Date   

Re: 3.5 inch floppy drive controller

Keith
 

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your suggestion.
I suspect the floppy is used in a standard way driven by the interface attached to it.
As I have never seen it running I cannot record anything on the discs.
Alarm 10 comes up most of the time "Disk Write Protected".
There is no 5 volt supply to the FDD or to any of the chips on the interface so I suspect that this is the reason it does not work.
I have been trying to find a schematic so that I can investigate properly but no luck up to now.
It could well be that the CPU board sends signals to turn the 5V rail on.
When I can have another go at it I will get my oscilloscope on various pins to see what happens.
I have tried once but it didn't tell me a lot.
Next time I will use a dual trace scope and see if that helps.

Keith


Re: 3.5 inch floppy drive controller

Dave Leer
 

Keith, here is another thought about the 3 1/2 floppy. In the early years of the PC, HP computers used a 710 floppy. I don't remember
the details, (late 80s, early 90s) but if you get that figured out, it can be read on a pc

On 7/28/2020 11:48 AM, Keith via groups.io wrote:
Hi Dieter,
My machine was built in 1987 and is mainly grey in colour.
If you look on YouTube you can find one very similar to mine with a FDD instead of a Tape.
The FDD drive interface is connected to the main CPU board in the same way as the tape drive is except that the 5 volt line is not used.
I understand that the 5 volts are provided by the interface from the 16 volt rail.
The FDD is the type you find in older PC's and is made by TEAC (FD-235HF) Part No 19307344-29.
The interface board is marked 2665 WA85094.
Ther is an Emco EPROM on the interface which is marked P2831155 2.32
The interface board has two connections to the FDD one is a short standard FDD cable and the other is the 5 Volt supply.
Following advice found on various forums I have tried both 720 and 1.44 floppy disks.
I did find some information on one site that said that the disks are only readable by the lathe and cannot be read by another FDD in a PC.
I have tried all the Instructions for the tape and I only get alarms. A10, A5 and A9.
A10 is the common one (write protect) It comes up if you have the disk write protected or not.
My current thinking is that the interface board is faulty.
There is no 5 Volt supply at any of the chips or the FDD.
I have tried everywhere I can think of to find a schematic but no luck up to now.
The rest of the lathe is working OK now so I will keep trying to find further information.

Keith


Re: 3.5 inch floppy drive controller

Keith
 

Hi Dieter,
My machine was built in 1987 and is mainly grey in colour.
If you look on YouTube you can find one very similar to mine with a FDD instead of a Tape.
The FDD drive interface is connected to the main CPU board in the same way as the tape drive is except that the 5 volt line is not used.
I understand that the 5 volts are provided by the interface from the 16 volt rail.
The FDD is the type you find in older PC's and is made by TEAC (FD-235HF) Part No 19307344-29.
The interface board is marked 2665 WA85094.
Ther is an Emco EPROM on the interface which is marked P2831155 2.32
The interface board has two connections to the FDD one is a short standard FDD cable and the other is the 5 Volt supply.
Following advice found on various forums I have tried both 720 and 1.44 floppy disks.
I did find some information on one site that said that the disks are only readable by the lathe and cannot be read by another FDD in a PC.
I have tried all the Instructions for the tape and I only get alarms. A10, A5 and A9.
A10 is the common one (write protect) It comes up if you have the disk write protected or not.
My current thinking is that the interface board is faulty.
There is no 5 Volt supply at any of the chips or the FDD.
I have tried everywhere I can think of to find a schematic but no luck up to now.
The rest of the lathe is working OK now so I will keep trying to find further information.

Keith


Re: SOLVED: Compact 5 CNC Feed Speed slow in Hand mode

Dieter
 

Hi,

- The drives/axis still have a bit of a pulse that I didn't notice while running in CNC mode

All C5 makes the same noise in MAN mode when moving fast, the CPU is to slow to keep up
and the small delay when computing the steps creates this awful noise.(it's interrupt driven )
The original stepper motors have a very low inertia so they have no problems with loosing steps.
Reduce gradually the speed with the pot and the noise disappears.

