Date   
Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

wild_kow
 

I've got the full electrical schematics, those were what failed to upload.

I will scan as PDF and put them in the files section tomorrow.

Cheers

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 8:02:01 PM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
Thanks wild_kow, I'm trying to get a grip on this thing. When I spoke to emco they sent me the same info that was on the two pics that uploaded. If there are more pics that you feel are helpful I'd sure use them for that.  

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Ok so I couldn't devote time to checking the PC Turn 55 with multimeter at the moment do I tried to hook up the PC Mill 55 that I have to see if it would function. 

I get more led lights inside that cabinet yet still get the ACIF 8140 error. I'm thinking this may be a configuration issue? 

What is needed to run these machines? From general observations I take it there are two bits of software needed. One is WinNC that handles the coding and the other is WinConfig where you set the I/O details for communication between machine and PC. 

Is this correct so far? 

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Thanks wild_kow. I sure appreciate your taking the time to help with that. I suspect this is gonna be a small issue that perhaps I'm unaware of that will solve this problem. Thanks for the help guys. I cant wait to churn out some parts when these things get going.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

wild_kow
 

You also need the MSD disc specific to each of your machines. That can be requested from Emco if you do not have the correct one.

Possibly there is a parameter in the MSD files which relates to the version of access controller fitted.

The fact that you get the same error message from both machines suggests there is something incorrect in the PC side of the setup.

You can use the same RS card in the PC for the series 55 machines and same installation of WinNC software but the MSD disk for each machine has to be installed so when you start up WinNC you are asked to choose between mill and lathe.

It might be deleting WinNC and reinstalling it.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 10:13:48 PM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
Ok so I couldn't devote time to checking the PC Turn 55 with multimeter at the moment do I tried to hook up the PC Mill 55 that I have to see if it would function. 

I get more led lights inside that cabinet yet still get the ACIF 8140 error. I'm thinking this may be a configuration issue? 

What is needed to run these machines? From general observations I take it there are two bits of software needed. One is WinNC that handles the coding and the other is WinConfig where you set the I/O details for communication between machine and PC. 

Is this correct so far? 

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

Are the PC the original supplied with the machine? If they ran before, there is no reason they shouldn't, now unless something has changed.

In C:\winnc32 there will be a directory with the machine name, something like Turn55. I think the software checks the MSD matches the machine serial number, but I think this usually gives a different error like "MSD Invalid" if there is a problem. Again, if it hasn't talked to the machine it can't check.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

These are the original computers that ran the machines. My thinking was the same. If these ran before, there should be no reason for them not to function now unless there has been a change.

I think it less likely that both cards in the PC's are faulty and giving the error. It Is far more likely that some setting is not correct. I do not have any software disks or manuals that came with these machines. Everything I have so far has been downloaded from emco-world or forum links that I have searched. 

What is this "MSD disk" I need to have a hard copy in order to run the machine? Does emco mail it to me or is this something I can find online, download, and make a disk out of. Its gonna be hard to find a 3.44 floppy that's for sure lol.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

I didnt mention this before but each machine has it's own pc. They each have their own installation of WinNC and WinConfig. I played with WinConfig options a bit to look for possible settings screen and there are some that indicate communication between pc and emco but nothing I knew to change. Perhaps the MSD disk is all that is needed.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

wild_kow
 

One question which is probably stupid but if each machine has its own PC, is the correct PC connected to the correct machine because both machines show the same symptoms? The WinNC installations are different.

When you install WinNC you need the 3.5 inch floppies (you can still buy blank ones). Early on, the computer asks for the MSD so it knows what files to install, then you continue using the specifically requested disks from the set as necessary. You must make  at least two backups of the Emco disks because they can easily get corrupted.

It sounds as if there is a PC installation issue and a new installation may well be a sensible route but you do need the proper disks.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 3:37:59 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
I didnt mention this before but each machine has it's own pc. They each have their own installation of WinNC and WinConfig. I played with WinConfig options a bit to look for possible settings screen and there are some that indicate communication between pc and emco but nothing I knew to change. Perhaps the MSD disk is all that is needed.

New file uploaded to Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io

Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io Notification <Emco-CNC-Users+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io group.

Uploaded By: wild_kow <jwild@...>

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

New file uploaded to Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io

Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io Notification <Emco-CNC-Users+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io group.

Uploaded By: wild_kow <jwild@...>

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

If you think the PC are mixed up between machines, in  C:\Winnc32 there is a folder with the machine name, ie.,  \Turn55. In that directory you'll see the MSD files. The PRG directory will contain programs, sub programs for canned cycles, and several other files. There is a WNCFG or similar directory, I think those are data for the winconfig program for options and settings. But basically, there is nothing to be done in any of these folders unless you're copying programs in explorer vs. the control.

By "if something has changed" I mean that unless you changed or deleted the MSD, it will still be configured for the machine. These settings don't go away by themselves. I don't think I've ever dealt with the CMOS IRQ assignments, but it's possible if the CMOS battery has been dead, these need to be checked. This is about the only thing that could have changed "by itself".

I don't have install disks. Emco did send me the install files for the CM155 I'm working on, but I got the original PC running. I do however keep cloned HDD for my Emco machines. No install needed.

