Date   
Re: WINNC

androidge23@...
 

Thank you to marty for sending me the disk files. I just tried fresh computer, fresh format, fresh OS, everything as manual indicated. same error... Keyboard disconnects via key hold still also. so Im 99% sure everything is fine hardware.
The other 1% could be controller in the machine or this pesky MSD disk. The card that cables back to the db9 connector output does not light up at all in any LED's. everything is plugged in nice and tight. anyone else machine in idle not light up the controller card? if thats not it I discovered the MSD disk label has a number on it that resembled my machine sticker. behold! they do not match... I am 100% convinced this thing was not "running" as purchased if that be the case. I opened up the file on the MSD disk and explored the data in the DAT files via notepad. It appears there is a file $msd$ which typically is set up protocol in old software, inside it has the same number as the sticker on the disk and a whole lot of what appears to be commands and values. if one were to call emco and request the proper MSD disk for $$$ they likely just change this file to mesh with your serial number. like an old school USB dongle for high end software. I had to order more floppy disks. But I will update with what I find. I bet apples to oranges I can crack this stupid file and get it working.

Re: WINNC

androidge23@...
 

I have tried other cables in the set I received, even bought new ones. no dice

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

marty_in_mesa
 

There are many sources for VFD's. Based on horse power size. Automationdirect.com, look at the sensorless vector GS3. 
There are many others out there. I did not look to see what they charge for their drive. I would inquire if the motor you chose and the VFD are a matched pair.


Marty

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 8:00 AM KR Lynn <krlynn@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 07:41 am, marty_in_mesa wrote:
I would buy the VFD elsewhere, or inquire about the pricing for it.
Thanks for the reply, Marty. Why would you buy the VFD elsewhere? What price would you expect to pay for one?

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 07:41 am, marty_in_mesa wrote:
I would buy the VFD elsewhere, or inquire about the pricing for it.
Thanks for the reply, Marty. Why would you buy the VFD elsewhere? What price would you expect to pay for one?

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

marty_in_mesa
 

If the motor suits  your needs, I would only ask them if it is an INVERTER Duty rated motor.
I would buy the VFD elsewhere, or inquire about the pricing for it. Ensure it takes the typical 0-10VDC analog signal input

Marty

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 7:11 AM KR Lynn <krlynn@...> wrote:
I found this motor, which is available with a 63C frame and B14 face: http://www.tvtamerica.com/Metric-AC-Motors/3ph-ul-csa-ce-atex.htm

And this: http://www.tvtamerica.com/TVT-Drives.htm (see TVT Drive 1 at bottom). See also 
See also: http://www.tvtamerica.com/Smart-Motors.htm

Any thoughts?

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

I found this motor, which is available with a 63C frame and B14 face: http://www.tvtamerica.com/Metric-AC-Motors/3ph-ul-csa-ce-atex.htm

And this: http://www.tvtamerica.com/TVT-Drives.htm (see TVT Drive 1 at bottom). See also 
See also: http://www.tvtamerica.com/Smart-Motors.htm

Any thoughts?

Re: WINNC

wild_kow
 

One thought, is the cable good?


John




From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of androidge23@... <androidge23@...>
Sent: 06 July 2018 05:10
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] WINNC
 
well, I tried a new computer I bought off craigslist. A Bit newer than the one I was given in age. everything still looks and acts the same as before, even tho this one does not have the funky 90 degree angle ISA slot adapter and does not have on board video, which I attributed any further issues to be. Im pretty sure the software is botched or the card is dead. I do not see how as it was purchased "in working order". any fuses hidden away inside I should check?
It appears the actual communication board inside does not light up, while everything else does.

Re: WINNC

androidge23@...
 

well, I tried a new computer I bought off craigslist. A Bit newer than the one I was given in age. everything still looks and acts the same as before, even tho this one does not have the funky 90 degree angle ISA slot adapter and does not have on board video, which I attributed any further issues to be. Im pretty sure the software is botched or the card is dead. I do not see how as it was purchased "in working order". any fuses hidden away inside I should check?
It appears the actual communication board inside does not light up, while everything else does.

Re: WINNC

wild_kow
 

You're welcome.


I should have mentioned but you have just reminded me about processors. Mine runs on a Pentium MMX but the Emco vintage is around the '86 processor series. Later Pentiums lost the ISA slots.


