Date   
Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

What is the input voltage? What is the machine configured for?



On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 8:26 PM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
This is the picture I tried to upload earlier of the control board with the red lights.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

This is the picture I tried to upload earlier of the control board with the red lights.

Checked all connections and I got what seemed to be normal readings. 2.3V DC on stepper motor connections. 60V AC on input Power and 5V DC on Stepper Power source.

All seems well on this, no power drop

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Rcflyer as far as retracing all connection points goes, I checked every connector and got around 60V AC on the AC 95 board with only a few points not having any power(reading 0V). They pretty much seem to be ok as far as I know. I do not know which circuits are at 0V when machine is waiting for instruction so I'm unsure which 0V reading indicates a problem. 

The 1DC0.M1 has red lights instead of green so I'm willing to guess the problem I may be having is in between this board and the PC communication card. How can I go about checking this?

Ok it wouldn't let me upload the picture of the control board. I'll try again later

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

At switch points 3,4 I get 51.8V AC each.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Picture of AC 95 board connectors.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

Thanks for the posts gentlemen, have a very good sense of the quality of the machine and its purposes. I'm certain I can make some quality parts once I get them functional not to mention learn alot about industrial systems that are in operation at the professional level. 

For now I made some connectors that will make troubleshooting easier. I started checking voltages at the switch. Results from connections 3, 4 are yielding AC voltage of 51.9 and 51.9 on the switch.

On X111 there are only three connection points out of 4. 1 gives 61.1V, 2 is blank, 3 gives 0.0, 4 gives 61.5V. This tells me there is voltage coming through to X111 on the AC 95 board.

On X110 there are only two points used of 4. Point 1 gives 61.6V and 4 gives 0.0V.

So far this seems to coincide with the led lights on the board. Where there is power there is lights.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

lmcinroy
 

Well said David , I have two compact 5 CNC mk 4 in use since 1985 and still giving value for money . You are right they were training machines but with care and not overloading work well compared with more expensive alternatives.
I have made some simple mods which have greatly aided their longevity.
Replaced the plastic gib strips with brass.
Added simple oilers to saddle as on cross slide, this did require drilling cross holes to reach the bed at the front vee and at the rear.
Two or three squirts from the oil gun as required kept all slides moving well.
I would agree Emco got it right even for a lowly machine

Regards Frank McInroy

On 12 Nov 2019 17:21, "David Rabenius via Groups.Io" <swedeson2002@...> wrote:
Toys?, these machines were meant for training not for production. They were so over engineered & quality for their intended purpose. They are some of the best out there for the homeshop guy. I have made HUNDREDS of parts on my machines. If you need more capacity then as  they say go Big or go home. I laugh when someone asks how "fast" are the rapids, I tell them you are only travelling less than few inches at a time. At work we have a Fiber Laser that has over 12,000 ipm. rapids but we never run it anywhere close to that.
EMCO CNC machines have somewhat of a bad rap from many people that are frustrated with buying incomplete machines or not having expirence with CNC & electronics. When I resided in Arizona several local club members would dump on EMCO not knowing the quality and capacity of these machines. Frequently I would hear  the outrage of buying a EMCO ER\ESX collet and paying (then) the absurd price of $30 per collet. Champagne dreams with a Harbor Freight budget or even better was" something for nothing". The EMCO collets were made by Schaublin (Swiss made) and were some of the highest standard collets made. Members would say hell I can get 16 collets for $40.00 on ebay.
  I definitely feel that the EMCO Maier machines have a Germanic intelligence about them and dealing with the old company rang even truer. I feel for the money that they are some of the best used machines you can buy. I have bought MANY EMCO machines  and tell people who ask my feelings. They are some of the best you can buy. Sure, if your filthy rich and have the power & space buy that Okuma, Micron, Matsuura, Mori Seiki,  then bitch about THOSE prices.

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:15:17 AM EST, rcflyer <sclcl082@...> wrote:


Practical Machinist will not be of much help. They generally don't play with machines this small (toys). Having looked everywhere for help with the small and less small Emco machines, this group and what was/is(?) the Yahoo Emco group with many of the same members will be most knowledgeable about the electronics and control.

These machines share nothing in common with machines running Fanuc/Siemens, etc., controls. Troubleshooting power is much the same, but other than Emco owners, not many are specifically familiar. Numbers of these machines are very low.

Follow the schematic and find where power drops out. Check the fuses and reseat every connector. I resorted to reflowing every connector pin in one of my machines to solve an intermittent problem and finally found a pin trace that lifted from the board.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?


Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

arjan.dijk
 

Definitly agree on the over engineered part. I have the idea that on purpose they included some small parts or weak motors to make sure that the machine stalls before it breaks.

If I had to buy them new nowadays I would not pay €20k for a mill 55 (that is almost 20 years in the catalog) that has a hard time machining aluminium and steel en go for a Haas minimill that has 4 times the machining area, 8 times the power and proper cooling.

