Date   
Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

Art Fenerty <fenerty@...>
 

  Depends on the definition of real-time. Mach3 did do up to 100,000 pulses per second while running windows xp and Win7 when they were 32 bit. It would still run 
today in Win10 if microsoft hadnt encrypted the memory locations I used to facilatate it. I used to reliably get 10us call backs even while running many threads and programs. 
 Its as close as Ive seen to realtime from Windows. 

Art

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

cjlear
 

On 19/11/2019 1:15 am, gsnalven@... wrote:
My experience is as an embedded hardware control engineer. Microsoft Windows is an incredible piece of software that runs on a PC and does a great job running spreadsheets, word processors and certainly number crunching and graphic displays. It has no inherent real time control capabilities...
My experience is as a computer engineer, the last Windows to have any real-time capability was Windows NT 3xx, and that was essentially OS/2 with a Microsoft front end. Windows is a massive POS bloatware that expands to fill any hardware resources you throw at it :)

Cheers

 Charlie

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

marty_in_mesa
 

I can appreciate your experience.
To set the record straight about Centroid. The motion control is handled by the Beaglebone green, not Windows. Windows is the graphical user interface.
While you may find it is "amateurish" Centroid's specialty is and always has been CNC Machine motion control for over 30 years.
As was previously mentioned many other commercial CNC Machine manufacturers also use Windows for the GUI, but real time machine motion control is handled by a dedicated motion control processor.

I don't argue your point about China and we can't avoid purchasing hardware made in China. BUT I prefer to work with vendors in the US that can support the hardware.
There are many Chinese companies that are of poor quality and offer little or no support. The opposite is true as well. Its just my choice to use US vendors and let them be the go between.

Again, I respect your choices and you appear to do the same. 
This forum isn't the place to contest the points. It is the Emco_CNC-User's forum where anything with respect to the Emco lathes may be discussed openly and freely, and to be a resource for all Emco CNC lathe users. Many like to keep true to the original control, many don't have the experience to do a CNC conversion, many acquire these wonderful little lathes and wish to upgrade the control. No matter which. Ultimately it is the user's that decide after their research.

Respectfully,
Marty


On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 7:15 AM <gsnalven@...> wrote:
My experience is as an embedded hardware control engineer. An industrial "PC" platform is an incredible piece of hardware capable of doing this job as the central controller, Microsoft Windows is an incredible piece of software that runs on a PC and does a great job running spreadsheets, word processors and certainly number crunching and graphic displays. It has no inherent real time control capabilities and I have a hard time imagining any of the manufacturers on your list using it to run 5 axis integrated closed loop servo system plus a spindle at high speeds. You may be right, I don't see it. I know the Mazak uses Windows terminals for simulations and remote data. I also know the Heidenhain uses Linux not Windows.

Do you think they use a buffer board to send real-time feedback to the controller? I think Buffer and real-time are mutually exclusive terms.

I am done with this subject. There may be an example but I am not convinced. I said that I would not use Windows because I know how it operates and as a consumer product would not satisfy my requirements. Do you really think that these hobby implementations are performing on the same platform as a half million dollar machine?

On to the subject that interest me a lot. China trade, I have 40 years experience in China and lived there for 10 years. I have seen how they operate and they are currently literally eating our lunch. I support the administrations current trade policies as the playing field is far from level. I use to sell them a lot of product but those days are gone. This does not mean that I will not do business with them and in fact there really is no alternative for many materials. For example, I tried to find an alternative for circuit boards (PCBs), I did not get much from an internet search, I could pay 3 or 4 times as much for US made product forcing me to significantly increase the cost of my product. I would say 30 to 40% of my materials are made in China.

There are risks in dealing with China and we must overcome them. In doing so, we have visited many suppliers factories. Many are not manufacturers just trading companies selling whatever product. Many Chinese products are copies of other Chinese products so you never really know what you are getting. A few manufactures are absolutely world class first rate (also usually associated with the PLA!). Those are the products we want.

