Thanks guys..
Marc
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan
To: FMtuners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:41 PM


Re: Why are there no Telefunken tuners on the site?

sedond <dsedon@...>
 

i tink mark meant all the rest of us, not you. i also tink he was
joking...

i've only rarely seen these f/a on ebay - they look a lot like the
rohde & schwarz ballemfangers. usually sell for about as much,
also...

doug s.

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Maessen" <desk@p...> wrote:

Because we don't know how to spell it correctly?

Who is we!? You mean you! What school did you go to, If any?


Re: Why are there no Telefunken tuners on the site?

Johan Maessen <desk@...>
 

Because we don't know how to spell it correctly?

Who is we!? You mean you! What school did you go to, If any?


Why are there no Telefunken tuners on the site?

Johan Maessen <desk@...>
 

Just no tuners available or....

Does any of you know the Telefunken ballempfänger type 3156.

It supposed to be a modern digital relay receiver.


Re: Citation III noisy...

WL <npm98@...>
 

Noise gone now... I replaced an 6AU6 in the IF stage and the sound is
crystal clear agin... I bought a EZ 81 2 days ago but have not tried yet,
now after replacing that new rectifier tube, the sound become really good,
more on every thing top to bottom.
I think in a way CD source is synergetic with FM system, as the upper freq
limit of 15 Kc/s will tame the digital sound. If the FM station engineer
adjust to lower the order 22kc/s filter in their digital source, the sound
of the station can be even better then a poorly design CD player....
Just my 2 cent speculation...

William Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "WL" <npm98@pacific.net.sg>
To: <FMtuners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [FMtuners] Citation III noisy...


my HKCitation III suddently sounded bad with the signal burried under
noises. The signal meter stayed high.... what would eb teh possible cause?
the good thing is it sounded ok when I switched it off for about 2 secod
while the caps are discharging... So I suspect some kind of power supply
related problem at IF or RF stage.... Am I right...? pls help...!
by the way, the tuning meter does not move much, stay in the range of +/-
5
degree or so could it be due to resistor going bad...?


Re: My Yamaha T-2 Needs Your Help - Big Time!!!

Marc D Pereira <mdp0430@...>
 

Yes! Yes! Yes!  I was wondering about whether I could switch the color of the lamps!  Don Scott will be doing the work on my unit as I have no idea what I'm doing.  Are there any adverse effects of using lamps other than the stock ones?  I'm a neophyte when it comes to all of this...  How do you go about finding all of this info in the archives?  A T2 search doesn't really come up with much...
 
Thanks guys..
Marc

----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:41 PM
Subject: [FMtuners] Re: My Yamaha T-2 Needs Your Help - Big Time!!!

Paul,

> When replacing the lamps be *EXTREMELY* careful handling the
plastic
> dial scale.  Use rubber gloves if you have them.  The plastic

I don't entirely understand why he should even have to touch the
dial scale.  When I replaced my lamps, touching the dial scale was
not a problem.  Incidentally, if you want to make this thing look
REALLY cool, replace the bulbs with blue LEDs.  An LED in series
with a resistor works well.  Just don't accidentally leave the thing
on while you're doing it.  I did, dropped 14V across the chassis and
smoked the whole thing.  Looks cool all lit up in blue though.. =)

Marc,

> these repairs?  And, lastly what's a ballpark figure on all of
this???
>  I paid $300 for the unit as it is....

Not to disappoint you, but that was a really steep price for a unit
in that sort of shape.  Mint units usually go for about $225 to $275
on eBay, and you're looking at about 15 or 20 bucks in parts
(depending what you have or don't have), and a bunch of time. 
RatShack bulbs should work fine, even if they're not quite the right
voltage.  Just use a higher voltage bulb than stock.  I can't
remember what it is anymore, but check the archives on the forum. 

Best regards,

Ryan




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Re: bridge rectifiers

Ray McDonald <raym@...>
 

.

Actually, fast recovery diodes will produce *less* noise on
the supply rail. Coupled with improved current capability
and reduced ripple, this is goodness. I can't say it will
audibly (or even measurably) improve the tuner performance,
but some purists derive pleasure from knowing that their
equipment is the best that it can possibly be, regardless
of practical considerations.

