Date   
Re: EMCO6p home switches

rcflyer
 

Compact 6 has no home switches. You jog to align the arrows on the turret motor cover to the marks on the back of the enclosure, then home. The axes move to find the target on the ballscrew pulley and this is home.

What was done on a retrofit is anyone's guess.

Manuals and schematics should be available on the web, but I never found a part list specifically for C6 and referred to the 120 parts list. Other than lacking central way lubrication and homing prox, they are the same.


On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 3:55 PM arjan.dijk <arjan.dijk@...> wrote:
Im got a very early converted Mach3 EMCO6p and I'm looking if it has any home/limit switches? Where should I look? It does not home, or give a signal passing a certain point, so it must bebe connected or set when it is there.

So where to find the home switches? If they are not there, am I really supposed to home on a piece?

Can I find some technical drawings about this machine?

EMCO6p home switches

arjan.dijk
 

Im got a very early converted Mach3 EMCO6p and I'm looking if it has any home/limit switches? Where should I look? It does not home, or give a signal passing a certain point, so it must bebe connected or set when it is there.

So where to find the home switches? If they are not there, am I really supposed to home on a piece?

Can I find some technical drawings about this machine?

Re: Emco Compact 5 CNC options

David Rabenius
 


 I had to actually shrink the length down to fit the 7.500 X axis travel of the PCmill50.  (counting the 3\8 endmill)
 I did the finger holes first then screwed down the plate with plugs matched to the finger holes on a base plate, worked really well but SLOW. The flip side was done the same way for doing the chamfer. I used the 2 outer finger holes with plugs to position then clamped the outside edge. Removed the outer plugs  then then chamfered the finger holes. I reclamped the finger hole plugs and chamfered the outer profile. The finger plugs had a tight fit with a chamfer to lock the part to my fixture. Another job that required some thought.
  I did another job on the PC50 mill with the headstock at a 90 degree Horizontal angle for threading a Aluminum tube. I called EMCO and asked them how to do it. They had no clue and a local friend of mine drew up the thread as a helix on its side and made the G-code file using Maxnc software. It took a little tweeking but worked perfectly. The G-code files were huge, like 7000 lines of code which was about 10 minutes of machining time. It was VERY impressive watching the X,Y, & Z numbers fly on the monitor as the mill cut the 50mm X 1.50 metric thread. 

Dave


On Wednesday, November 27, 2019, 02:25:40 AM EST, David Rabenius via Groups.Io <swedeson2002@...> wrote:


Hi;
  Heres a link to the knuckle opener. He has sold hundreds of these, he uses a Fadal full size CNC mill.





On Wednesday, November 27, 2019, 02:20:43 AM EST, David Rabenius via Groups.Io <swedeson2002@...> wrote:


Hi All:
  I forgot to mention that if you are making small batches of parts for sale then the retrofit cost is of little concern. I bought a PC5 Lathe and before I even ran it for the first time had a local guy contact me about turning some Lexan rod for a Army project. I ran like 3 parts then he came back and told me to run the rest of the material, like 8 parts total. He told me that he couldn't get any machine shop in the area to do it and he basically paid for the cost of the machine which I thought was pretty cool.  
  When I started it was really convenient to just go and make my own parts as needed, always thinking of what to make next. I was at my local restaurant and one of the owners approached me about a project that he wanted to do. It was a Brass knuckle bottle opener. I asked him if he had a drawing of what he wanted, he said no. I told him to use the TV on the Bar to do a Google search for Brass Knuckles. He did so and found a style that he liked. I sketched  the opener he had on one end of the Brass Knuckle. Then asked if it was what he wanted. I went home and did the CAD drawing & CAM that evening. Next afternoon I ran one on my PCmill50 and he was floored when I brought one to him that evening. Look under Drinique drink wear, knucle opener.
  That's how I started machining, local machine shops weren't interested in doing batches of parts, their attitudes left a  lot to be desired. I had one part that was for 100 pcs @ $35.00 each. I figured that I could just buy a Lathe & mill for that and these EMCO CNC machines were perfect. One of the Machine shops told me to bring in the parts that I had made and when they saw it offered me a job on the spot.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 09:56:38 AM EST, Tony Schalburg via Groups.Io <tonyschalburg@...> wrote:


Hi
Im the happy owner of 4 emco machines. 
One et120p, 
One compact 6
One vmc100 
Those 3 with original tm02 controller. 
The last one is a vmc100 im in proces of retrofitting. 
Its a huge proces to retrofit a mill, and expencive, cuz i want to keep the original berger lahr steppers and the Siemens dc motor. No compromices here. Want to run the vmc100 with Mach3, as close to the original setup as possible. 
The ATC, i had a plugin made, cost me 200$.
Stepper drivers, i use original from berger lahr, but updated, cost 600$ each. Siemens dc motor, im using a parker 506 dc driver, cost 400£.
Pwm,relay board and BOB, i got from cnc4pc, all for about 400$.
I have been working on the retrofit for more than a year now, but Will soon complete it. 
What i want to say, about retrofitting those Nice old machines, is, if you want to do it, do it prober, so you have a machine that can and Will work for many years to come. 
Yes you can do a cheap retrofit, but then you get a slow machine, that can do the job, but the emco machines Are Nice High pression machines, that deserves a prober setup. 
Tony

Re: Emco Compact 5 CNC options

David Rabenius
 

On Wednesday, November 27, 2019, 02:20:43 AM EST, David Rabenius via Groups.Io <swedeson2002@...> wrote:


Hi All:
  I forgot to mention that if you are making small batches of parts for sale then the retrofit cost is of little concern. I bought a PC5 Lathe and before I even ran it for the first time had a local guy contact me about turning some Lexan rod for a Army project. I ran like 3 parts then he came back and told me to run the rest of the material, like 8 parts total. He told me that he couldn't get any machine shop in the area to do it and he basically paid for the cost of the machine which I thought was pretty cool.  
  When I started it was really convenient to just go and make my own parts as needed, always thinking of what to make next. I was at my local restaurant and one of the owners approached me about a project that he wanted to do. It was a Brass knuckle bottle opener. I asked him if he had a drawing of what he wanted, he said no. I told him to use the TV on the Bar to do a Google search for Brass Knuckles. He did so and found a style that he liked. I sketched  the opener he had on one end of the Brass Knuckle. Then asked if it was what he wanted. I went home and did the CAD drawing & CAM that evening. Next afternoon I ran one on my PCmill50 and he was floored when I brought one to him that evening. Look under Drinique drink wear, knucle opener.
  That's how I started machining, local machine shops weren't interested in doing batches of parts, their attitudes left a  lot to be desired. I had one part that was for 100 pcs @ $35.00 each. I figured that I could just buy a Lathe & mill for that and these EMCO CNC machines were perfect. One of the Machine shops told me to bring in the parts that I had made and when they saw it offered me a job on the spot.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 09:56:38 AM EST, Tony Schalburg via Groups.Io <tonyschalburg@...> wrote:


Hi
Im the happy owner of 4 emco machines. 
One et120p, 
One compact 6
One vmc100 
Those 3 with original tm02 controller. 
The last one is a vmc100 im in proces of retrofitting. 
Its a huge proces to retrofit a mill, and expencive, cuz i want to keep the original berger lahr steppers and the Siemens dc motor. No compromices here. Want to run the vmc100 with Mach3, as close to the original setup as possible. 
The ATC, i had a plugin made, cost me 200$.
Stepper drivers, i use original from berger lahr, but updated, cost 600$ each. Siemens dc motor, im using a parker 506 dc driver, cost 400£.
Pwm,relay board and BOB, i got from cnc4pc, all for about 400$.
I have been working on the retrofit for more than a year now, but Will soon complete it. 
What i want to say, about retrofitting those Nice old machines, is, if you want to do it, do it prober, so you have a machine that can and Will work for many years to come. 
Yes you can do a cheap retrofit, but then you get a slow machine, that can do the job, but the emco machines Are Nice High pression machines, that deserves a prober setup. 
Tony

Re: Emco Compact 5 CNC options

David Rabenius
 

Hi All:
  I forgot to mention that if you are making small batches of parts for sale then the retrofit cost is of little concern. I bought a PC5 Lathe and before I even ran it for the first time had a local guy contact me about turning some Lexan rod for a Army project. I ran like 3 parts then he came back and told me to run the rest of the material, like 8 parts total. He told me that he couldn't get any machine shop in the area to do it and he basically paid for the cost of the machine which I thought was pretty cool.  
  When I started it was really convenient to just go and make my own parts as needed, always thinking of what to make next. I was at my local restaurant and one of the owners approached me about a project that he wanted to do. It was a Brass knuckle bottle opener. I asked him if he had a drawing of what he wanted, he said no. I told him to use the TV on the Bar to do a Google search for Brass Knuckles. He did so and found a style that he liked. I sketched  the opener he had on one end of the Brass Knuckle. Then asked if it was what he wanted. I went home and did the CAD drawing & CAM that evening. Next afternoon I ran one on my PCmill50 and he was floored when I brought one to him that evening. Look under Drinique drink wear, knucle opener.
  That's how I started machining, local machine shops weren't interested in doing batches of parts, their attitudes left a  lot to be desired. I had one part that was for 100 pcs @ $35.00 each. I figured that I could just buy a Lathe & mill for that and these EMCO CNC machines were perfect. One of the Machine shops told me to bring in the parts that I had made and when they saw it offered me a job on the spot.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 09:56:38 AM EST, Tony Schalburg via Groups.Io <tonyschalburg@...> wrote:


Hi
Im the happy owner of 4 emco machines. 
One et120p, 
One compact 6
One vmc100 
Those 3 with original tm02 controller. 
The last one is a vmc100 im in proces of retrofitting. 
Its a huge proces to retrofit a mill, and expencive, cuz i want to keep the original berger lahr steppers and the Siemens dc motor. No compromices here. Want to run the vmc100 with Mach3, as close to the original setup as possible. 
The ATC, i had a plugin made, cost me 200$.
Stepper drivers, i use original from berger lahr, but updated, cost 600$ each. Siemens dc motor, im using a parker 506 dc driver, cost 400£.
Pwm,relay board and BOB, i got from cnc4pc, all for about 400$.
I have been working on the retrofit for more than a year now, but Will soon complete it. 
What i want to say, about retrofitting those Nice old machines, is, if you want to do it, do it prober, so you have a machine that can and Will work for many years to come. 
Yes you can do a cheap retrofit, but then you get a slow machine, that can do the job, but the emco machines Are Nice High pression machines, that deserves a prober setup. 
Tony

Re: Emco Compact 5 CNC options

Tony Schalburg
 

Hi
Im the happy owner of 4 emco machines. 
One et120p, 
One compact 6
One vmc100 
Those 3 with original tm02 controller. 
The last one is a vmc100 im in proces of retrofitting. 
Its a huge proces to retrofit a mill, and expencive, cuz i want to keep the original berger lahr steppers and the Siemens dc motor. No compromices here. Want to run the vmc100 with Mach3, as close to the original setup as possible. 
The ATC, i had a plugin made, cost me 200$.
Stepper drivers, i use original from berger lahr, but updated, cost 600$ each. Siemens dc motor, im using a parker 506 dc driver, cost 400£.
Pwm,relay board and BOB, i got from cnc4pc, all for about 400$.
I have been working on the retrofit for more than a year now, but Will soon complete it. 
What i want to say, about retrofitting those Nice old machines, is, if you want to do it, do it prober, so you have a machine that can and Will work for many years to come. 
Yes you can do a cheap retrofit, but then you get a slow machine, that can do the job, but the emco machines Are Nice High pression machines, that deserves a prober setup. 
Tony

Re: Emco Compact 5 CNC options

David Rabenius
 

OK:
  Here goes. Your budget is tight, $771.00 but you probably wont be using Centroid Acorn. There are many options for doing retrofits. You could save a few bucks and use the factory power supply. The spindle motor controller could also be used if my memory serves me correct. I know the later PCturn50 & 55 machines better.
   Power supplies are pretty cheap, $50.00 - $100. VFD's are also $100 - $140.00. Steppers can be from $ 30.00 to $200. you don't need huge 280oz. ones as the factory ones were about 60 oz inch. Too powerful steppers could easily damage the machine. BOB boards can be had for $150.  & up. Find someone who has done a complete retrofit and if you can see it run, they would be the best bet.
 I bought a CNC5 in 1996 and made many parts on it, it was my first CNC Lathe. programming it was slow but tolerable. I saved my programs on the little Phillips Digital tapes that are like finding hens teeth. Your machine may have the RS232 pigtail on the back, if so then you can use a common old school printer cable and upload the programs from a PC. EMCO had some software that could make your drawings and it would generate the code. The software was DOS based and was fast & easy to learn. I bought a PC5 in 2001 which used that software.
   The lathe you have uses G codes, many common ones found in industry. Like most CNC machines EMCO used several canned cycles, most CNC machines use certain G-code numbers that are "open" to the manufacturer to make custom for their application.
 If your machine is working then why not learn it the way it was?? I know of several people who took perfectly good running machines and made them non-running ones. Did you get the manuals with your machine?? If not they are available online, the software is also available online. The manual explains the setup of the software to the machine.