To the point of your question. One of those products is a toy of unknown origin the other is a machine tool controller developed for industrial applications. Without actually interviewing the suppliers I cannot be sure of anything and if I were to use this in a manufactured piece of equipment I would need to visit the companies involved. I did contact the seller of the later product, they have sales in English and they sent me manuals, its a massive 400x245x120mm. This device has very impressive capabilities; on paper. I cannot judge the true performance at this time. Their website is www.szghauto.com  and I don't think its a couple guys working out of their basement.

On eBay, I also avoid taking sellers named "goodtoolbuy" or "luckyproducts" too seriously. Check the fit and finish, the photos, how many other vendors offer the same thing manufacturer's name on the product.

Anyway, this is how I see things and what my plans are, Why do people feel compelled to tell me what they did? I certainly did my research and read their accounts.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

My experience is as an embedded hardware control engineer. An industrial "PC" platform is an incredible piece of hardware capable of doing this job as the central controller, Microsoft Windows is an incredible piece of software that runs on a PC and does a great job running spreadsheets, word processors and certainly number crunching and graphic displays. It has no inherent real time control capabilities and I have a hard time imagining any of the manufacturers on your list using it to run 5 axis integrated closed loop servo system plus a spindle at high speeds. You may be right, I don't see it. I know the Mazak uses Windows terminals for simulations and remote data. I also know the Heidenhain uses Linux not Windows.

Do you think they use a buffer board to send real-time feedback to the controller? I think Buffer and real-time are mutually exclusive terms.

I am done with this subject. There may be an example but I am not convinced. I said that I would not use Windows because I know how it operates and as a consumer product would not satisfy my requirements. Do you really think that these hobby implementations are performing on the same platform as a half million dollar machine?

On to the subject that interest me a lot. China trade, I have 40 years experience in China and lived there for 10 years. I have seen how they operate and they are currently literally eating our lunch. I support the administrations current trade policies as the playing field is far from level. I use to sell them a lot of product but those days are gone. This does not mean that I will not do business with them and in fact there really is no alternative for many materials. For example, I tried to find an alternative for circuit boards (PCBs), I did not get much from an internet search, I could pay 3 or 4 times as much for US made product forcing me to significantly increase the cost of my product. I would say 30 to 40% of my materials are made in China.

There are risks in dealing with China and we must overcome them. In doing so, we have visited many suppliers factories. Many are not manufacturers just trading companies selling whatever product. Many Chinese products are copies of other Chinese products so you never really know what you are getting. A few manufactures are absolutely world class first rate (also usually associated with the PLA!). Those are the products we want.

To the point of your question. One of those products is a toy of unknown origin the other is a machine tool controller developed for industrial applications. Without actually interviewing the suppliers I cannot be sure of anything and if I were to use this in a manufactured piece of equipment I would need to visit the companies involved. I did contact the seller of the later product, they have sales in English and they sent me manuals, its a massive 400x245x120mm. This device has very impressive capabilities; on paper. I cannot judge the true performance at this time. Their website is www.szghauto.com  and I don't think its a couple guys working out of their basement.

On eBay, I also avoid taking sellers named "goodtoolbuy" or "luckyproducts" too seriously. Check the fit and finish, the photos, how many other vendors offer the same thing manufacturer's name on the product.

Anyway, this is how I see things and what my plans are, Why do people feel compelled to tell me what they did? I certainly did my research and read their accounts.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

arjan.dijk
 

I'm curious about the differences with this (more expensive) control and this model that can be 3 times cheaper.

To be clear. There are more controls than you want to know running windows. To name a few
  • Mazak Matrix/Smooth
  • Heidenhain 640/530
  • Hurco
  • Masterwood
  • Xilog
I think most of them are offloading the timing to a shield/buffer, a bit like the Ethernet Mach3 boards.

Op zo 17 nov. 2019 om 19:11 schreef <gsnalven@...>:

Thanks for the open mind. Not so sure about pushers. I am currently collecting parts, I did post a link to some very high quality Japanese steppers for original "look" replacement as they are round, but a little bit shorter, fit the heat sink nicely. They are a close-out at $10 each. I bought 3 of them.