3.5" Floppy disks? I have a stack for transferring programs to the machines using a USB 3.5" drive on my main PC. I was worried installing USB drivers would conflict with IRQ assignments, so I never tried. Recently,  I've been told you can install USB drivers on the W95/98 AC95 machines and use a USB stick to move files using explorer.

Basically, if you moved an axis before, this means everything was working, even if you had no idea what you were doing. It should not take much to get going again assuming all components are working. Check fuses and measure the 24V output. Checking voltage at the power supply output connector is a good place to start.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 1:17 AM wild_kow <jwild@...> wrote:
One question which is probably stupid but if each machine has its own PC, is the correct PC connected to the correct machine because both machines show the same symptoms? The WinNC installations are different.

When you install WinNC you need the 3.5 inch floppies (you can still buy blank ones). Early on, the computer asks for the MSD so it knows what files to install, then you continue using the specifically requested disks from the set as necessary. You must make  at least two backups of the Emco disks because they can easily get corrupted.

It sounds as if there is a PC installation issue and a new installation may well be a sensible route but you do need the proper disks.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181=hotmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 3:37:59 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
I didnt mention this before but each machine has it's own pc. They each have their own installation of WinNC and WinConfig. I played with WinConfig options a bit to look for possible settings screen and there are some that indicate communication between pc and emco but nothing I knew to change. Perhaps the MSD disk is all that is needed.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Looked at the file system in the WinNC folder. PC's are on correct machine. One is a very old 386 that has no usb ports. I would need to buy a usb card for that old system for usb functionality. Not if it interferes with IRQ assignments.

I know it can get quirky the more software is being run. Especially on older limited machines.

Anyway, that Avenue has not yielded any progress so moving onto the 24v check. I will do after I write emco for MSD files.

Will post results later tonight with pics.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

Recieved a response from emco-world. They said they would send MSD files and licensing info although I would have to pay for the licensing. Does this sound right to you guys? I believe they are asking for payment for licensing for newer version of WinNC. Did anyone ever pay for theirs and how much did it cost?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Checked the AC 95 board with multimeter. Got very low voltage readings on the connectors in the pic. Reading was .04 DC on the 20Volt setting on multimeter. I would expect this in a standby mode. Not sure if that is normal.

How are we coming along on the electrical schematics wild_kow? Would you send me the pdf you mentioned when you have some time?

Other connectors either read 0 or -0 when I checked for voltage.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 
Edited

Got 0.0 or -0.0 a couple wires had low voltage 0.02 DC on these connectors labeled by blue circles again all indicative of standby power.
 I checked the transformer on the back panel and connectors read:
labeled 0 reading 0, labeled 110 reading 22.7 AC, labeled 230 reading 48.7 AC, labeled -24 reading 0DC,  labeled +24 reading 28.3DC, lebeld -30 reading 0DC, labeled +30 reading 32.7DC
Fuses on the transformer were both good.

Transformer seemed to be ok with the 0 voltages indicative of standby? I'm not sure here.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

wild_kow
 

Hi,

I uploaded those to the website last week, you should have received a message from groups.io informing you. I uploaded for the 55 and 50 machines in two new respective folders.

I hope you can make sense of them for your problem.

John W


From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of User0n3 via Groups.Io <chico_181@...>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 8:53:29 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues
 
Checked the AC 95 board with multimeter. Got very low voltage readings on the connectors in the pic. Reading was .04 DC on the 20Volt setting on multimeter. I would expect this in a standby mode. Not sure if that is normal.

How are we coming along on the electrical schematics wild_kow? Would you send me the pdf you mentioned when you have some time?

Other connectors either read 0 or -0 when I checked for voltage.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

Oh ok I was just re-reading the thread and saw where you mentioned putting them on the files section. Thanks for that. I will get them and look them over tonight. So far nothing stands out as the source of the issue, may be a software thing as mentioned. I dont have money to spend on trying the software route only to find it is a hardware issue. I dont like the idea of selling the machines because I cant figure out how to get them functional. I will keep trying with help from the group. Thank you gentlemen for helping.

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

User0n3
 

I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

MSD is not the issue.

Transformers don't go into standby. To get a proper reading for transformer input measure across 0 and 110V and 220V, not from PE (earth). Though, with normal DC outputs I don't think this is your issue.

This post contains a link for schematics for your machine. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/27319-emco-pc-turn-55-upgrade?start=30#77551

If we look at 1DA0.C1 we see the transformer. The next page 1DA0.M1 shows a filter between the trafo and AC95 input connector A2-X100 (pins 3,4). I'd check that next.

btw, the photos of the cabinet are tiny


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?

Re: Trying again to run Emco PC Turn 55 having issues

rcflyer
 

Practical Machinist will not be of much help. They generally don't play with machines this small (toys). Having looked everywhere for help with the small and less small Emco machines, this group and what was/is(?) the Yahoo Emco group with many of the same members will be most knowledgeable about the electronics and control.

These machines share nothing in common with machines running Fanuc/Siemens, etc., controls. Troubleshooting power is much the same, but other than Emco owners, not many are specifically familiar. Numbers of these machines are very low.

Follow the schematic and find where power drops out. Check the fuses and reseat every connector. I resorted to reflowing every connector pin in one of my machines to solve an intermittent problem and finally found a pin trace that lifted from the board.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:01 AM User0n3 <chico_181@...> wrote:
I was playing with the software and it has an option to make an MSD disk. Is this all I have to do to have the MSD data that I need to run the machine?