John




From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of marty_in_mesa <marty.escarcega@...>
Sent: 03 July 2018 12:16
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] WINNC
 
Thank you for sharing your experience with the RS485 card and PCs you tried. 
Mine works with an old Compaq deskpro 486/DX2-66
Marty

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 6:11 AM wild_kow <jwild@...> wrote:

Marty,


The RS485 card must be installed in a period PC circa Windows 95 or Windows 98 with a full length ISA slot plus one for a video card, so ideally two or three, see below.


The PC should be a basic model with no built in onboard features such as video card. I had troubles with conflicts on numerous PC's because even disabling the onboard features in BIOS or in Windows is no guarantee that something else will not conflict. Reserving memory etc as stated in the manual is not a guarantee either. Sound/gaming port cards are also a no-no. LAN cards can also throw up problems.


Finding conflicts is frustrating. I bought two identical Windows 98 computers, one for my PC50 mill and one for my PC55 lathe. After spending many hours, disabling every onboard feature including video and purchasing a video card I got the mill to work with its RS232 card. Mirroring the PC for the lathe with RS485 card did not work. I tried every combination that I could think of but to no avail. I bought another PC as above and it worked first time.


I had been lent compatible PC's for both the mill and for the lathe so I was lucky and could study the setup. The one for the lathe had gaming software and a joystick port on the serial card. That card had some keypress conflicts with the keyboard but I could not take the card out because the PC would not boot without it. I did not want to completely reinstall software on a loan computer.


When searching for a suitable PC make sure the video port is on a card rather than grouped with the other outlets from the motherboard.


Good luck!


John




From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of marty_in_mesa <marty.escarcega@...>
Sent: 02 July 2018 12:50
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] WINNC
 
While I am no expert, it's my understanding that the  RS485 card needs to be installed in a slot in the computer that has a memory address reserved or configurable for it. 
Can anyone that has done this confirm or elaborate?
I have the manuals, but am away from home for a few more days.
Marty

Re: WINNC

marty_in_mesa
 

Thank you for sharing your experience with the RS485 card and PCs you tried. 
Mine works with an old Compaq deskpro 486/DX2-66
Marty

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 6:11 AM wild_kow <jwild@...> wrote:

Marty,


The RS485 card must be installed in a period PC circa Windows 95 or Windows 98 with a full length ISA slot plus one for a video card, so ideally two or three, see below.


The PC should be a basic model with no built in onboard features such as video card. I had troubles with conflicts on numerous PC's because even disabling the onboard features in BIOS or in Windows is no guarantee that something else will not conflict. Reserving memory etc as stated in the manual is not a guarantee either. Sound/gaming port cards are also a no-no. LAN cards can also throw up problems.


Finding conflicts is frustrating. I bought two identical Windows 98 computers, one for my PC50 mill and one for my PC55 lathe. After spending many hours, disabling every onboard feature including video and purchasing a video card I got the mill to work with its RS232 card. Mirroring the PC for the lathe with RS485 card did not work. I tried every combination that I could think of but to no avail. I bought another PC as above and it worked first time.


I had been lent compatible PC's for both the mill and for the lathe so I was lucky and could study the setup. The one for the lathe had gaming software and a joystick port on the serial card. That card had some keypress conflicts with the keyboard but I could not take the card out because the PC would not boot without it. I did not want to completely reinstall software on a loan computer.


When searching for a suitable PC make sure the video port is on a card rather than grouped with the other outlets from the motherboard.


Good luck!


John




From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of marty_in_mesa <marty.escarcega@...>
Sent: 02 July 2018 12:50
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] WINNC
 
While I am no expert, it's my understanding that the  RS485 card needs to be installed in a slot in the computer that has a memory address reserved or configurable for it. 
Can anyone that has done this confirm or elaborate?
I have the manuals, but am away from home for a few more days.
Marty

Re: WINNC

wild_kow
 

Marty,


The RS485 card must be installed in a period PC circa Windows 95 or Windows 98 with a full length ISA slot plus one for a video card, so ideally two or three, see below.


The PC should be a basic model with no built in onboard features such as video card. I had troubles with conflicts on numerous PC's because even disabling the onboard features in BIOS or in Windows is no guarantee that something else will not conflict. Reserving memory etc as stated in the manual is not a guarantee either. Sound/gaming port cards are also a no-no. LAN cards can also throw up problems.


Finding conflicts is frustrating. I bought two identical Windows 98 computers, one for my PC50 mill and one for my PC55 lathe. After spending many hours, disabling every onboard feature including video and purchasing a video card I got the mill to work with its RS232 card. Mirroring the PC for the lathe with RS485 card did not work. I tried every combination that I could think of but to no avail. I bought another PC as above and it worked first time.