This is what I am currently looking at.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-price-2-Axis-CNC-Lathe-Controller-CNC990TDb-English-panel-MPG-Relay-box/264357803923?hash=item3d8cf3f793:g:vfQAAOSwF71ZyMy7

We buy components direct from China and currently talking to the manufacturer of this panel. My selection is the TDc model that does both incremental and absolute. This will give me a stand alone machine that I can operate from this controller like most CNC equipment, as well as, connect to a PC to download G-Code from CAD software or other sources.

Seems to me the right way to do it. I will post photos when completed. Just one of many ways to refit.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

Thanks for the open mind. Not so sure about pushers. I am currently collecting parts, I did post a link to some very high quality Japanese steppers for original "look" replacement as they are round, but a little bit shorter, fit the heat sink nicely. They are a close-out at $10 each. I bought 3 of them.

This is what I am currently looking at.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-price-2-Axis-CNC-Lathe-Controller-CNC990TDb-English-panel-MPG-Relay-box/264357803923?hash=item3d8cf3f793:g:vfQAAOSwF71ZyMy7

We buy components direct from China and currently talking to the manufacturer of this panel. My selection is the TDc model that does both incremental and absolute. This will give me a stand alone machine that I can operate from this controller like most CNC equipment, as well as, connect to a PC to download G-Code from CAD software or other sources.

Seems to me the right way to do it. I will post photos when completed. Just one of many ways to refit.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

David Rabenius
 

So, what retrofit have you come up with?? Nobody here is trying to push ANYTHING, just what they did. Looking forwards to seeing your retrofit.

Dave

On Sunday, November 17, 2019, 09:44:42 AM EST, gsnalven@... <gsnalven@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]

It seems that my original post has become inundated with advertisements for a product called Acorn and its promoters video channel. Let me tell you why I am not using this product. If you are, good for you, you used what you wanted to use, don't insult my abilities and experience with you provincial attitudes.

A list so I can keep this short and to the point:
  • Acorn hardware is built on a low cost general purpose hobby electronics module. I know this module and have used it for prototyping.
  • It uses a proprietary and what looks like an amateurish breakout board with connections all around.
  • It uses proprietary software running on a PC.
  • It uses a PC. I am unaware of any professional equipment that uses a PC to run things, especially one on Windows.They are unreliable, prone to crashing, always need updating, the disk light is always flickering, has poor real time controls. And if you ever connect it to the internet there is little control of what folly can be attached. Or for that matter plugging in an infect USB.
  • Did I say, it runs on a PC?
I intend to put together a stand alone CNC lathe much like the original Compact 5 and every other piece of factory built CNC equipment I have ever used. Please start your own posts if you want to push a particular product and don't use mine to disparage my efforts. I do hope that other users will see the quality's of a proper Compact 5 refit.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

I am talking abut the controller not the Cad/Cam system. Hop as you like!

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

Roderick Mellott
 

That's funny because almost all the industrial machines I have used use a windows operating software. Albeit the machines i am talking abut are older 2004-2010 ect., but windows non the less, in conjunction with fanuc controllers.
 An embedded controller is not anything more than a dedicated compact version of a pc. The difference is, it is dedicated and the same should be done for CNC operation with a pc. 
 I also find the majority hopping on the Acorn bandwagon, but for the cost and flexibility of various and expanded uses, I use Pokeys.
 






On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 9:45 AM marty_in_mesa <marty.escarcega@...> wrote:
..and that includes the original control.

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 7:44 AM marty_in_mesa via Groups.Io <marty.escarcega=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
That's fine. Anyone is free to choose what they like and works best.

Likewise others are free to make suggestions and share personal experiences.

The posts will stay.

Thank you!
Marty

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 7:40 AM <gsnalven@...> wrote:
It seems that my original post has become inundated with advertisements for a product called Acorn and its promoters video channel. Let me tell you why I am not using this product. If you are, good for you, you used what you wanted to use, don't insult my abilities and experience with you provincial attitudes.