I installed new motors ( in fact old hybrid steppers rewired and new rotors to change them into reluctance steppers)
to have 200 steps/rev, but they cannot tolerate the delays and loose steps, so I needed to reduce the max. velocity with the trimmer.

Dieter


Of course you need to lubricate the spindles and the slides immediately, don't use the C5 anymore before that done..
I didn't care and had after problems with the X-axis.

Dieter
had

Dieter


Re: 3.5 inch floppy drive controller

Dieter
 

Hi Keith,

I noticed only a few months ago on a french site that a floppy drive existed for the C5.

Have you tried with different floppy types ( 720 kB and 1.44 MB or commodore compatible)?
Perhaps they need to be formatted/erased with the ERASE procedure described in the tape instructions.

I haven't found any information about floppy drives on C5.
I'm really interested about the floppy controller, so could you show some pictures about the circuits and
look for the brand, type and serial number on the floppy drive, perhaps we can find the floppy type to be used.

Dieter


Re: EMCO Compact 5 CNC

Dieter
 

Hi Geoff,

Look here for the diagram:

https://groups.io/g/Emco-CNC-Users/files/Emco5cnc%20Original%20circuits

(in "files" you find nearly everything)

Dieter


Re: EMCO Compact 5 CNC

Keith
 

Hi Geoff,
Have you tried the motor brushes to see if they are worn or sticking.
Brush problems are quite common in permanent magnet motors.
The unworn brush length is mentioned in the maintenance manual in the files section.

Keith.

Sent by high speed wet string!!


EMCO Compact 5 CNC

Geoff Moores
 

Hi,
I’m looking for the circuit diagram for the spindle motor drive board. Having intermittent problems with motor whereby occasionally it makes a strange twanging noise with a glitch in high current demand. 
Any help very much appreciated.
Geoff


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

rcflyer
 


This link is for the Emcotronic control, but has installation info for Winnc.


On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 5:14 PM David Rabenius <taborboy78@...> wrote:
    The ACC was offered from EMCO for a cost of over $ 4,000.00. I bought a 55 mill that had this conversion. The inside of the mills cabinet had basically the interface card, mini ITX computer. This mini computer had a ethernet jack which required you to run the controller via Ethernet cable with another PC. The PC had the actual Fanuc, Heidenhain, Siemens, EMCOTronic program. 
    The later Concept machines basically had the same internal setup as the ACC.


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

David Rabenius
 

    The ACC was offered from EMCO for a cost of over $ 4,000.00. I bought a 55 mill that had this conversion. The inside of the mills cabinet had basically the interface card, mini ITX computer. This mini computer had a ethernet jack which required you to run the controller via Ethernet cable with another PC. The PC had the actual Fanuc, Heidenhain, Siemens, EMCOTronic program. 
    The later Concept machines basically had the same internal setup as the ACC.


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

arjan.dijk
 

Hi Tim,

If I understand correctly, the ISA board for RS422/485 requires a hardware IRQ address. Win 98 supports that, XP doesnt. There was a not so cheap possibility to update to a LAN controlled interface card (ACC) but these are very rare for the PC turn/mill 55, this could enable more modern windows. For both the turn 55 as the mill 55 there is little argument to retrofit if the old control is working. For the Turn there is no gain in functionality, for the mill you could argue that it would enable you to use a probe/4th axis etc, but outside that, the Wincam/fanuc/siemens/heidenhain control are plenty enough to work with.

Arjan

Op za 25 jul. 2020 om 19:28 schreef TimG <tim@...>:

Hi David, My PCT55 has the AC95 controller with RS422, running Win95.


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

TimG
 

Hi David, My PCT55 has the AC95 controller with RS422, running Win95.


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

David Rabenius
 

From my experiences and having a friend who was a EMCO Maier educational dealer the early 55 series still used a Win98 system. These have the RS485 cards. They changed to the RS422 cards after and used a WinXP operating system. 