I had been lent compatible PC's for both the mill and for the lathe so I was lucky and could study the setup. The one for the lathe had gaming software and a joystick port on the serial card. That card had some keypress conflicts with the keyboard but I could not take the card out because the PC would not boot without it. I did not want to completely reinstall software on a loan computer.


When searching for a suitable PC make sure the video port is on a card rather than grouped with the other outlets from the motherboard.


Good luck!


John




From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io <Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io> on behalf of marty_in_mesa <marty.escarcega@...>
Sent: 02 July 2018 12:50
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] WINNC
 
While I am no expert, it's my understanding that the  RS485 card needs to be installed in a slot in the computer that has a memory address reserved or configurable for it. 
Can anyone that has done this confirm or elaborate?
I have the manuals, but am away from home for a few more days.
Marty

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

marty_in_mesa
 

Yellow compact cnc 5's.


On Mon, Jul 2, 2018, 6:51 PM KR Lynn <krlynn@...> wrote:
Marty, were your lathes Compact 5 PCs or Compact 5 CNCs. The CNCs all had DC motors. The PC versions (which have a much smaller control box) ran on IBM PCs loaded with DOS 3.* and had single Phase AC motors (at least those sold in the US). 

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

So sorry, you're right Sharp.Shooter. It's a B3/B14 face. Not sure how I got that mangled. 

Re HP, if I typed 5, I meant .5 as in 1/2. I need new glasses.

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

Marty, were your lathes Compact 5 PCs or Compact 5 CNCs. The CNCs all had DC motors. The PC versions (which have a much smaller control box) ran on IBM PCs loaded with DOS 3.* and had single Phase AC motors (at least those sold in the US). 

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

Sharp.Shooter
 

I have purchased the 63 B14 (not 34) motor 0.37kw as a replacement for my AC simply cause stock one couldn’t be used with VFD I also purchased. I didn’t mount it yet, or tried it, but I did check on mounting to flange, and it was OK as much as I recall. Also, I believe a 5HP is way too much power for such a little machine. On latter question I don’t know the answer too.

Stefan

 

From: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io [mailto:Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io] On Behalf Of marty_in_mesa
Sent: 3 July, 2018 12:31 AM
To: Emco-CNC-Users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Emco-CNC-Users] Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

 

I can't answer the question on start and run caps. I have never ER had the Emco lathe with an AC motor. The half dozen or so I've had over the years all had their DC motors.

 

Marty

 

On Jul 2, 2018 10:58 AM, "KR Lynn" <krlynn@...> wrote:

Thanks, Marty. 

FWIW, the 63 B34, 3-phase, 2-pole (3600 RPM), 5 HP motor I've found that should work as an easy replacement for the EC5 PC's original motor is a Lafert (Italian-made) Model ST63L2 with a list price of $393. Leeson also makes a 63 B34 3-phase motor, but only 1/3 HP. The original motors were rated at 2/3 HP. Lafert also offers a 4-pole (1800 RPM) 63 B34 motor, but not above 1/3 HP.

If for some reason the ST63L2 doesn't sound like a good candidate for my purposes, please let me know. I'm not ready to pull the trigger (not driven by need yet), but I would like to identify the best available options.

Stupid question, but are both run and start capacitors used with the original single phase AC spindle motors in EC5 PC lathes? I was asked and didn't know. 

 

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

marty_in_mesa
 

I can't answer the question on start and run caps. I have never ER had the Emco lathe with an AC motor. The half dozen or so I've had over the years all had their DC motors.

Marty

On Jul 2, 2018 10:58 AM, "KR Lynn" <krlynn@...> wrote:

Thanks, Marty. 

FWIW, the 63 B34, 3-phase, 2-pole (3600 RPM), 5 HP motor I've found that should work as an easy replacement for the EC5 PC's original motor is a Lafert (Italian-made) Model ST63L2 with a list price of $393. Leeson also makes a 63 B34 3-phase motor, but only 1/3 HP. The original motors were rated at 2/3 HP. Lafert also offers a 4-pole (1800 RPM) 63 B34 motor, but not above 1/3 HP.

If for some reason the ST63L2 doesn't sound like a good candidate for my purposes, please let me know. I'm not ready to pull the trigger (not driven by need yet), but I would like to identify the best available options.

Stupid question, but are both run and start capacitors used with the original single phase AC spindle motors in EC5 PC lathes? I was asked and didn't know. 


Re: WINNC

androidge23@...
 