A list so I can keep this short and to the point:
  • Acorn hardware is built on a low cost general purpose hobby electronics module. I know this module and have used it for prototyping.
  • It uses a proprietary and what looks like an amateurish breakout board with connections all around.
  • It uses proprietary software running on a PC.
  • It uses a PC. I am unaware of any processional equipment that uses a PC to run things, especially one on Windows.They are unreliable, prone to crashing, always need updating, the disk light is always flickering, has poor real time controls. And if you ever connect it to the internet there is little control of what folly can be attached. Or for that matter plugging in an infect USB.
  • Did I say, it runs on a PC?
I intend to put together a stand alone CNC lathe much like the original Compact 5 and every other piece of factory built CNC equipment I have ever used. Please start your own posts if you want to push a particular product and don't use mine to disparage my efforts. I do hope that other users will see the quality's of a proper Compact 5 refit.

Compact 5 Video Board

gsnalven@...
 

This is a rather excellent piece of work by a fellow in Finland (I think). I have not seen it posted here and I emailed to ask if I could post his files but have not heard back from him. I don't think there is anything wrong with posting the URL of his web pages.

https://ketturi.kapsi.fi/2017/10/reverse-engineering-emco-cnc-video-controller/

Again, excellent work. I used it to repair my video board which was missing the character 'dot' in the 3rd column.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

marty_in_mesa
 

..and that includes the original control.


On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 7:44 AM marty_in_mesa via Groups.Io <marty.escarcega=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
That's fine. Anyone is free to choose what they like and works best.

Likewise others are free to make suggestions and share personal experiences.

The posts will stay.

Thank you!
Marty

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 7:40 AM <gsnalven@...> wrote:
It seems that my original post has become inundated with advertisements for a product called Acorn and its promoters video channel. Let me tell you why I am not using this product. If you are, good for you, you used what you wanted to use, don't insult my abilities and experience with you provincial attitudes.

A list so I can keep this short and to the point:
  • Acorn hardware is built on a low cost general purpose hobby electronics module. I know this module and have used it for prototyping.
  • It uses a proprietary and what looks like an amateurish breakout board with connections all around.
  • It uses proprietary software running on a PC.
  • It uses a PC. I am unaware of any processional equipment that uses a PC to run things, especially one on Windows.They are unreliable, prone to crashing, always need updating, the disk light is always flickering, has poor real time controls. And if you ever connect it to the internet there is little control of what folly can be attached. Or for that matter plugging in an infect USB.
  • Did I say, it runs on a PC?
I intend to put together a stand alone CNC lathe much like the original Compact 5 and every other piece of factory built CNC equipment I have ever used. Please start your own posts if you want to push a particular product and don't use mine to disparage my efforts. I do hope that other users will see the quality's of a proper Compact 5 refit.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

marty_in_mesa
 

That's fine. Anyone is free to choose what they like and works best.

Likewise others are free to make suggestions and share personal experiences.

The posts will stay.

Thank you!
Marty

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 7:40 AM <gsnalven@...> wrote:
It seems that my original post has become inundated with advertisements for a product called Acorn and its promoters video channel. Let me tell you why I am not using this product. If you are, good for you, you used what you wanted to use, don't insult my abilities and experience with you provincial attitudes.

A list so I can keep this short and to the point:
  • Acorn hardware is built on a low cost general purpose hobby electronics module. I know this module and have used it for prototyping.
  • It uses a proprietary and what looks like an amateurish breakout board with connections all around.
  • It uses proprietary software running on a PC.
  • It uses a PC. I am unaware of any processional equipment that uses a PC to run things, especially one on Windows.They are unreliable, prone to crashing, always need updating, the disk light is always flickering, has poor real time controls. And if you ever connect it to the internet there is little control of what folly can be attached. Or for that matter plugging in an infect USB.
  • Did I say, it runs on a PC?
I intend to put together a stand alone CNC lathe much like the original Compact 5 and every other piece of factory built CNC equipment I have ever used. Please start your own posts if you want to push a particular product and don't use mine to disparage my efforts. I do hope that other users will see the quality's of a proper Compact 5 refit.

Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 
Edited

It seems that my original post has become inundated with advertisements for a product called Acorn and its promoters video channel. Let me tell you why I am not using this product. If you are, good for you, you used what you wanted to use, don't insult my abilities and experience with you provincial attitudes.

A list so I can keep this short and to the point:
  • Acorn hardware is built on a low cost general purpose hobby electronics module. I know this module and have used it for prototyping.
  • It uses a proprietary and what looks like an amateurish breakout board with connections all around.
  • It uses proprietary software running on a PC.
  • It uses a PC. I am unaware of any professional equipment that uses a PC to run things, especially one on Windows.They are unreliable, prone to crashing, always need updating, the disk light is always flickering, has poor real time controls. And if you ever connect it to the internet there is little control of what folly can be attached. Or for that matter plugging in an infect USB.
  • Did I say, it runs on a PC?
I intend to put together a stand alone CNC lathe much like the original Compact 5 and every other piece of factory built CNC equipment I have ever used. Please start your own posts if you want to push a particular product and don't use mine to disparage my efforts. I do hope that other users will see the quality's of a proper Compact 5 refit.

Re: Another Compact 5 CNC Upgrade

marty_in_mesa
 

Thanks for the compliment. I do those videos to help those wanting to embark on the project. It is somewhat ambitious for those who haven't done a conversion.

The Emco CNC lathes are good little machines. Couple them with a more modern control and some closed loop steppers you can have a machine ready to go a number of years and more enjoyable to use.

Marty

On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 7:59 PM Michael <mebarn1@...> wrote:
The Acorn is a great choice for these machines. Marty probably doesn’t want to blow his own horn but his YouTube channel answered questions I wasn’t even smart enough to have. He has a great series on upgrading a PC5 plus a wealth of general information on the Acorn and CNC conversions .



Re: Another Compact 5 CNC Upgrade

Michael
 

The Acorn is a great choice for these machines. Marty probably doesn’t want to blow his own horn but his YouTube channel answered questions I wasn’t even smart enough to have. He has a great series on upgrading a PC5 plus a wealth of general information on the Acorn and CNC conversions .

Re: Another Compact 5 CNC Upgrade

John Driggers
 

Another vote for the Acorn here.  I personally found it a lot less hassle and at least as feature rich as MACH3.

Re: Another Compact 5 CNC Upgrade

marty_in_mesa
 

Do take a look at Centroid Acorn. Happens to be my favorite. Hardware and software from the same company specializing in CNC Machine motion control for over 30 years.
Has a true encoder port for threading, constant surface speed, rigid tapping including peck tapping as long as you put a REAL encoder belted at 1:1 with a timing belt as I have on the CNC5's


Centroid user forums: 


On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 9:39 AM <gsnalven@...> wrote:
Like everybody else I am upgrading my Compact 5. As an engineer in the 80s I am completely comfortable with the electronics and have done some repairs despite the lack of decent schematics. My machine spent a lot of time in a school but not a lot of time cutting metal. It was dirty when I got it and I did about a 50% disassembly to clean it. It was loaded with chips, mostly of the same type. The Z axis was way loose and this turned out to be just a ball screw nut needing re-tightening. What other little lathe is going to give you ball screws, hardened bed and a tool changer?