Arjan

Op di 12 nov. 2019 om 18:21 schreef David Rabenius via Groups.Io <swedeson2002=yahoo.com@groups.io>:

Toys?, these machines were meant for training not for production. They were so over engineered & quality for their intended purpose. They are some of the best out there for the homeshop guy. I have made HUNDREDS of parts on my machines. If you need more capacity then as  they say go Big or go home. I laugh when someone asks how "fast" are the rapids, I tell them you are only travelling less than few inches at a time. At work we have a Fiber Laser that has over 12,000 ipm. rapids but we never run it anywhere close to that.
EMCO CNC machines have somewhat of a bad rap from many people that are frustrated with buying incomplete machines or not having expirence with CNC & electronics. When I resided in Arizona several local club members would dump on EMCO not knowing the quality and capacity of these machines. Frequently I would hear  the outrage of buying a EMCO ER\ESX collet and paying (then) the absurd price of $30 per collet. Champagne dreams with a Harbor Freight budget or even better was" something for nothing". The EMCO collets were made by Schaublin (Swiss made) and were some of the highest standard collets made. Members would say hell I can get 16 collets for $40.00 on ebay.
  I definitely feel that the EMCO Maier machines have a Germanic intelligence about them and dealing with the old company rang even truer. I feel for the money that they are some of the best used machines you can buy. I have bought MANY EMCO machines  and tell people who ask my feelings. They are some of the best you can buy. Sure, if your filthy rich and have the power & space buy that Okuma, Micron, Matsuura, Mori Seiki,  then bitch about THOSE prices.

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:15:17 AM EST, rcflyer <sclcl082@...> wrote:


Practical Machinist will not be of much help. They generally don't play with machines this small (toys). Having looked everywhere for help with the small and less small Emco machines, this group and what was/is(?) the Yahoo Emco group with many of the same members will be most knowledgeable about the electronics and control.

These machines share nothing in common with machines running Fanuc/Siemens, etc., controls. Troubleshooting power is much the same, but other than Emco owners, not many are specifically familiar. Numbers of these machines are very low.

Follow the schematic and find where power drops out. Check the fuses and reseat every connector. I resorted to reflowing every connector pin in one of my machines to solve an intermittent problem and finally found a pin trace that lifted from the board.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

David Rabenius
 

Toys?, these machines were meant for training not for production. They were so over engineered & quality for their intended purpose. They are some of the best out there for the homeshop guy. I have made HUNDREDS of parts on my machines. If you need more capacity then as  they say go Big or go home. I laugh when someone asks how "fast" are the rapids, I tell them you are only travelling less than few inches at a time. At work we have a Fiber Laser that has over 12,000 ipm. rapids but we never run it anywhere close to that.
EMCO CNC machines have somewhat of a bad rap from many people that are frustrated with buying incomplete machines or not having expirence with CNC & electronics. When I resided in Arizona several local club members would dump on EMCO not knowing the quality and capacity of these machines. Frequently I would hear  the outrage of buying a EMCO ER\ESX collet and paying (then) the absurd price of $30 per collet. Champagne dreams with a Harbor Freight budget or even better was" something for nothing". The EMCO collets were made by Schaublin (Swiss made) and were some of the highest standard collets made. Members would say hell I can get 16 collets for $40.00 on ebay.
  I definitely feel that the EMCO Maier machines have a Germanic intelligence about them and dealing with the old company rang even truer. I feel for the money that they are some of the best used machines you can buy. I have bought MANY EMCO machines  and tell people who ask my feelings. They are some of the best you can buy. Sure, if your filthy rich and have the power & space buy that Okuma, Micron, Matsuura, Mori Seiki,  then bitch about THOSE prices.

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:15:17 AM EST, rcflyer <sclcl082@...> wrote:


Practical Machinist will not be of much help. They generally don't play with machines this small (toys). Having looked everywhere for help with the small and less small Emco machines, this group and what was/is(?) the Yahoo Emco group with many of the same members will be most knowledgeable about the electronics and control.

These machines share nothing in common with machines running Fanuc/Siemens, etc., controls. Troubleshooting power is much the same, but other than Emco owners, not many are specifically familiar. Numbers of these machines are very low.

Follow the schematic and find where power drops out. Check the fuses and reseat every connector. I resorted to reflowing every connector pin in one of my machines to solve an intermittent problem and finally found a pin trace that lifted from the board.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

Practical Machinist will not be of much help. They generally don't play with machines this small (toys). Having looked everywhere for help with the small and less small Emco machines, this group and what was/is(?) the Yahoo Emco group with many of the same members will be most knowledgeable about the electronics and control.

These machines share nothing in common with machines running Fanuc/Siemens, etc., controls. Troubleshooting power is much the same, but other than Emco owners, not many are specifically familiar. Numbers of these machines are very low.

Follow the schematic and find where power drops out. Check the fuses and reseat every connector. I resorted to reflowing every connector pin in one of my machines to solve an intermittent problem and finally found a pin trace that lifted from the board.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

MSD is not the issue.

Transformers don't go into standby. To get a proper reading for transformer input measure across 0 and 110V and 220V, not from PE (earth). Though, with normal DC outputs I don't think this is your issue.