I have the manual, it states to change jumpers to match a memeory id suitable. The computer provided was claimed to be working when I bought it. I didn’t want to mess with it to much. I did however try to locate an id in the bios and system info but nothing shows. System in 98 states no cards are installed but if I hold down the 232 to 485 change buttons on the keyboard while winnc is open it visually shows disconnect. Makes me think that it’s fine. Changing ports on the card can replicate that, so I think the card is fine, the install was likely botched but I was not provided the original disks for some reason.

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

Thanks, Marty. 

FWIW, the 63 B34, 3-phase, 2-pole (3600 RPM), 5 HP motor I've found that should work as an easy replacement for the EC5 PC's original motor is a Lafert (Italian-made) Model ST63L2 with a list price of $393. Leeson also makes a 63 B34 3-phase motor, but only 1/3 HP. The original motors were rated at 2/3 HP. Lafert also offers a 4-pole (1800 RPM) 63 B34 motor, but not above 1/3 HP.

If for some reason the ST63L2 doesn't sound like a good candidate for my purposes, please let me know. I'm not ready to pull the trigger (not driven by need yet), but I would like to identify the best available options.

Stupid question, but are both run and start capacitors used with the original single phase AC spindle motors in EC5 PC lathes? I was asked and didn't know. 

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

marty_in_mesa
 

3 phase motors can be controlled by Acorn with many VFDs. I suggest sensorless vector VFDs. I'm experimenting with Huan Yang GT drives. They have good support, I've heard they are at the top of the heap as far as Chinese VFDs go. We'll see.


On Mon, Jul 2, 2018, 9:19 AM KR Lynn <krlynn@...> wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I need to figure out how to use groups.io (e.g., quoting). Apologies for any fumbling.
 Did you do the Linux conversion? If so, you should be ok. I realize the space is tight and you can't accommodate a full size 3 phase motor.

I for sure need help, Marty. We've talked. I'm just waiting for your return.

There really wasn't any physical conversion required for LinuxCNC as there is for Mach 3 (i.e., clipping out an octal latch). I'm perfectly happy with LinuxCNC and running these machines as originally made. The problem, as you know, is that stuff wears out and/or fails (motors, PC boards, etc.). I can run these machines. And I've taken them down and put them back together on the front side. But I'm not much good on the control side. Schematics are mostly Greek to me. I've can test for continuity and resistance, and have replaced fuses, bridge rectifiers, and a PC interface board (to restore functionality sacrificed to a Mach 3 conversion), but that's about as far as I can go. I also fried at least one board. I want to use this project to learn, but I don't want (and can't afford) to learn everything the hard way.

There are 1/3 and 1/2 HP 3-phase, metric motor with the same frame size and flange as the original EC5 PC motors available. My understanding is that they can be used with a KB Electronics KBMA-24D AC motor control 9533 to achieve variable speed. But I'm not clear about whether that variable speed can be controlled via Acorn. If so, that would be great. Constant surface speed would be a plus. If not, DRO would be acceptable.

Hi, Jasen. We've talked. I'm all over the stuff you've posted. Thanks!

Re: Compact 5 PC retrofitting project

KR Lynn
 

Thanks for the replies. I need to figure out how to use groups.io (e.g., quoting). Apologies for any fumbling.
 Did you do the Linux conversion? If so, you should be ok. I realize the space is tight and you can't accommodate a full size 3 phase motor.

I for sure need help, Marty. We've talked. I'm just waiting for your return.

There really wasn't any physical conversion required for LinuxCNC as there is for Mach 3 (i.e., clipping out an octal latch). I'm perfectly happy with LinuxCNC and running these machines as originally made. The problem, as you know, is that stuff wears out and/or fails (motors, PC boards, etc.). I can run these machines. And I've taken them down and put them back together on the front side. But I'm not much good on the control side. Schematics are mostly Greek to me. I've can test for continuity and resistance, and have replaced fuses, bridge rectifiers, and a PC interface board (to restore functionality sacrificed to a Mach 3 conversion), but that's about as far as I can go. I also fried at least one board. I want to use this project to learn, but I don't want (and can't afford) to learn everything the hard way.

There are 1/3 and 1/2 HP 3-phase, metric motor with the same frame size and flange as the original EC5 PC motors available. My understanding is that they can be used with a KB Electronics KBMA-24D AC motor control 9533 to achieve variable speed. But I'm not clear about whether that variable speed can be controlled via Acorn. If so, that would be great. Constant surface speed would be a plus. If not, DRO would be acceptable.

Hi, Jasen. We've talked. I'm all over the stuff you've posted. Thanks!