Mine works fine but being such an old example it needs updating. Some of my limitations are:
  • The lack of a good PC interface (for CAD)
  • Poor linear and angular 2 axis interpolation
  • Limited program lines (Cad systems spit out endless code!)
What I will do:
  • Replace steppers with more modern examples. I am going to try these https://www.applied-motion.com/products/stepper-motors/4023-820. These are round Nema 23s a little bit shorter but I think will work. 200SRR, Bipolar 75 oz, 1.3V 2.8A. Made in Japan. AND $10 EACH! The voltage is low and I do not have any idea of what speed can be obtained. I am using DSP drivers and Meanwell 24V power supplies (one each). I think it may work!!!  I have a couple extra power supplies if someone wants buy them.
  • I have used MACH3 and UCCNC systems before but not on this one. MACH3, although ubiquitous, is a bit of a dinosaur itself. Requiring a PC, it interfaces over a data connection with all the overhead and disruptions of Windows software. It tries to be everything to everyone and you know what that yields. The UCCNC I currently use on an old SEIKO robot to cut holes in enclosures at work. This system uses an internet connection for data with some local smarts. As an XY router it has been working fine. For this conversion I will use a Chinesium self contained specific designed Lathe Controller. At about $600 it is competitive with the other solutions but  it is built to know how to handle a lathe. Has a built in display and all the other controls. It is not small and I will need top bump out the control panel a couple inches to accommodate it. This uses a standard FANUC post.
  • For now I am keeping my spindle control board and the existing power supply. At some point I will investigate interfacing the speed to the controller. (What out for those three 10F caps, they will damage you or your boards and hold a charge for at least 30 minutes. I found out by experience!)
  • I am redoing my tool changer control with a custom magnetic encoder disk. This disk will have 6 positions and a #1 reference. The lathe controller can select any tool by number. Using an Arduino for control and will display on the control panel the selected tool position.

That's were I am.

Another Compact 5 CNC Upgrade

gsnalven@...
 

Like everybody else I am upgrading my Compact 5. As an engineer in the 80s I am completely comfortable with the electronics and have done some repairs despite the lack of decent schematics. My machine spent a lot of time in a school but not a lot of time cutting metal. It was dirty when I got it and I did about a 50% disassembly to clean it. It was loaded with chips, mostly of the same type. The Z axis was way loose and this turned out to be just a ball screw nut needing re-tightening. What other little lathe is going to give you ball screws, hardened bed and a tool changer?

Mine works fine but being such an old example it needs updating. Some of my limitations are:
  • The lack of a good PC interface (for CAD)
  • Poor linear and angular 2 axis interpolation
  • Limited program lines (Cad systems spit out endless code!)
What I will do:
  • Replace steppers with more modern examples. I am going to try these https://www.applied-motion.com/products/stepper-motors/4023-820. These are round Nema 23s a little bit shorter but I think will work. 200SRR, Bipolar 75 oz, 1.3V 2.8A. Made in Japan. AND $10 EACH! The voltage is low and I do not have any idea of what speed can be obtained. I am using DSP drivers and Meanwell 24V power supplies (one each). I think it may work!!!  I have a couple extra power supplies if someone wants buy them.
  • I have used MACH3 and UCCNC systems before but not on this one. MACH3, although ubiquitous, is a bit of a dinosaur itself. Requiring a PC, it interfaces over a data connection with all the overhead and disruptions of Windows software. It tries to be everything to everyone and you know what that yields. The UCCNC I currently use on an old SEIKO robot to cut holes in enclosures at work. This system uses an internet connection for data with some local smarts. As an XY router it has been working fine. For this conversion I will use a Chinesium self contained specific designed Lathe Controller. At about $600 it is competitive with the other solutions but  it is built to know how to handle a lathe. Has a built in display and all the other controls. It is not small and I will need top bump out the control panel a couple inches to accommodate it. This uses a standard FANUC post.
  • For now I am keeping my spindle control board and the existing power supply. At some point I will investigate interfacing the speed to the controller. (What out for those three 10F caps, they will damage you or your boards and hold a charge for at least 30 minutes. I found out by experience!)
  • I am redoing my tool changer control with a custom magnetic encoder disk. This disk will have 6 positions and a #1 reference. The lathe controller can select any tool by number. Using an Arduino for control and will display on the control panel the selected tool position.

That's were I am.

Re: Compact 5 CNC and Fusion 360 #a6a112001

cjlear
 

On 15/11/2019 8:06 pm, markus.almroth@... wrote:
Really? When I tested (just a facing operation), there were A LOT of G-codes that does'nt even exist in the Emco, and a few that had the wrong values.