This post contains a link for schematics for your machine. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/27319-emco-pc-turn-55-upgrade?start=30#77551

If we look at 1DA0.C1 we see the transformer. The next page 1DA0.M1 shows a filter between the trafo and AC95 input connector A2-X100 (pins 3,4). I'd check that next.

btw, the photos of the cabinet are tiny


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Oh ok I was just re-reading the thread and saw where you mentioned putting them on the files section. Thanks for that. I will get them and look them over tonight. So far nothing stands out as the source of the issue, may be a software thing as mentioned. I dont have money to spend on trying the software route only to find it is a hardware issue. I dont like the idea of selling the machines because I cant figure out how to get them functional. I will keep trying with help from the group. Thank you gentlemen for helping.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

wild_kow
 

Hi,

I uploaded those to the website last week, you should have received a message from groups.io informing you. I uploaded for the 55 and 50 machines in two new respective folders.

I hope you can make sense of them for your problem.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181@...>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 8:53:29 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
Checked the AC 95 board with multimeter. Got very low voltage readings on the connectors in the pic. Reading was .04 DC on the 20Volt setting on multimeter. I would expect this in a standby mode. Not sure if that is normal.

How are we coming along on the electrical schematics wild_kow? Would you send me the pdf you mentioned when you have some time?

Other connectors either read 0 or -0 when I checked for voltage.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

Got 0.0 or -0.0 a couple wires had low voltage 0.02 DC on these connectors labeled by blue circles again all indicative of standby power.
 I checked the transformer on the back panel and connectors read:
labeled 0 reading 0, labeled 110 reading 22.7 AC, labeled 230 reading 48.7 AC, labeled -24 reading 0DC,  labeled +24 reading 28.3DC, lebeld -30 reading 0DC, labeled +30 reading 32.7DC
Fuses on the transformer were both good.

Transformer seemed to be ok with the 0 voltages indicative of standby? I'm not sure here.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Checked the AC 95 board with multimeter. Got very low voltage readings on the connectors in the pic. Reading was .04 DC on the 20Volt setting on multimeter. I would expect this in a standby mode. Not sure if that is normal.

How are we coming along on the electrical schematics wild_kow? Would you send me the pdf you mentioned when you have some time?

Other connectors either read 0 or -0 when I checked for voltage.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

Recieved a response from emco-world. They said they would send MSD files and licensing info although I would have to pay for the licensing. Does this sound right to you guys? I believe they are asking for payment for licensing for newer version of WinNC. Did anyone ever pay for theirs and how much did it cost?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Looked at the file system in the WinNC folder. PC's are on correct machine. One is a very old 386 that has no usb ports. I would need to buy a usb card for that old system for usb functionality. Not if it interferes with IRQ assignments.

I know it can get quirky the more software is being run. Especially on older limited machines.

Anyway, that Avenue has not yielded any progress so moving onto the 24v check. I will do after I write emco for MSD files.

Will post results later tonight with pics.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

If you think the PC are mixed up between machines, in  C:\Winnc32 there is a folder with the machine name, ie.,  \Turn55. In that directory you'll see the MSD files. The PRG directory will contain programs, sub programs for canned cycles, and several other files. There is a WNCFG or similar directory, I think those are data for the winconfig program for options and settings. But basically, there is nothing to be done in any of these folders unless you're copying programs in explorer vs. the control.

By "if something has changed" I mean that unless you changed or deleted the MSD, it will still be configured for the machine. These settings don't go away by themselves. I don't think I've ever dealt with the CMOS IRQ assignments, but it's possible if the CMOS battery has been dead, these need to be checked. This is about the only thing that could have changed "by itself".

I don't have install disks. Emco did send me the install files for the CM155 I'm working on, but I got the original PC running. I do however keep cloned HDD for my Emco machines. No install needed.

3.5" Floppy disks? I have a stack for transferring programs to the machines using a USB 3.5" drive on my main PC. I was worried installing USB drivers would conflict with IRQ assignments, so I never tried. Recently,  I've been told you can install USB drivers on the W95/98 AC95 machines and use a USB stick to move files using explorer.

Basically, if you moved an axis before, this means everything was working, even if you had no idea what you were doing. It should not take much to get going again assuming all components are working. Check fuses and measure the 24V output. Checking voltage at the power supply output connector is a good place to start.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 1:17 AM wild_kow <jwild@...> wrote:
One question which is probably stupid but if each machine has its own PC, is the correct PC connected to the correct machine because both machines show the same symptoms? The WinNC installations are different.

When you install WinNC you need the 3.5 inch floppies (you can still buy blank ones). Early on, the computer asks for the MSD so it knows what files to install, then you continue using the specifically requested disks from the set as necessary. You must make  at least two backups of the Emco disks because they can easily get corrupted.

It sounds as if there is a PC installation issue and a new installation may well be a sensible route but you do need the proper disks.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181=hotmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 3:37:59 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
I didnt mention this before but each machine has it's own pc. They each have their own installation of WinNC and WinConfig. I played with WinConfig options a bit to look for possible settings screen and there are some that indicate communication between pc and emco but nothing I knew to change. Perhaps the MSD disk is all that is needed.

New file uploaded to Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io

Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io Notification <Emco-CNC-Users+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io group.

Uploaded By: wild_kow <jwild@...>

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team