Date   

Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
 

The Pacific Scientific motors around 200 in/oz on eBay can be found for $30 to $50
These are what I used on 2 of my conversions .
PS. I use the power supply that is already in the 5PC , it is about 50 volts and plenty of power.
The boards you take out will sell for enough on eBay to pay for about half of your conversion.
Ron

David Rabenius wrote:

Terry:
I would also replace the steppers as Ron did on his conversion. The EMCO steppers were specially made for EMCO, they are underpowered and just shy of impossible to get new. I called EMCO 5 years ago and they said that they would be $ 495.00 EACH and they didnt have any in stock.
Morer importantly is the EMCO steppers are 72 steps per revolution while a modern stepper has 200 steps per rvolution. Pacific Scientific make a nice 145 oz stepper and is priced under $ 120.00. These motor are over double the torque of stock motors. You only need to drill & ream the shaft for the pin. There are deals on ebay for similar steppers that can be had for less monet as well.

Dave

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Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

Terry Parker <vmax@...>
 

Well the Idea is to Use Mach because we already run it. It is a very
easy interface to use.

This unit will be a trainer for every one to practice and play with so
the extra power is not really needed.

Thanks Terry Parker




--- In Emco_cnc_users@..., "Terry Parker" <vmax@...> wrote:

Does anyone have a pinout of the PC5 drivers? I would like to
interface
Mach3 to the stock Drivers. Thanks Terry Parker


Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

capteod
 

--- In Emco_cnc_users@..., "Terry Parker" <vmax@...> wrote:

Does anyone have a pinout of the PC5 drivers? I would like to
interface
Mach3 to the stock Drivers. Thanks Terry Parker
Just a quick note, I tried to use the original motors and was
unsucessful they are variable reluctance motors and do not work out
very well. I second the mention of the MACH3, GECKO or other drives,
and using 200 stepper revelution motors. I purchased the new motors
for less than $30.00 each on EBAY. There are a few other drivers
available that cost less than the GECKo, and available on ebay ot the
net.

I just received a note from NEAL KNOPF, publisher of Home Shop
Machinist, Machinist Workshop and the new DIGITAL MACHINIST, that my
article on the conversion of the F1 CNC mill to use modern controls
and software is to be published and in it I explain the methodology
and advantages. I do not know which magazine it will be in, is not
clear from NEALs email but he wrote:


Introduction thru Phase Two are in Part One – Winter 2006 (Dec 20 mail
date)

Phase Three thru Phase Five are in Part Two – Spring 2007 (March 20
mail date)

Phase Six to end - Summer 2007 (June 20 mail date)

From this I think it will be in the NEW Digital Machinist magazine.

If you have any other questions, I can answer them offline.

Good Luck, the HARDWARE you are using is great and I suggest the best
small lathe you can buy. The MACH3 is GREAT. It works like a champ,
and I am featuring EMCO F1 in the article.

I have a second article in the works and it will be the lathe
conversion and will be using servo motors in lieu of steppers.

In addition it will include a newly designed 8 station turret. It
will be using the third axis to control the tool selection and will be
bidirectional in rotation. It is not a project fot the faint of
heart, but will make the machine a real CNC machinists wet dream. I
am testing the turret at this time and am finding that tool
positioning is within 0.01 degrees repeatability.

I am having trouble writing the code for the tool changing, but have
been promised assistance to get it going.


Emco 55 Milling M/C

geoff3881 <geoff.josey@...>
 

With a colleague we have aquired an Emco 55 mill manufactured in 1998
At present we do not have the PC with the RS423 card or the software.
being new to CNC we would appreciate any information on getting the
machine operational. It would be used to develop CNC experience and
then to manufacture small IC engine parts on a hobby basis.
Is Mach 3 software a good option and feasible ?


Re: Emco 55 Milling M/C

capteod
 

Just a quick note,  I have an older F1 and I converted it to use the MACH3 software.  When I approached EMCO they wanted $1500 for the interface card and over $250.00 for the software.  This machine is good solid and very capable.  My conversion is to be published by Mr. Neil Knopf, publisher of Home Shop Machinist, DIGITAL Machinist and other home hobbiest magazines.  It is a three part article the first part is to be published this year and I suspect it will be in DIGITAL MACHINIST.