Dave
 



On Monday, November 25, 2019, 01:49:02 PM EST, marc mcphee via Groups.Io <sparkez01@...> wrote:


Hello all.

I’m new to this so please be gentle, I have an Emco Compact 5 CNC with a 6 tool turret(the yellow one). It is decent condition and I would like to retrofit it to be able write programs in G-code format. I would like to teach my son my trade as a CNC machinist to help him pay his way through university or even to open his eyes to the world of manufacturing.

So I have been online looking at how the set up goes together from the BOB to the required motors to a VDF to control the spindle etc etc. I have the basics together but I I’m still learning what goes with what.

So here goes, I’m at best a bit of an idiot so help with how you have done with your set up or what you used with what would be a lot of help.

I was told to stay away from BOBs tb6560 when retrofitting a lathe due to not being that user friendly ?? Is Centroid acorn a better alternative or will a simple BOB effectively achieve the same results ?? do I need a 24vdc power box l to control the bob and motors and another to control the spindle using  a VFD.

I need help, guidance and I was hoping to maintain a budget between £400-£600.

Thank you all in advance for any help

Emco Compact 5 CNC options

marc mcphee
 

Hello all.

I’m new to this so please be gentle, I have an Emco Compact 5 CNC with a 6 tool turret(the yellow one). It is decent condition and I would like to retrofit it to be able write programs in G-code format. I would like to teach my son my trade as a CNC machinist to help him pay his way through university or even to open his eyes to the world of manufacturing.

So I have been online looking at how the set up goes together from the BOB to the required motors to a VDF to control the spindle etc etc. I have the basics together but I I’m still learning what goes with what.

So here goes, I’m at best a bit of an idiot so help with how you have done with your set up or what you used with what would be a lot of help.

I was told to stay away from BOBs tb6560 when retrofitting a lathe due to not being that user friendly ?? Is Centroid acorn a better alternative or will a simple BOB effectively achieve the same results ?? do I need a 24vdc power box l to control the bob and motors and another to control the spindle using  a VFD.

I need help, guidance and I was hoping to maintain a budget between £400-£600.

Thank you all in advance for any help

Re: WTB: AC88 Axis Controller

@Travis_S
 

Nick,

Thank you for your offer -> I would be interested in looking at AC95 boards as well.

Would you mind emailing me what you are looking for for them (It appears your profile doesn't allow me to email you)?

Thanks,

Travis

Re: RS-232 and RS-465 Emco Keyboard X9A000, protocol reverse engineering

@Travis_S
 

Arjan,

I would like to say there is progress, as I am steadily working on it, but progress is still slow. I did learn that the board has two processors on it, an 80c196 and an 8088-2 (that part isnt terribly hard to figure out). What is new though, is that it appears to use the 80c196 for communication ( the ISA card, Axis controller and optional external keyboard all have one). The 8088-2 runs the actual axis positioning, and the 80c196 drip feeds it commands. The volume of comm traffic on the RS-485 link between the PC and Axis controller (AC) is downright bewildering- the below program:

G90
M1
G54
M06 T02 G43 H02
X0
X1
M30

Yields approximately 500 lines of communication on the PC<-->AC RS485 link . There is also a data link between the 80C196 and 8088, and that yields a much more logical 100ish lines. I have been trying to decode this traffic, and have had some success -I believe I have identified the startup sequence the control sends to the machine when WinNC first starts for example. What I dont know yet (but want to) is how that sequence is shaped by the MSD file and others.

Additionally, I realized the machine uses a heartbeat signal ( a pattern of 00's) every 58-59 seconds when idle. This is not logged with the debug options in WinConfig. I found this using a cheap Ebay ($8) USB to RS485 converter-hooked up in parallel to the pins on the comm cable between PC and AC, it has no trouble logging traffic on the RS485 line.

Happy to share files if there is interest.

Thanks,
Travis

Re: WTB: AC88 Axis Controller

Nick Stewart
 

Travis,
I know you are looking for the AC88 boards, I have a set of AC95 boards if that would help at all, seems to be step between the PC 50 and 55, basically the Gen 0 of the PC 55.

WTB: AC88 Axis Controller

@Travis_S
 

Wanted to buy inexpensively, PN Y4A 015 000 or Y4A 012 000 axis controller for AC88 vintage.PC Mill or PC Turn. I would prefer a Mill control, but beggars cant be choosers. 

My intent is to pull the firmware from the EEPROMs on the board and reverse engineer. I will post here as well.