-- Ron
Right on Ron,
My first use/test with the fast recoveries, which also featured
reduced forward drop, showed less ripple on the scope. This was on a
Pioneer TX-9800 which draws 300ma. Of course this also included
higher cap/lower esr Black Gate filters which I surmise are further
helped by the better diodes. Having said that, does it really matter
when all this is followed by a deep cut regulator? Well, I'll just be
a happy purist on this one.
Best regards,
RFM >
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tuna frequency response question

sedond <dsedon@...>
 

hi all,

the specs on my h/k citation 18 indicate a frequency response of "10hz
to 50khz (before de-emphasis)". what's this mean? (19khz & 38khz
rejection are rated at 61db, fwiw.) while i *do* tink this tuna
(modded), has about the best frequency extension in my limited
tuna-sampling experience, the treble extension spec really has me
wondering...

regards,

doug s.


Re: Is the tuner market collapsing?

sedond <dsedon@...>
 

a digitally compressed signal offering "drasticly improved" sound
quality?!? this statement yust indicates to me that ya have never
heard a quality tuna on a quality rig w/a quality broadcast signal...

regards,

doug s.

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, mc2500rich@n... wrote:
If the samples on the ibiquity web site are truly indicitive of the
what
would happen in the field, then I am all for it. The sound quality is
drasticly improved and I would buy a tuner to decode the digital sound.

r


bob@f... wrote:
From the info I looked at, it seems like the Ibiqity "digital on
analog" system basicly extends into the adjacent channels on either
side of the normal analog station. So it occupies about 300-400kHz
total, vs. the current 150-200kHz. I think this Ibiquity system is
basicly a digital marketing hype with no substance. Unlike vinyl
records with scratches and pops compared to CDs, current FM has no
noise or convenience problems that a new format would solve. Its like
paying more for a new TV that has the same resolution, or less, than
the old one. Who needs that?
Bob

Bob
--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, Charles Peterson <charlesp@d...>
wrote:
>
> > What if the tuner is demodulating the L-R signal using the upper
sideband?
>
> I thought the typical "vestigial sideband" or "quasi-vestigial
sideband"
> MPX uses the lower sideband. I recall that's what the Marantz 10B,
the
> Scotts, and maybe even a SS Pioneer or two do. The theory is that
the
> upper sideband has more noise, because of the way noise increases
with
> frequency. Also there is the additional SCA and now other
sidebands up
> high, and it's easier to keep them out if you're just using the
lower sideband.
> Also there's more harmonics and grunge related to those sidebands
up higher.
> It's true, you have to be concerned about keeping the baseband and
the
> lower sideband separate, but generally you have a steep baseband
filter
> above 15K anyway.
>
> Charles


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Re: Is the tuner market collapsing?

newaag
 

--- In FMtuners@yahoogroups.com, mc2500rich@n... wrote:
If the samples on the ibiquity web site are truly indicitive of the
what
would happen in the field, then I am all for it. The sound quality
is
drasticly improved and I would buy a tuner to decode the digital
sound.

r
Are you comparing it to AM or FM ? If FM, what tuner are you
listening to now? and what listening faults would the digital system
correct?

And remember, it will be like a digital cell phone - all or nothing.

If you are in a fringe area and that is why your FM quality is poor,
forget about digital - it admittedly has less range than FM as we
know it today. So much less, that the manufacturers will need to put
both a traditional FM radio and the new digital radio into car units,
and it will "switch over" to traditional FM when the digital signal
is lost. Last report I read, this hybrid receiver had not even been
field proven yet. It was being done in "software".

As for the quality of a compressed low bandwidth digital signal, how
can that ever be "better" than a "no digital compression" signal? I
am of course aware 99% of the material played on FM comes from CDs,
with the exception being live concert broadcasts. The only area it
will win is in stereo separation, but I don't really think that is
much of an issue, especially for people driving cars. It is not an
issue for vinyl loving audiophiles.

Bob