My conversion was on an older F1 but the hardware is the same as on the PC55.  The cast iron frame of the machine weighs almost 400 pounds and is precise.  If I could find a new machine I would probably buy it.

If you have specific questions, contact me off-line.

Good luck and happy chip making:

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- In Emco_cnc_users@..., "geoff3881" wrote:
>
> With a colleague we have aquired an Emco 55 mill manufactured in 1998
> At present we do not have the PC with the RS423 card or the software.
> being new to CNC we would appreciate any information on getting the
> machine operational. It would be used to develop CNC experience and
> then to manufacture small IC engine parts on a hobby basis.
> Is Mach 3 software a good option and feasible ?
>


Re: Emco 55 Milling M/C

Geoff Josey <geoff.josey@...>
 

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. It's appreciated.
It looks as if you have already been down the conversion route and your article should be of great interest. As a starter, so that I avoid asking all the questions that are probably covered in your article, I wonder if you could advise the publication details. The magazines are not readily available in the UK, but I would like to subscribe.  I think the "Digital Machinist" is a new publication ? 
 
Many thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: capteod
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: [Emco_cnc_users] Re: Emco 55 Milling M/C

Just a quick note,  I have an older F1 and I converted it to use the MACH3 software.  When I approached EMCO they wanted $1500 for the interface card and over $250.00 for the software.  This machine is good solid and very capable.  My conversion is to be published by Mr. Neil Knopf, publisher of Home Shop Machinist, DIGITAL Machinist and other home hobbiest magazines.  It is a three part article the first part is to be published this year and I suspect it will be in DIGITAL MACHINIST.

My conversion was on an older F1 but the hardware is the same as on the PC55.  The cast iron frame of the machine weighs almost 400 pounds and is precise.  If I could find a new machine I would probably buy it.

If you have specific questions, contact me off-line.

Good luck and happy chip making:

 

 

 

 

 


--- In Emco_cnc_users@yahoogroups.com, "geoff3881" ...> wrote:
>
> With a colleague we have aquired an Emco 55 mill manufactured in 1998
> At present we do not have the PC with the RS423 card or the software.
> being new to CNC we would appreciate any information on getting the
> machine operational. It would be used to develop CNC experience and
> then to manufacture small IC engine parts on a hobby basis.
> Is Mach 3 software a good option and feasible ?
>


Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

cadewey@sprynet.com <cadewey@...>
 

Ron:
There is a local community college which has 3 of the standard mills and
also an F1P (production) with 26K of memory and has encoder feedback. They
also have a number of the lathe with the 4K boards. I have repaired
steppers, driver boards and one memory board on them but they are all a
little long in the tooth. They are mostly used for an introductory classes
for high school students. (The main shop has several HAAS CNC).

They are interested in the conversion to the Gecko drives and new Steppers.
Where would be a good place for me to check out the conversion you have
done with your F1 mills? Does anyone sell a complete setup?

[Original Message]
From: Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
To: <Emco_cnc_users@...>
Date: 11/5/2006 6:10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Emco_cnc_users] PC5 Stepper Driver

I know this is not what you were asking for , but -
Use Geckos and replace the 20+ year old motors .
It works GREAT that way, I have 3 like that .

Ron


Terry Parker wrote:

Does anyone have a pinout of the PC5 drivers? I would like to interface
Mach3 to the stock Drivers. Thanks Terry Parker




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
 

Hummm , let me think about this a bit .
Have you done any hobby CNC , parallel interface boards , Mach 3 CNC program ? Just to get an idea of where you are starting from.
Are the lathes the 5PC or the 5CNC with all the "stuff" sticking up on the back of the machine.
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.


cadewey@... wrote:


Ron:
There is a local community college which has 3 of the standard mills and
also an F1P (production) with 26K of memory and has encoder feedback. They
also have a number of the lathe with the 4K boards. I have repaired
steppers, driver boards and one memory board on them but they are all a
little long in the tooth. They are mostly used for an introductory classes
for high school students. (The main shop has several HAAS CNC).

They are interested in the conversion to the Gecko drives and new Steppers.
Where would be a good place for me to check out the conversion you have
done with your F1 mills? Does anyone sell a complete setup?