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

TimG
 

I was wrong, apologies, I've just fired up the PC, it's Win98 (all XP reference were erroneous).
Now powering up the PCT55 to see if it's fixed, hoping not to see any smoke.


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

tim.gowing@...
 

Arjan,
Thank you for highlighting that the WinNC needs Win98.
I'm pretty sure that the PC for the PCT55 is running XP and WinCAM, so that set-up is newer than the available WinNC installation file that requires Win98 and no newer.
It may sound crazy but I would like to be able to build a windows system with WinNC from scratch so that it should not be the PC that lets me down; on the other hand if an Emco board were to fail then I'm at the mercy of ebay prices to fix the PCT55.
I had been intent on retro-fitting new hardware to run Linuxcnc but since following the topics on this fantastic forum I've been persuaded to persevere with fixing the Emco/Fanuc stuff.

Does anyone use the newer WinNC document with the older Win98 version of WinNC?  Is the information pretty much applicable?


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

arjan.dijk
 

As said. Winxp will not work. You need windows 98

Op za 25 jul. 2020 00:41 schreef tim.gowing via groups.io <tim.gowing=btinternet.com@groups.io>:

Hi J G,
I found a melted/burnt Tantalum capacitor on the small sub-board of the AC95 motion controller.  An electrical engineer colleague swapped out the burnt cap plus two similar caps and tested the small board, this I believe is the low voltage power circuits you referred to.
I haven't reassembled yet but fingers crossed.
Now sorting out another IDE drive to allow a new Win XP build.  I've downloaded the WinNC version for the AC95 from the files section and I now have the MSD file from Emco.
The manual I find on the www is https://www.emco-world.com/uploads/tx_commerce/Fan0TC_EN_H_01.pdf it appear a bit too modern, is there an older version to match the WinNC installation? 


Re: PC Turn 55 - Info for a newbie

tim.gowing@...
 

Hi J G,
I found a melted/burnt Tantalum capacitor on the small sub-board of the AC95 motion controller.  An electrical engineer colleague swapped out the burnt cap plus two similar caps and tested the small board, this I believe is the low voltage power circuits you referred to.
I haven't reassembled yet but fingers crossed.
Now sorting out another IDE drive to allow a new Win XP build.  I've downloaded the WinNC version for the AC95 from the files section and I now have the MSD file from Emco.
The manual I find on the www is https://www.emco-world.com/uploads/tx_commerce/Fan0TC_EN_H_01.pdf it appear a bit too modern, is there an older version to match the WinNC installation? 


Re: Emco PC Mill 55

arjan.dijk
 

I have the mill 55 now for a few years. Like the machine and the good build. The ball screws are small and you notice that when doing deep shoulder cuts in aluminum. It vibrates like hell. Doing small downcuts works much better. 

The flexibility of the controls is wonderful. I like Siemens 840 best. Wincam is best for toolpaths with a lot of datapoints.

You will always lack Z clearance, that's an issue. 

But all in all, a nice machine. You only have to be careful with the old W98 pc. I can not be upgraded to anything else then Isa slots on w98

Arjan

Op vr 24 jul. 2020 17:48 schreef f1pmiller via groups.io <f1pmiller=yahoo.com@groups.io>:

I have an F1P, Vmc100 and an F1 that's running on Welmill  ,  my F1P uses 110 voltage and the VMC100 on 220 single phase so they were available in single phase as well here in the states. The F1P and VMC100 have larger (12mm if i remember correctly) precision ground ball screws , larger spindle motors ,steppers etc. and can run production with no problem holding 2 tenths if all the stars are aligned and toes crossed...different animals that the F1, 50, 55 (not sure about the Concept as i've not been near one yet but from pics looks like its an F1 relative ) .The F1 based training machines have smaller "rolled" ball screws , smaller steppers, spindle motors etc. , that being said they will still cut steel reasonably well if you use correct feeds,speeds,work holding and tooling , i have cut 1/2" mild steel flat bar with Tialn coated 3/8ths end mills full depth with the F1 at a decent pace .The F1 with Welmill installed is about as precise in light stuff as the F1P/VMC100 machines when ball screw compensation is measured and entered into the program .Ball comp is important on the training based machines as the rolled screws can have a thou or three of backlash when they get old, i hav'nt used my standard control on the F1 for ages but i think i remember there being a way to program ball comp on there as well and maybe also with MFI. The 55 is a nice machine, a friend had one, if all is there and working in the control as has been said and i believe it also has an additional inch in Y travel as well ?.....really jealous of that , i cant tell you how many times that would have made my day a great deal easier.If anyone happens upon a working F1P with the M1 control ,or a Welmill control for the F1,  I had BobCad write a post processor for those a few years ago that works well with their Predator Editor through the Rs232 cable for the F1P and a file transfer for Welmill for the F1  and they should be available for download on their site. I don't recomend BobCad as a CAD program (unless you favor banging your head against the wall all day), i use Rhino for that, but the Cam side is not to bad and writes decent code for 2 and 3 axis stuff.

On Friday, July 24, 2020, 8:29:29 AM EDT, <anders.s.larsson@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thanks all for helping out, seems to be a great community around these machines! If anybody can point me to documentation that would be great. Especially size and weight.

For my other manual Emco machines I have easily found documentation, parts listings etc but so far no luck on this machine.

/anders 


Re: Emco PC Mill 55

f1pmiller
 

I have an F1P, Vmc100 and an F1 that's running on Welmill  ,  my F1P uses 110 voltage and the VMC100 on 220 single phase so they were available in single phase as well here in the states. The F1P and VMC100 have larger (12mm if i remember correctly) precision ground ball screws , larger spindle motors ,steppers etc. and can run production with no problem holding 2 tenths if all the stars are aligned and toes crossed...different animals that the F1, 50, 55 (not sure about the Concept as i've not been near one yet but from pics looks like its an F1 relative ) .The F1 based training machines have smaller "rolled" ball screws , smaller steppers, spindle motors etc. , that being said they will still cut steel reasonably well if you use correct feeds,speeds,work holding and tooling , i have cut 1/2" mild steel flat bar with Tialn coated 3/8ths end mills full depth with the F1 at a decent pace .The F1 with Welmill installed is about as precise in light stuff as the F1P/VMC100 machines when ball screw compensation is measured and entered into the program .Ball comp is important on the training based machines as the rolled screws can have a thou or three of backlash when they get old, i hav'nt used my standard control on the F1 for ages but i think i remember there being a way to program ball comp on there as well and maybe also with MFI. The 55 is a nice machine, a friend had one, if all is there and working in the control as has been said and i believe it also has an additional inch in Y travel as well ?.....really jealous of that , i cant tell you how many times that would have made my day a great deal easier.If anyone happens upon a working F1P with the M1 control ,or a Welmill control for the F1,  I had BobCad write a post processor for those a few years ago that works well with their Predator Editor through the Rs232 cable for the F1P and a file transfer for Welmill for the F1  and they should be available for download on their site. I don't recomend BobCad as a CAD program (unless you favor banging your head against the wall all day), i use Rhino for that, but the Cam side is not to bad and writes decent code for 2 and 3 axis stuff.

On Friday, July 24, 2020, 8:29:29 AM EDT, <anders.s.larsson@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thanks all for helping out, seems to be a great community around these machines! If anybody can point me to documentation that would be great. Especially size and weight.

For my other manual Emco machines I have easily found documentation, parts listings etc but so far no luck on this machine.

/anders 


Re: Emco PC Mill 55

anders.s.larsson@...
 

Hi,

Thanks all for helping out, seems to be a great community around these machines! If anybody can point me to documentation that would be great. Especially size and weight.

For my other manual Emco machines I have easily found documentation, parts listings etc but so far no luck on this machine.

/anders