Also the output differs quite a lot from what MFI can read. Or do you use some other software to load the program to the lathe?

/m
Yes, really. Hobbyist version of F360, vanilla Ubuntu RTE, LinuxCNC.

You can see in the attached .NGC the commented out lines that caused errors. The search-and-replace mainly related to feeds, which had the right gcodes but the wrong values.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't.


Charlie

Re: Compact 5 CNC and Fusion 360 #a6a112001

marty_in_mesa
 

Dave,
I did do a retrofit. Unfortunately by the time my labor is involved, it became what I thought was cost prohibitive and difficult for me to support "long" distance. So I decided not to pursue it unfortunately.
I like to be able to help a user and I can only do that locally.

Marty

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 7:35 PM David Rabenius via Groups.Io <swedeson2002=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
     How true!, main problem is most of us don't know electronics well enough to pick & choose components. Some are best buying a converted ready to run retrofitted machine. There are many variables in choosing what works best with what. I have spoken with the forum owner as he has done several Centroid retrofits for clients with good results. Guys tend to overdo the Stepper motor size without realizing that they could do damage if they crash the machine. The factory quasi-steppers of the machines only had less than 80 oz. inch motors, don't know about the PC50 & 55 machines.
Many people buy these machines incomplete and don't realize it. They see them on ebay and think cheapest is best. They get frustrated and with all the required items to get the machines back to factory spec. Some of these are pushing over 30  years old and finding factory parts can be a challenge as EMCO doesn't support these machines anymore. If they did the prices for the controllers would be out of this world. The last price I heard from EMCO on the quasi-steppers was $ 450 per axis!! The later RS series cards were over $ 1,500.!!  One could almost cover the entire cost of doing a Centroid retrofit.
     The machines are solid enough to make it worth retrofitting. I suggested that the forum owner come up with a turn key retrofit with step by step instructions & components as there are literally thousands of these machines world wide. They all have the same basic frames, just things like spindle motors would be the difference.

On Friday, November 15, 2019, 05:35:29 PM EST, Roderick Mellott <rodm717@...> wrote:


Its admirable and inspiring what some of you guys have done over the years with original/stock machines.
 But, my advise to new owners would be to update and upgrade your controller and software. Time is money. How much is your time worth? $1000.00 adds up quickly.
 You will save a lot of time and money updating and upgrading, particularly if you want to make parts and/or money soon. New controller and software is less of a learning curve for new owners and a larger community of help and support. And it lends itself to any other current cnc machine. Fusion has free post code for a variety of makes and models of any cnc machine and Mach 3/4.
 My 2 cents. Pokeys or Centroid FTW.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:25 PM arjan.dijk <arjan.dijk@...> wrote:
Yes, 

The Fanuc post is far from what you need. It has different ways of cancelling tool offset (T100 istead of G28). In Fanuc you can call G54 as much as you want, not in EMCO, Max spindlespeed for Constant surface feed is different, so you need a lot of hand editing to make it work and you have to do that every time you make a program. As good technicians tend to be lazy, you all should be careful about your precious time and hand edit code with the risk of messing u a piece of a machine by forgetting a line. Follow the thread in the previous link

Arjan

Op vr 15 nov. 2019 om 10:06 schreef <markus.almroth@...>:
Really? When I tested (just a facing operation), there were A LOT of G-codes that does'nt even exist in the Emco, and a few that had the wrong values.

Also the output differs quite a lot from what MFI can read. Or do you use some other software to load the program to the lathe?

/m

November 14, 2019 10:41 PM, "cjlear" <tools@...> wrote:

> Markus,
>
> I use the generic Fanuc turning post-processor, and manually edit the
> gcode file. There's only a small number of lines that need commenting
> out or a search-and-replace done. I was going to write a script to do it
> for me, but I'm lazy and a text editor works.
>
> Regards
>
> Charlie
>
>