[Original Message]
From: Ron Kline <ronkline@... <mailto:ronkline%40alltel.net>>
To: <Emco_cnc_users@...
<mailto:Emco_cnc_users%40yahoogroups.com>>
Date: 11/5/2006 6:10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Emco_cnc_users] PC5 Stepper Driver

I know this is not what you were asking for , but -
Use Geckos and replace the 20+ year old motors .
It works GREAT that way, I have 3 like that .

Ron


Terry Parker wrote:

Does anyone have a pinout of the PC5 drivers? I would like to
interface
Mach3 to the stock Drivers. Thanks Terry Parker




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
 

Sorry I thought I was answering direct not on the list .

Ron Kline wrote:


Hummm , let me think about this a bit .
Have you done any hobby CNC , parallel interface boards , Mach 3 CNC
program ? Just to get an idea of where you are starting from.
Are the lathes the 5PC or the 5CNC with all the "stuff" sticking up on
the back of the machine.
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.


Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

David Rabenius
 

A local person did a complete conversion using Gecko's & Pac Sci motors. His name is Eugene Neighoff and his email address is: mfgguru@...  . His machine is a full 4 axis machine. He did an article for Home Shop Machinist and it is coming out in the new digital Machinist magazine in December.
 If you email him he will probally send you a copy.
 
Regards,
 
Dave                          

"cadewey@..." wrote:
Ron:
There is a local community college which has 3 of the standard mills and
also an F1P (production) with 26K of memory and has encoder feedback. They
also have a number of the lathe with the 4K boards. I have repaired
steppers, driver boards and one memory board on them but they are all a
little long in the tooth. They are mostly used for an introductory classes
for high school students. (The main shop has several HAAS CNC).

They are interested in the conversion to the Gecko drives and new Steppers.
Where would be a good place for me to check out the conversion you have
done with your F1 mills? Does anyone sell a complete setup?

> [Original Message]
> From: Ron Kline <ronkline@alltel.net>
> To: <Emco_cnc_users@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 11/5/2006 6:10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emco_cnc_users] PC5 Stepper Driver
>
> I know this is not what you were asking for , but -
> Use Geckos and replace the 20+ year old motors .
> It works GREAT that way, I have 3 like that .
>
> Ron
>
>
> Terry Parker wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have a pinout of the PC5 drivers? I would like to interface
> > Mach3 to the stock Drivers. Thanks Terry Parker
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



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Re: PC5 Stepper Driver

cadewey@sprynet.com <cadewey@...>
 

Well the brother to the Hobby CNC guy (dave in Ohio) works at my building
(Iowa) but I have not build any of his routers or bought his boards.. I am
taking classes in CNC for Fanuc type Haas G code, I am looking over the
Mach3 manual, but no I have not got a clue about how to proceed. I have
several PCs that might support XP and have 2 parallel ports. May have to
buy a faster CPU however as a 700Mh may not get to 35k pulses

Here, if you can open it, is a picture of the machines I would like to
upgrade.. There are 2 F1C mills and one F1P mill. There are a number of
Compact Lathes as you may see in the photo. I guess you would call them
5CNC. This is the equipment that the school started with many years ago
from the 80's, Now they are used for High School training classes. The
Community College full time program now has several Hass mini and VF mills,
a Charmelles Wirecut EDM and old AGIE Die Sink EDM . The Die Sink is the
only one I know much about having worked on its servo-tach controls, and
strange programming code. I started a class on CNC but had a good deal
more fun fixing the older equipment in the shop over the past two years.
At home, I am still turning cranks on my Rong Fu mill and Clausing lathe

[Original Message]
From: Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
To: <Emco_cnc_users@...>
Date: 11/13/2006 1:36:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Emco_cnc_users] PC5 Stepper Driver

Sorry I thought I was answering direct not on the list .

Ron Kline wrote:

Hummm , let me think about this a bit .
Have you done any hobby CNC , parallel interface boards , Mach 3 CNC
program ? Just to get an idea of where you are starting from.
Are the lathes the 5PC or the 5CNC with all the "stuff" sticking up on
the back of the machine.
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.