Thanks,

Travis

PS- The reverse engineering of the RS485 communication is proceeding, albeit slower than I had hoped (decoding Hexadecimal is a new endeavor for me). Interestingly, it seems that the control uses the 80C196 microcontroller (decent, 16 bit micro) as the communication link between PC (ISA card also has an 80C196) and machine. The 8088-2 (venerable, but stone age ancient) on the board serves as the actual machine controller.  The architechure of this control is very elegant- a significant amount of engineering development went into it.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my

James Spence
 

Just scanned over this post  after being pinged all day,
In all honesty they are have there good points and bad there is no wrong way to do it, it's all down to budget I have seen someone to a retrofit with a low end industrial control and it's nice unit  and that's what I would use but some people want to use a pc for there hobby work to have there cad system on the same pc etc  and have abit of a play if your serious about making production parts maybe not the best machine but with a industrial control a very cheep production machine in a small foot print, 
Can we please drop this? 
And maybe  create a new thread for acorn controls ? Save the confusion of users of the group 
Regards james


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 14:05, gsnalven@...
<gsnalven@...> wrote:
I never said that. And I feel more like the anti-Christ. But come to think of it, Windows cannot work and I know what I am talking about. Since there is so much hostility here to those who have different ideas, I will refrain from future posts.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

I never said that. And I feel more like the anti-Christ. But come to think of it, Windows cannot work and I know what I am talking about. Since there is so much hostility here to those who have different ideas, I will refrain from future posts.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

arjan.dijk
 

Sorry @Gsnalven, but this group is for people who want to figure out how to get things working. You can share what you were not able to achieve and what your results are and why you think it might nog be possible to get it working, but  "Windows will not do the job, I know what I'm talking about" sounds more like a God complex. I'm pretty sure that others might have achieved what you are strugg;ling with.

Arjan

Op di 19 nov. 2019 om 04:40 schreef <gsnalven@...>:

Nothing against Mach3 and for non-complex shapes I am sure it works fine. The problem is cuts that require a real-time aspect such as threading or multiple servo axis motion. If it was implemented on a dedicated controller it would be a first choice. Running on Windows it will not do the job. I know you know what I am talking about. Sorry all.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

Nothing against Mach3 and for non-complex shapes I am sure it works fine. The problem is cuts that require a real-time aspect such as threading or multiple servo axis motion. If it was implemented on a dedicated controller it would be a first choice. Running on Windows it will not do the job. I know you know what I am talking about. Sorry all.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

For the believers, the capabilities of Beaglebone,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0ZlWU6wsc

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

Art Fenerty <fenerty@...>
 

Thank you Marty. I think credit goes to a great many for that though. I was very lucky in figuring out how to 
make windows operate in a mode that emulates real-time in the way it did. My monitor displayed the 
blue screen of death for months till that was figured out. That secret never got out and it allowed Mach3
to reign supreme for a long time. 
   I have an awful lot of gratitude to the folks at NIST for LinuxCNC and how much I learned from their
code, primarily their planner, which Mach3 uses as its base code, though heavily modified for Windows.
I still use Mach3 on my Emco PC5 lathe and a CNC router. I use another controller I wrote for the 
cnc lasers I play with now, but Mach3 will always be with me.  

     I dont visit here often, but I watch with interest how it goes. My PC5 works quite well with 
Mach3, I use a pendent most of the time so Mach3 serves more as a DRO than anything else
as I pendent my way through the small jobs I do these days.

  I see a lot of question as to what one should use these days to convert an Emco, I tend
to think those single box fanuk emulators would be my choice were I to do do conversion
today, Some of the people who's opinions I most respect in that area have tried it and tell
me they are great. My emco was, I think ,the first conversion to Mach.. wasnt hard.. but
times have changed and I think the single box solutions look pretty good. As a hacker, I'll
stick with Mach3, but I watch with interest. :)

Art

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

gsnalven@...
 

Charlie, some of us have knowledge.

Re: Why I will not use Acorn to upgrade my Compact 5

marty_in_mesa
 

Art you did a remarkably outstanding job with Mach3. You are primarily the reason why DIY CNC is where it is today. Thank you for that.

Regards,
Marty

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019, 6:55 PM Art Fenerty <fenerty@...> wrote:
  Depends on the definition of real-time. Mach3 did do up to 100,000 pulses per second while running windows xp and Win7 when they were 32 bit. It would still run 
today in Win10 if microsoft hadnt encrypted the memory locations I used to facilatate it. I used to reliably get 10us call backs even while running many threads and programs. 
 Its as close as Ive seen to realtime from Windows. 

Art