Yahoo! Groups Links



PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

Dick Riley <rich1tool@...>
 

I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag on the motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.
 
Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a paraller connection?
 
Can any body help?
Thanks Rich
 



Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.


Re: PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
 

Hi Dick
That mostly depends on your needs and the stepper driver that you are using.
The 65V. is not necessary except to achieve maximum RPM .
These motors will run from around 30 to 80Volts , using Gecko drives I would suggest around 50 to 70Volts bipolar for best power and unipolar for greatest RPM but a bit less power.

Ron Kline
American Precision Ceramics
Ky.


Dick Riley wrote:

I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag on the motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.
Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a paraller connection?
Can any body help?
Thanks Rich


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

Dick Riley <rich1tool@...>
 

Thanks Ron
Next Question: I'm thinking about convert my compact5 to used these motors.Will the power supply that in the system handel (2) of these motors? (One termnial check to be about 50 volts) and what Gecko drive should I use.
Thank
Dick Riley

Ron Kline wrote:
Hi Dick
That mostly depends on your needs and the stepper driver that you are using.
The 65V. is not necessary except to achieve maximum RPM .
These motors will run from around 30 to 80Volts , using Gecko drives I
would suggest around 50 to 70Volts bipolar for best power and unipolar
for greatest RPM but a bit less power.

Ron Kline
American Precision Ceramics
Ky.

Dick Riley wrote:
> I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag on the
> motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.
>
> Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a
> paraller connection?
>
> Can any body help?
> Thanks Rich
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers
> <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>.
> Try it now.
>



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Emco F1 CNC Serial cable Connections

iss_shahid <iss_shahid@...>
 

Hello
I have Emco F1 CNC. I need the Connection diagram for the EMCO CNC F1
machine. please help me
thanks


Emco F1 CNC Serial cable Connections

iss_shahid <iss_shahid@...>
 

Hello
I have Emco F1 CNC. I need the Connection diagram for the EMCO CNC F1
machine. please help me
thanks


EMCO F1 CNC Serial cable

iss_shahid <iss_shahid@...>
 

Hello
I need the interfacing cable for the EMCO F1 cnc machine
Please help me

Thanks


Re: PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
 

Hi
Yep, the power supply works fine .There is a plug on the bottom with the 50V and 12V
Use the Gecko 202 or the new 203.
Go to the Yahoo group emcocompact5users and join , in the photos section you will find one called "rons conversion" photos of one of my conversions using the stock PS an interface board the Gecko 202 drivers Mach3 (free to use until you are ready to buy )and Pacific Scientific motors from eBay ( $25 each ).
I have 3 of the 5PS's setup this way and they run great , on one I hold +.0005 -.0000 all day long and one runs +.001 -.0000 all day , the third one just misc. whatever whenever needed . If I remember right you will end up with 24,000steps per inch in Z and 48,000 steps per inch in Y (diameter)
I have 2 of them hooked up so the program turns on the spindle and mist coolant on and shuts it down at the end ( this is REALLY nice)
I have also been able to sell the boards and motors that you will remove for enough on eBay to pay for most of the conversion.(my first ones came to more than the conversion)
If you need better photos or help let me know.
PS. I used the Campbell board on this one but it is a bit of over kill the one from CandCNC works fine and is cheaper.
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.

Dick Riley wrote:

Thanks Ron
Next Question: I'm thinking about convert my compact5 to used these motors.Will the power supply that in the system handel (2) of these motors? (One termnial check to be about 50 volts) and what Gecko drive should I use.
Thank
Dick Riley

*/Ron Kline <ronkline@...>/* wrote:

Hi Dick
That mostly depends on your needs and the stepper driver that you
are using.
The 65V. is not necessary except to achieve maximum RPM .
These motors will run from around 30 to 80Volts , using Gecko
drives I
would suggest around 50 to 70Volts bipolar for best power and
unipolar
for greatest RPM but a bit less power.

Ron Kline
American Precision Ceramics
Ky.

Dick Riley wrote:
> I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag
on the
> motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.
>
> Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a
> paraller connection?
>
> Can any body help?
> Thanks Rich
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers
>
<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx
<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>>.

> Try it now.
>


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Re: PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

cadewey@sprynet.com <cadewey@...>
 

Ron, since you have done some of these so you might be the one to ask.
How do you pick a torque for the Compact5 or for any lathe? Besides the
Emco, I would also like to convert a Harbor freight combo and possibly a
Rong Fu mill for CNC. The lead screws would eventually be Ball Screw so
the load of the thread would be minimal. I assume the stepper would be
direct drive to the screw. Can a torque be measured empirically by making
a heavy cut?

The steppers on the Emco are a Warner Electric variable reluctance unipolar
stepper # SN-072-0060-RA 2 amp -9 Volt probably on a 23 frame. I suppose
I could try to stall one and measure that torque.


[Original Message]
From: Ron Kline <ronkline@...>
To: <Emco_cnc_users@...>
Date: 12/3/2006 9:19:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Emco_cnc_users] PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply
Volting)

Hi Dick
That mostly depends on your needs and the stepper driver that you are
using.
The 65V. is not necessary except to achieve maximum RPM .
These motors will run from around 30 to 80Volts , using Gecko drives I
would suggest around 50 to 70Volts bipolar for best power and unipolar
for greatest RPM but a bit less power.

Ron Kline
American Precision Ceramics
Ky.


Dick Riley wrote:
I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag on the
motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.

Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a
paraller connection?

Can any body help?
Thanks Rich



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers
<http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1
NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>.
Try it now.



Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: PowerMax ll Stepping Motor (Power Supply Volting)

Dick Riley <rich1tool@...>
 

Thank for the information.
 
I'm going to convert the lathe as soon as I can fine the time.
I think I will wait and get the Gecko drive (203) which in available Dec. 22.
May have more question after I get in to it.
Thanks again
Rich Riley


Ron Kline wrote:
Hi
Yep, the power supply works fine .There is a plug on the bottom with the
50V and 12V
Use the Gecko 202 or the new 203.
Go to the Yahoo group emcocompact5users and join , in the photos section
you will find one called "rons conversion" photos of one of my
conversions using the stock PS an interface board the Gecko 202 drivers
Mach3 (free to use until you are ready to buy )and Pacific Scientific
motors from eBay ( $25 each ).
I have 3 of the 5PS's setup this way and they run great , on one I hold
+.0005 -.0000 all day long and one runs +.001 -.0000 all day , the third
one just misc. whatever whenever needed . If I remember right you will
end up with 24,000steps per inch in Z and 48,000 steps per inch in Y
(diameter)
I have 2 of them hooked up so the program turns on the spindle and mist
coolant on and shuts it down at the end ( this is REALLY nice)
I have also been able to sell the boards and motors that you will remove
for enough on eBay to pay for most of the conversion.(my first ones came
to more than the conversion)
If you need better photos or help let me know.
PS. I used the Campbell board on this one but it is a bit of over kill
the one from CandCNC works fine and is cheaper.
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.

Dick Riley wrote:
> Thanks Ron
> Next Question: I'm thinking about convert my compact5 to used these
> motors.Will the power supply that in the system handel (2) of these
> motors? (One termnial check to be about 50 volts) and what Gecko drive
> should I use.
> Thank
> Dick Riley
>
> */Ron Kline <ronkline@alltel.net>/* wrote:
>
> Hi Dick
> That mostly depends on your needs and the stepper driver that you
> are using.
> The 65V. is not necessary except to achieve maximum RPM .
> These motors will run from around 30 to 80Volts , using Gecko
> drives I
> would suggest around 50 to 70Volts bipolar for best power and
> unipolar
> for greatest RPM but a bit less power.
>
> Ron Kline
> American Precision Ceramics
> Ky.
>
> Dick Riley wrote:
> > I have 2 Model P22NRXB-LDN-PD-OO, 1.8 Deg. Motors. The Name tag
> on the
> > motor called for 65 voltage dc., 2.3 Amp. Bipolar Series.
> >
> > Question-- What voltage to use for the power supply if I use a
> > paraller connection?
> >
> > Can any body help?
> > Thanks Rich
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers
> >
> <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx
> <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>>.
>
> > Try it now.
> >
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=45083/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta>
>
>
--
Ron Kline

American Precision Ceramics .. (Industrial ceramics)
Central Ky.


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